Thanks for reply, was told this by the Council today as had meeting with them, was actually quite helpful but it remains to be seen whether the court process works: "The magistrates can reopen a decided liability order matter using common law powers to correct an injustice which prejudices the taxpayer, but the application to the magistrates must be made promptly by the taxpayer. Such things which would be allowable could be: The taxpayer was unable to attend court because of a sudden illness, etc and has a potentially valid defence; For whatever reason the taxpayer did not have notice of the hearing plus a potential defence; The taxpayer requested an adjournment but the magistrates were not made aware of that, plus a potential defence etc; See cases such as Liverpool CC v Pleroma Distribution Ltd (QBD) 2002 and R (Newham LBC) v Stratford magistrates’ Court and Selwin Dublin (QBD) 2008" I will try again with Magistrates court via letter and see how this progresses. Thanks

Thanks but that is what I did. Am going to write letter to Magistrates to reopen and to ombudsman.

Hi All, Anybody have any idea the correct process? Thanks

Cant get my head around this. Went to high court to submit application to overturn liability order. Was refused to accept applications and was told to go to Magistrates court to deal with. Went to Magistrates court, they then also refused my application on the basis that liability orders are not dealt with there. They said to formally complain to the council. I went back to High Court, they were scratching their heads. They said I need to get legal advice, I said been to CAB. business debtline and legal advice and none of them knows the correct process. I said I haven't got money for legal advice and need to know the correct process, and no one could help. Was strange! Not sure what to do here

Sorry just realised what you meant as last question. I recieved stat demand in July, then put in application to set aside within 21 days. But the hearing for this was on the Friday just gone. Therefore I am wondering am I able to still apply to set aside again or to dispute the amount? Or does everything have to be filed within 21 days regardless whether you were waiting for a hearing or not? Thanks again

I left it so long because I was not living at the address where the post was going to and I only got some post forwarded to me. It dawned on me when I seen the evidence of the stat demand hearing of all the liability orders in place already. Not sure if this is justifiable though. Thanks

The other thing is if appeal to magistrates decision, should it not be to County Court? The stat demand shows 17k debt, but the defence evidence produced at the courts to set aside stat demand only shows liabilities adding to 11k. I am wondering is it too late put in defence to stat demand on disputing amount as the 21 days has lapsed (July was served) But the hearing was Friday when Judge dismissed to set aside on basis of insolvency 13.4.3. "Where the debt claimed in the statutory demand is based on a judgment, order, liability order, costs certificate, tax assessment or decision of a tribunal, the court will not at this stage inquire into the validity of the debt nor, as a general rule, will it adjourn the application to await the result of an application to set aside the judgment, order decision, costs certificate or any appeal."

So does that make the lease invalid or arguable? I will then have to appeal to the High Courts tomorrow morning with the evidence and hope for the best. Thanks again!

Thanks for answers, is it too late to apply to overturn the liability orders? And do I need to put in application to Magistrates court? Or High court? Ive had suggestions as to both but noobody is really clear on what the proper process is nor whether it is too late. The lease said 'my name Trading as company name ltd'. But because liability order was obtained within last year, I am concerned I might have missed the boat to overturn. Thanks again

Hi Just one more thought, you mention valuation tribunal. I understand this is only good for tax banding not tax liabilities, is this correct? Thanks

Some properties are business rates which I have sent leases previously and agencies always send copies when tenants are signed up. One property though was not mine for business rates, however it appears my lease was invalid as previous lease was not revoked. Whereas my lease was joint with previous tenant but another tenant removed. I understand that makes this lease invalid because previous tenant who was removed on new lease did not approve nor landlord did not revoke lease to be able to vary name. And also the lease was in my name trading as company name, so not sure if I or company is liable. The tenancies are for whole house and tenants are liable for tax. One of the liabilities though is a sitting tenant who has whole house to himself but been in recievership for some time. The recievers collect rent and the council are saying it is HMO.

Thanks for reply. Reasons why I am not liable are tenants were in place of liability periods and copies of tenancies were sent to council but obviously not acknowledged. Other reason is a business rates that had a lease in the name of 'my name TRADING AS company name ltd' therefore if I understand correctly the company name is liable, this is 40% of the debt. Other 30% is another business rates that has always been tenanted and copies of lease provided to business rates but again not acknowledged. I know it was silly but I assumed I would be able to resolve this with council by sending them the proofs but it did not register with them. I am wondering whether I can now overturn the liability orders? As I understand it maybe now too late because the 21 days has gone so far past.

Hi all, I have been issued a stat demand and now will be served a petition for bankruptcy next week. This is for liability orders obtained in the past between 2009-2012. The majority of the liability orders are supposed to be the tenants paying which I have proof. I made an application to set aside the stat demand, however Judge dismissed on basis that CPR 13.4.3 "Where the debt claimed in the statutory demand is based on a judgment, order, liability order, costs certificate, tax assessment or decision of a tribunal, the court will not at this stage inquire into the validity of the debt nor, as a general rule, will it adjourn the application to await the result of an application to set aside the judgment, order decision, costs certificate or any appeal." I have stated clearly several time to Council tax department of who owes the liabilities etc, but now because it has gone this far they will not discuss and say only contact through their solicitor. Their solicitor has said not interested and bankruptcy petition will be served unless all monies paid. Problem is I do not owe the liabilities, I made a mistake not appealing within the 21 day time limit via the High courts as I had a lot of other things going on. I am wondering is there anyway we can get the liability orders overturned at all, I have the proof for the council that other tenants were in place and should have been paying for this? My guess at moment is to appeal the stat demand on the grounds surely "Common sense will prevail" but have serious doubts about this. Other option is for me to appeal the liability orders via the High court and hope that the Judge doesn't strike out straight away because of the 21 day lapse. Anyone know the best way to deal with this please? Thanks

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/us-foreclosures-courtcase-washington-idUSBRE88D1OF20120914 Interesting article, ok it is for the US but a form of securitisation if I understand correctly and now going wrong for the banks.

Apologies Ellen, just thought Id mention... Family of six hope you managed to get the eviction stopped. you are in great hands with the consumer teams including Ellen.

Forgive me if I'm wrong Ellen but is it not worth putting in application to suspend repo order rather than letting it go further down the line to eviction hearing? Grounds could be the payment plan attached etc. This would be back up plan in case lender don't play ball.

Why don't you pay the tax online via council tax payments ?

I don't know if this is a good thing or not! Virgin money buying mortgage express books! Surely they will have more sense than the UKAR! http://www.ukar.co.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2012/23-07-2012?page=2&nextprev=1

Hi caro Thanks for reply. Good article in paper today about mortgage express. But it is not clear that it is receivers helping mortgage express inflict the damages. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2193459/Repossession-sales-cheating-taxpayer.html

Hi all, it seems to be the big players are getting this to work for them by having the legal might to bully you including the judges. Whilst ongoing litigation with MX and WS, they have started a seperare money claim, I applied to the high courts consolidate the money claim to the main trial and to give me leave to amend my defence. I did not receive MX application notice till day before the hearing as MX deliberately delayed sending me a copy due to my solicitor not forwarding me the paperworks. A high court judge dismissed my applications and awarded costs against me as MX recently got the same high court judge decision overturned and you could tell he was scared to rule on anything. But the obscene thing was as I am acting litigant in person I applied to the high courts because my trial is with them. Now the high court judge ruled he does not have jurisdiction to rule on these only a week before the money hearing. Left me in complete limbo as basically now MX can pursue judgement against me due to MX terms states that there is no set off To any claims made by them. I then tried to plead with judge on the CCA unfair relationship to which judge replied I have no chance. Then asked for permission to appeal which again was refused. I cannot understand why the real justice system works in favour for the people who have money to throw at the legal team. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Then when the action starts, in your request for disclosure for your evidence as part of the CPR, request all recorded calls helps if you tell them when and who. Say your case is based on this evidence and is detrimental to allow the courts to make a decision. Would look silly if mx claim they don't record their calls even though they say they do and I'm not sure whether FSA requires them to record their calls.

L.capo an oral agreement is a contract not a non binding agreement! Especially if you have acted upon this! You could potentially have a case for breach of contract and damages and this will allow you to place an injunction of them selling properties. Contact me via pm if you want to speak with me about it and I will help wherever I can. Patrick, good to see you also! Mx and wS got so much legal might against me but I'm still fighting them, we have to all get our heads together and take action to stop this nonsense. You have to be clear on what are you going to litigate them against.

L.capo did you say MX promised to give you properties back when arrears clear etc? If so, did you get this in writing or oral agreement? What order are you going to apply to stay? What legal action has been taken? If none, maybe consider applying for an injunction for them to stop sales of props. Hence the reason why I asking the question did they agree to give props back when arrears clear? Please tell us a bit more as to what had happened so then we can maybe help more.

Hi all, Just caught up with the updates on this thread. It is a shame this is still ongoing. As I understand I have tried to go down the route of the invalid legal charge and invalid power of attorney on the basis of securitisation. However very difficult to get a Judge to listen if MX are still showing on the land registry. To date I still have litigation claim, now MX have tried a back door route on me serving me with moneyclaim. I am trying to request papers such as a valid signed contract etc, at the moment they are arguing it has no relevance and why should it be included in the disclosure etc. They MX and Ws have tried every underhand tactic against me now I have nearly all witness statements from them and you can see they just planly lie and backtrack on evetyhing they have promised. My case is on basis that properties will be returned once arrears are cleared. They now claim it was never an agreement or a binding contract, then what the hell do you say it for and what the hell have I repaired all the props and brought the accounts up to date means? Just flabbergasting and exhausting! Been very hard but am keeping trying and have exhausted all legal funds...

Very interesting! thanks for the replies. I have been digging through the paperworks I recieved from SAR. I found a variation clause included in what I signed. "I/We understad that this decleration does not affect the powers of the court to make an order under section 140B of the consumer credit act 1974 in relation to a credit agreement where it determines that the relationship between the creditor and the debtor is unfair to the debtor." I will read into the banking code and note there is not very much that applies to the circumstances I had such as being told to sign a new contract otherwise they will sell the property. I was forced to sign a new agreement or they will sell the proeprty when I first fell into arrears in 2008, however I did get advice at the time from a claims person rather than a solicitor who managed to negotiate the loan down. They changed the varied the contract rates and term of the contract from 20 years to 5 years. The payments increased from £600 per month to £2000 pcm, consequently I fell into arrears and they then allowed to reciever to take over my rents and arrange for disposal of the property. I need to research whether that Reciever is acting as mortgagee in possession by instructing the Recievers of what to do ie to sell making thus the relationship "Unfair to the Debtor". Thanks