If it gets to court then you can! You can include as part of your claim reasonable expenses - I've heard of one guy on the Bank charges area of the forum say that they had a solicitor freind of theirs say that it would be perfectly reasonable to charge £3 per letter you send and about £10 per hour you spend working on the claim. But good records are essential to this - just make up a timesheet like at work and record when you work on it. Might need to double check this is OK with a lawyer but then you can claim their fees back as part of the claim as well. The Badger

Hi got my decision today by email! seems the info commisioner is now getting into the backlog of barclaycard complaints as soon as they can. you'll be getting yours very soon I suspect The_Badger

Always send stuff recorded signed for in the post to SLC - they're amazingly proficient at "not recieved in the post". So much so that a cynical man might suggest its intentional - but I'm not that cynical am I?

They're not allowed to under law as they are unlawful - but they do it anyway. You can reclaim all the charges for the last 6 years. Have a read of the threads in the barclaycard forum. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/ Mine is a student Barclaycard and I'm in the process of claiming - I'm still awaiting the Information commissioner to rule that barclaycard broke the law by not giving me my accounts when I asked under the data protection act. They claimed their microfiche records weren't covered by the Data Protection Act but the Info commissioner just ruled on someone elses complaint that it did - so mines a formality. Once I have that I can work out the last 6 years worth of charges and really get stuck into them. Good luck. The Badger

Yes you can the same principle applies to these charges as it does to the bank ones - if the charges are not proportional to the cost of sending the letter or to the loss incured by the Student Loans Company then they are unlawful. Basically they are claiming the charges with a view to profit not for the provision of a service etc. I've just started a general information thread on the Student Loans Company on this forum which I'll be posting templates etc into. Start off with a Subject Access Request under the data protection act 1998 (there's a template letter in the thread I started) remember thought that unless you can prove that the SLC knew their charges where unlawful before 6 years ago then the statute of limitations applies and limits your claim to the charges in the last 6 years. Good Luck The Badger

Smith Lawson & Co: The Student Loan Company Ltd is the same as Smith Lawson & Company The later is just a trading name of the Student Loan Company and is its own debt collection group. They use this differentiation in name to give the impression that your account has been handed over to a 3rd party. This ploy works in that many people pay money worried that they are now dealing with a debt collection agency - in reality its just the Student Loan Companys' collections department. If you end up speaking to the Smith Lawson & Co don't let them claim no knowledge of conversations etc. with the student loans company. Let them know your aware of the situation with regards their name. Postage to the Student Loans Company: I have had approximately 50% of my posted mail "not been received" by the student loans company. Many others I have spoken to also report that this occurs to them as well. I suspect that the student loans company either is incapable of filling communications by post to the correct file or is intentionally ignoring such letters and deferment applications with a view to profit. I may be wrong but that is my opinion. If you send a deferment application or anything else by post its best to send it recorded signed for - you get a proof of postage and a proof of delivery. If you end up negotiating with the SLC then you should only ever send photocopies of these proof of delivery - or they will also get "Lost" in the post! Pre 1998 or not? There are two main student loan systems. 1. Those students who commenced their course of study between September 1990 and August 1998 2. Those students who commenced their course of study from September 1998 onwards. The first type of student loan (old scheme from here on) is based on a credit agreement and is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The second type of student loan (new scheme from here on) is not regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. So how to tell which you are? a) Firstly when did you start your course? If you started your study before the 31st August 1998 then you would have been on the old loan scheme. Its not when you took the loan (I took mine out in June 1999 but am on the old scheme as I started before the 31 August 1998) b) do you pay for your student loan through your pay packet? The new scheme works as an attachment to your earnings - if your payed more than aprox £17,000pa pre tax then you end up paying back your loan automatically through your wage packet. Old scheme members: If you don't have the original agreement anymore then you are entitled under law to ask for a "true copy" The Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives you the right to obtain a copy for £1 within 12 days of notification in writing. This does not mean that the loan is then written off - however not being provided with a copy of the credit agreement is a full defence in court if the lender attempts to get any money off you for the loan. This would mean that in most cases a court would find in your favour and the loan would be set aside. However if at a later date the Credit agreement is found then they can legally demand payment. Some have argued that this would not occur as the lender, having committed a criminal offence would choose not to pursue it. I am not sure of this but it's possible. If you find yourself in this situation I'd be extremely careful and seek legal advice. Old Scheme (Pre 1998 students) Credit Agreement (terms and conditions). I've scanned the terms and conditions on my copy of the original credit agreement: There are two pdf files. Page 1: http://thebadger.ifastnet.com/Docs/Agreementpg1.pdf Page 2: http://thebadger.ifastnet.com/Docs/Agreementpg2.pdf The files are a bit big (1.6mb and 2.2mb respectively) but thats because the writting is very small so the resolution had to be high. The Badger Forgot to say: Cheques for the SAR and the CCA requests are made payable to "Student Loans Company" In case anyone wasn't sure. Also the address of the data controller (a legally required position for all institutions holding personal data under the Data Protection Act) for the Student Loans Company is: Data Controller Student Loans Co.Ltd, 21 St. Thomas Street, Bristol. BS1 6JS You can address your SAR there as an alternative to that given in the Template above. 21 St. Thomas St. is also the address of Smith Lawson & Company Ltd. as mentioned above - so if you're dealing with that pseudo-branch of the Student Loans Company thats where to send information

Hi, I've been reading a few thread about the Student Loan Company and thought I'd start a general one with information for all wanting to pursue the SLC. Hopefully this can become a library of information rather than a discussion thread - if anyone has any useful documents to add to this please feel free. I'll add in the next day or so

Hi Nurselayer - just read your thread - very interesting. I only have the one loan and I have the original agreement here with me so I can't really go down your route - but my letter charges when returned would be nearly the same as the loan itself - so I'm just writting the SAR letter now. I've missed payments etc before so I'm going to get a credit check and see if I can get it any notes on it removed if they relate to charges. Thanks and good luck with your claim. The Badger

Filed both my Barclays and Natwest claims yesterday - will be sending an SAR to the student loans co. today as it seems their charges are also covered by the law. For anyone using the paper N1 version of things the cheque for the court fees should be made payable to: "HM Court Service" The Badger

I'm going to be sending off the SAR request today as well - I got a call yesterday demanding money for arrears despite being deferred and having charged me £20 for not paying despite me sending a Direct debit form that they "didn't recieve" like about 50% of my other letters I sent to them! Its amazing how their postal deliveries go so astray really - You'd expect a postal service underpinned by the crown and protected by harsh legal penalties to be better at delivering letters to them - sorry sarcasm really is hard to do in text! :0) Anyway I'll be pursuing them for the charges - might be just enough to pay off the loan - that would be great! Many Thanks for the information. The Badger

RE: Your Missing Original Agreement! PLEASE READ! Hi I've just had a read through some other threads on other cases and I found some useful info: If you are missing the original agreement then by law you are entitled to request a copy. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if you request a signed copy of the original agreement, they must provide it within 12 DAYS. If they take longer than 30 days to provide it, they have committed a criminal offence. If they take longer than the 30 days your agreement and therefore the money owed would become null and void! Also if they had entered any defaults against your credit record you would have ground for them to be struck off! You'll need legal advice if they can't give the original agreement and you want to get the debt dropped - but it might be worth chasing if you don't have the original copy of your agreement with SLC Hope that helps The Badger

Hy Maybelline Yes the retirement point of the debt was 65 years old I believe - as long as you where below a certain age when you took it out (as they where worried retired people where doing degrees for fun and would then be getting the debt cancelled as soon as they hit 65!) I have all the original documents - including teh t&C so as soon as I get a chance I'll scan teh lot and stick a link up here for others. The Badger

See the information posted in the sticky area of the Barclays / Barclaycard forum - someone has a letter from the IC with a judgement that the microfiche records are a "Structured and Relevant Filing System" So its official - they have to send them to you! ;0)

You star - absolutly brilliant! I sent off my complaint a few weeks ago but they said they hadn't recieved it so a duplicate went yesterday - should mean I can get the info to get b@stardcard asap! Can we claim charges for 6 years prior to our original SAR to b@stardcard rather than the current date on the grounds that they obstructed our claim in order to reduce total of the claim? All my charges are right back near that 6 year threshold so the later they force me to claim the less I can get back? Anyone know? Thanks The Badger

Hi Rob The paper N1 method taken in by hand or posted to the local court is now the same cost as the MCOL version (I think it was less online when they started to get it going). I filed my claims yesterday at court and paid by cheque over the counter - I think I saw a chip and pin machine there so I guess a credit/debit card might be useable - ring them up to check the numbers are all on the HMCS (Her Maj. Court Service) website. My cheque was payable to "HM Court Service" if you decide to send it by post. You send three copies and technically your supposed to include three copies of the defendants form/advice from the website as well - but I forgot and the court said not to worry since they always add that anyway. It can take up to 5 days to issue the claim that way and so your schedule of charges attached to the "particulars of claim" on the N1 form will be out of date if you include them (since the 8% interest increases each day!) but the woman at the court told me to just send an updated set once I recieve my copy of the claim back with the right date on it. Hope that helps The Badger

As to the 8% if I was you I'd work it out fully then do an updated set of accounts for the court and the bank. Work out the 8% for each charge from the date it was taken from your account to the date you issued the MCOL To do this without excel either use the none excel version mentioned by welshman or by hand - here's how. For each charge taken from your account: 1. you count the days from when it was taken to the date your claim was issued on MCOL 2. multiply the charge amount by 0.00022 3. Then multiply that figure by the number of days worked out in step 1. 4. Repeat this for each charge that was taken. 5. Add them all together and you have your total interest. The total is the 8%APR you're entitled to to the date your claim was issued (under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984). 6. Add the interest and the total of the charges = total amount your claiming. From the date your MCOL claim was issued you can then claim 8% interest on the figure worked out at step 6. to do this you: 7. take the figure worked out in step 6 (the interest + the total charges) and multiply it by 0.00022 8.This gives you the daily rate (in pounds) you charge for every day from the date your MCOL claim was issued to the day they settle out of court or the date of judgement. So the longer they take the more they owe you! Type up a statement with the following on it: Your Name (or both if its a joint account) Your sort code and account number. MCOL claim reference No. MCOL claim issue date. The date this statement is being produced The following titles: "SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGES PERIOD: [date from] TO [date to - this will be the MCOL clai issue date]" "In Respect of: Amount Date Incurred Days since offence Interest 8% APR" A list of the following: each charge (type and amount), the date it was taken, the days from then to claim issue date, the amount of interest at 8% as worked out in steps 1-3 above all the totals along the bottom. After the main charges table add one of "Interest to date" Put the total amount of the claim from step 6. the daily rate from step 8. The number of days from the MCOL issue date to the date of the statement (hence why you put it on the top of the page) The interest calculated by multiplying the daily rate by the number of days. Add a list of expenses (Court Costs, Postage etc) Then a summary table Total claim amount (from step 6) Total interest from MCOL issue date to date of statement Total expenses Overall current total (total of all in the summary table) If you lay it out like this it will be neat and easy to follow - keep a copy for yourself and every now and then update the figures (that interest will grow and you can also record extra costs) print it out each time and you have a clear easy to follow paper trail for the court. Good luck The Badger

Right 9:50 Court opens at 10 - off to file my claim against Barclays and one against Natwest for my joint account. Despite the knowledge of how much delaying and obfiscating barclays will try this is still going to feel good! Somehow feels empowering to sue my bank! :0)

I assume thats thats the full amount? If so.... I've seen threads on this on the forums - get in touch with Barclays - phone followed by letter (for your records) and explain the account is closed - get them to issue a cheque to you and then pay off the money you owe on the old account - you could agree as a gesture of good will to include a condition of the settlement to pay off the outstanding amount within X days of recieving the cheque - might convince them to aggree. Or you could ask them to settle with two cheques - one for the outstanding amount payable to PayPlan and the other for the remainder to you. They are a bank - how hard can writting a extra cheque be? Good Luck

If you want a copy of my excel spreadsheet that does all the calculations for you just post and I'll stick it online. (it's based on the spreadsheet on this website) Thanks The Badger

Sharpblue HANG IN THERE MATE! You're gona be fine - looks like you not only are doing it right but have a professional helping you out as well - most of us don't and everyone is getting paid their amounts - so you should be fine. As to the information - you have to do give them the information to make the case fair - its just the process so don't sweat it too much. Thanks for posting the letter - hope you don't mind if I copy it for my bundle (filling my claim today but want everything in place). The bank will try scare tactics to stop you - hence the terminiation notice despite them knowing that you're in dispute so they can't terminate! Try reading StevieT's thread on here - he'd claiming a large amount and they're trying all sorts of angles but in the end we all have them over a barrel! So just hang in there - you'll get your money. In some ways the aggreement to pay the overdraft amount forces you to get your account into a financially good position - and once the amount is gone you're in a position to swap banks at short notice if you want to! (so really they're shooting themselves in the foot as they'll loose you and the interest they where charging). Think what you can spend the money they owe you on. Good luck The Badger

Hi Tim The Schedule of charges isn't the whole account history they sent you after your Subject Access Request (SAR) but rather just the list of charges they have taken, the date they did so and the "reason" for them. e.g. "Paid referal fee 11/05/2001 £30 List each one and the total amount of money you can then work out the contractual evidence - the 8% APR you can claim for the charges from the date they charged them to the date you filed your MCOL - that gives you the total amount your claiming. (then 8% on this total after filing to settlement). You should have sent the schedule of charges with each of the letters you sent to Barclays prior to filing your MCOL. You should also have included it with your claim - but with the MCOL online form you might not have had room. The bank may now issue a CPR18 request for more information. You could just submit the schedule of charges. They may also include in the CPR18 for you to justify why you think the charges are unfair - you can deny that request with a standard response from the library if you want to. You can also counter their CPR18 with one of your own requrining them to explain the exact costs to them when you went overdrawn etc. They will never wish to do this as they think its propriatry info and it would require them to admit that the amount is much much lower than the £30 they charged - i.e. they'd be telling the court that your claim is correct and their position would become unwinnable (and since you'd publish their resonse on here they'd loose all other cases as well!) As to them acknowledging your claim - its just the courts way of saying that the bank have formally noticed that they are being sued - rather than just feigning ignorance! They may enter a defense of they may not there is no way of knowing for sure. Just keep plodding through the process and don't cave in till they offer you the full amount inc. all the interest and the court costs. Good luck The Badger

The form for a complaint to the Info Commisioner is on their website - you can fill it out electronically and send it via the web if you have no supporting documents (or electronic docs) but I had a hard copy letter to include so printed out the form and sent it snail mail. Not heard back yet so I'll chase it tommorrow but I suspect the IC is overrun at the moment with B@stardcard complaints. The form is here: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/forms/data_protection_complaint_form.doc or if you're filling it out by hand: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/forms/data_protection_complaints_form.pdf Hope that helps The Badger

Having followed StevieT's progress I thought I'd start my own thread. Filing my Claim in court tommorrow. Claiming £700 in charges and contractual interest over the last 6 years. Barclays didn't ask for £10 for my SAR request but sent me printout copies of the microfiche account records free from when I opened the account (big envelope!). Since then they have denied the claim twice then offered £200 - which I politely declined. The contractual 8% interest: I wrote my own spreadsheet to work everything out from this - just added the amounts and dates charges where taken, the date the claim was filed in court and any costs. Then you just stick in the date you are producing a statement for and it works out all the interest, the daily rate etc. If anyone wants a copy its an excel spreadsheet and I'll gladly make it available - anything to help you against Barclays! Anyway I'll update this as I hear more. The Badger

Caro, Stevie just read the thread through - sounds like Barclays can be a bit crap and try to wriggle out anyway possible - glad you have their slimy carcase under a pitch fork - so to speak! About to file my court claim tommorrow against barclays - any advice with hindsight? Will set up my own thread for how its going (don't want to hijack - just thought I'd ask). Cheers

I'd say that is a breach of the monopolies regulations. She should refer it to the monopolies commision! Her banking is a private matter and is nothing to do with the company you work for. If it is a case of pay and there is no other option - have the Barclays account but get rid of the overdraft and then set up a standing order to transfer her wages to another account each month - leave a float in there to make sure its always in credit. (at least thats what I think - may be wrong check first)