OK, my LBA is in the post today... here's a copy if anyone's interested Let's see what they have to say about that! SirOweALot

Looks like a perfectly standard letter from them, commonly known on this forum as the "sodoff" letter. Read the FAQ's, request your statements (the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) if you haven't already, then send either the preliminary letter stating the charges and interest amounts you're claiming, or LBA, as appropriate. The FAQ's have links to standard letters, but also have a look through other threads to find modified ones too which may be more appropriate for you. Good luck and keep posting!

cool... no-one's ever tipped my scales before... do I get a prize?

bill-k, Whilst I'm flattered that something I've said might actually make sense, I thought I'd better just reiterate that I've got no training in anything that would be useful on this board... I'm an IT Consultant, not an accountant or anything else, as such anything I say shouldn't be taken as correct, it's just my own particular grasp on it. That said, I agree absolutely with the whole of your post above... APR is nothing more than a way of making numpties like us understand SLIGHTLY more just how much the banks are trying to drain every penny from us. I've used the phrase "monthly interest rate" and "annual interest rate" when I've written letters, that way they can be interpreted differently depending on one's needs. Again, you could argue that as a layman you don't know anything different.

After writing the above, I did some further digging... I used the interest rates from Chezt's Genuine Answers link above (MY EMPHASIS IN BOLD) Using my calculation from the last post I did this The answer is 1.09999816, or 9.9998%. Close enough to 10% APR as stated in the first line. Does this help anyone? Certainly I feel better about using that calculation in my spreadsheet... I should point out that I'm not an accountant, solicitor, bank manager or anything like that... these may just be the ramblings of a madman...

Chezt, In your Genuine Answers link, I like the following statement after the APR Advantages bit :-) yeah, of course they are!! I've always used the following calculation to convert monthly to annual interest rate (notice I don't say APR, "annual interest rate compounded monthly" or anything else like that as I honestly don't know what it converts to). where 1835 equals the monthly rate of 1.8735% (so 0.026 is 2.6% pm on the credit card statement). Copy and paste the quote above into the google search box and it'll calculate it for you. Change the 18735 to whatever your monthly rate is, remebering to drop the "point". The above quote gives 1.24949559, and by dropping the 1. you get 2494 etc or 24.94%. So 2.6% per month equals 1.36071863 or 36.07%. Not exactly as Chezt's APR stated on his statement, but certainly near enough. I admire Glenn UK's tenacity at trying to get the calculations exactly right, but my (layman's) head hurts so I'm happy to get it nearly right... As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not out to screw the banks and I think that if a judge saw our feeble attempts at calculating interest rates he/she would probably find in our favour as long as we weren't too far out, and certainly under rather than over in our calculations. I'll post my spreadsheet later... I'm not saying it's correct (it's bsed on one of Vamp's sheets but I've modified it to work out variable rates) but I'm hoping it's close enough. I'm happy to argue in court that it's the best I could do after doing a reasonable amount of research. I'm sure it's under-calculating (sorry Glenn ) but I'd rather it was this way... after all I'm still getting more than the statutory 8%. SirOweALot

Thanks... well its in the post so we'll soon see! I'll keep you posted... Incidentally, what spreadsheet have you been using for credit cards?

Right, here's the letter going out today... I'm using compound contractual rates, and have taken into account the interest rates showing on the statements where the charge is made. This is due to an ongoing discussion that can be read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/22690-contractual-interest.html Anyone see anything wrong with this before I send it? SirOweALot

The other thing to consider is that there's 2 very different types of claims being made... one for bank accounts and one for credit cards. Bank account interest rates have fallen over the years, and the courts may well take the fact that you're using a lower interest rate that has been applied previously i your favour. Credit card interest rates however have risen over time, and the court could therefore argue that you are applying a higher interest rate than you are entitled to. This obviously works in our favour as its highly unlikely that the case would end up in court, but if you happen to be the unlucky one that does, wouldn't it go against you? I'm very concerned by this... it's a pity we don't have someone in authority (any actuaries, barristers or financial gurus out there?) who could give a professional opinion... the difficulty would be that everyone's case is different, but surely there must be some guiding principles that we could all apply? Glenn, that's fine as your opinion, but a judge may see it differently, that what I'm worried about. Surely that's IRrelevant not relevant :grin: Interestingly, First Direct sent copies of all my statements and they clearly show interest rates in force at the time... HOWEVER, MBNA just sent a statement of charges. I would therefore think that the principle of reciprocity and mutuality counts here because as Glenn pointed out, I know the varying interest rates for First Direct, but I don't for MBNA. That's not my fault as a laymen, I asked for the details and that's what I got sent... I'm going to use the variable rates for First Direct, and the contractual interest rate in force at the moment for MBNA. SirOweALot

That seems a fair point to me too. After all, we're not out to screw the banks (although for all the grief some people have had, it must be on some people's minds), but rather to get back what was unlawfully taken in the first place. Interest on that is a bonus, but only in as much as that's what the banks would do to us anyway. That said, it's not fair to gain from the actions we are taking, but the balance should be redressed. Vampiress, is it possible for you to amend your credit card spreadsheets to take into account variable interest rates? SirOweALot

roydosan, My MBNA rates are the same as well... the way I looked at it, it makes life easier as I only have one rate to worry about when working the interest rates out. bill-k, Thanks for your explaination in post #31 (I clicked your scales btw). I've been pulling my hair out trying to work out what rates to use and how to use them... but between you and Glenn UK I think it's quite clear... please correct me if I still misunderstand. Apply the contractual rate in force (the one for purchases shown on your statement), stay away from the cash advance rate, and then if necessary argue in court that you used the APR/AER/contractual rate given by the credit card company as there was no way, as a layman, you could work out the specific underlying rate the bank actually uses. One other question to throw in the mix. My First Direct rate was 0.82% when the first charge was made in 2002, and it rose roughly yearly to 1.01%, 1.24% rate now is 1.313% per month. Do we charge the contractual rate as 1.313% over the whole charge schedule, average it between 0.82% and 1.313%, or apply each one separately? I can't seem to make a spreadsheet to work out a figure so I'm not sure if it makes a big enough difference that the courts will even care... what's yours or Glenn UK's take on this? SirOweALot

easily done, just don't make a habit of it!

Sodoff letter recieved today from Kate Thornton. Customer Relations. No refund, no goodwill gesture, just write to Robert Kernaghan to complain further. I was rather hoping for this as it means I can add the interest I forgot in the first letter. OK then... one LBA letter in the post to Robert, this time with the contractual interest amounts added on... £457 + £195.45 = £652.45 and counting... that nearly clears the card... woohoo! SirOweALot

Glenn Did you use MINDZAI's spreadsheet for a credit card claim? I noticed it specifically says not to be used for credit cards... what actual difference is there? I'm definitely claiming for compounded contractual interest, but all my claims will be against credit card accounts rather than bank accounts and I'm a bit concerned that I'll be claiming for incorrect amounts. SirOweALot

Great letter! Any response yet? I'm going to have a pop at Smile in a bit once I've got my parachute account sorted, and finished the existing claims I've got going, so I'll be watching your thread with interest! SirOweALot

Difficult to tell... it has my card number printed in the same type as the rest of the letter, but the signature is digitally printed from Matthew McGrath rather than being hand signed. I feel it is specifically aimed at me, rather than being a general letter to everyone. Never mind, the money they will be paying me back should reduce the account by more than half, so it'll be much easier to pay off! SirOweALot

When you phoned Mr Miney, did you have any figures worked out yourself, or did you just phone and say "I've got a claim against you... how much are you going to refund me"? I've worked out all the figures except the interest on the charges (ie. the bit that Glenn UK is always going on about ) and I was going to try and get them to work that bit out for me... maybe if I hit them with 95% of what I know they owe me, they might just work the last bit out seeing as it's the most difficult bit to do.

Had a nice letter from mbna today notifying me of a change to my Ts&Cs. I don't see anything sinister there, but it's co-incidental that it arrives just after the charges statement and "goodwill" payment they made. Anyone have any thoughts on this? SirOweALot

Hi Glenn, useful stuff thanks. Where you mention the interest on charges you state a figure of 16.9%. Where did this figure come from? My purchase/BT/CHQs and cash transaction rates are all the same... 1.8735% per month (24.95% using (1=0.018735)^12) so do I use that instead, or is 16.9% some legal figure for interest on charges? Still compiling stuff so haven't phoned yet. I think it's worth a few days to sit back and make sure everything is nailed down before I phone. SirOweALot

Hi All Received my letter back in response to my SAR today. They didn't send the full DPA pack like First Direct did, preferring to send my cheque back uncashed and a schedule of charges. As this broadly tallies with what I thought were the charges, I'm not worried about chasing for the full DPA stuff. They kindly offered me a goodwill payment of £400 in full and final settlement. It's supposed to be credited to my account, but it isn't there as of this morning, although the letter was written 2 days ago. Needless to say, I'm accepting it as part payment only. Working through MINDZAI's excellent spreadsheet, I see the following Charges over 6 years - £825 Charges + 8% - £985.39 charges + contractual interest - £1030.84 (at 1.87% pm, 24.95% pa) Charges + compound contractual interest - £1472.17 (at 1.87% pm, 24.95% pa) I'm going to give them a call and claim for the £1472 once I've got a list of what to say. Has anyone made a "crib sheet" for arguments and counter-arguments before calling MBNA up? If so, I'd be grateful for a copy. SirOweALot

Well it seems on reading another few hunders threads that I was wrong... oh well. It seems that others have done this, and then added into the LBA that as the bank haven't replied to the first request just for the late charges back (as a gesture of goodwill), they recalculated adding interest. I think I'll do the same unless anyone else has any thoughts?

Please ignore... I read the thread again and answered my own question

I missed that... shame. just worked out it's 29.99% interest per year!! At this rate, it's be better to take out a store card and transfer the money onto that! SirOweALot

Hi My partner received 2 letters in the post this morning saying her 2 LTSB credit cards have had a monthly interest rate increase from 1.094% and 1.349% to 2.21%. She has had both cards for years, and missed her first payment on each card last month (miscalculated the date for the payments to go in by 1 day). She phoned and queried this and was told "this is a standard charge that we're putting everyone on from now on". She asked if it was because she'd missed the payments and was told "it isn't personal, everyone will be going on this new rate". At the bottom of the letter states "Please remember that making your monthly repayments on time and staying within your credit limit can lead to future reductions in your interest rate". We worked out on a credit card repayment calculator that with the minimum repayments kept at 2%, we would never repay the outstanding amount back! Has anyone else seen this? New tactic by the banks? Standard high interest rate, but we'll give you a bonus if you're a good boy or girl? SirOweALot

Aah, I get it now, thanks for taking the time to explain. As it happens, my monthly interest rate and cash advance are the same (1.8735% per month or 24.95% annually) so in my particular case, Vampiress' sheet will work. I'm collating the various comments from various threads at the moment... I've kept 3 years of statements, and SAR'd for the rest. As soon as these drop on the mat, I'll be good to go Sorry to hijack your thread and well done on the win over MBNA!