Hi everyone. Just found this: Communities and local government | Programme for Government I have added a comment. Perhaps they will see it will and know there is interest. I think it will be a good idea if some of us add our comments so as to let them know the strength of feeling on this matter. I have posted a comment at the bottom and saved as favourite to check back on whether it has passed moderation. Will be interesting to follow all of this. thanks Sew

Hi Everyone, My apologies for the delay in getting back, waiting for replies from Council. So, I have had two replies from the council. They are full of "interesting" comments and avoidances, etc. I will go into the library and get them scanned and get them on here to discuss, etc. I will not be able to do that until Monday as I am away until then. One thing to note now. The bailiff have reduced my payment to £30 per month. I have not paid them any money as I have paid direct to the council for the time being and until this is resolved to my satisfaction. The funny thing is that I have not heard anything from the bailiffs about any non-payment in over 6 weeks since it was due. I just cant help thinking that they are just not interested and probably think they they can get more money elsewhere than turning up here for a measly £30 or my rubbish belongings on the levy's are not worth the hassle for them. Over time I have thought more and more about this and how they work and just cant help thinking that this is the case. From the content of the letters from the council i cant helping think they wouldn't care either if I told them this. ...just ridiculous the whole thing. Just goes to prove all they are after is money to pay their fees and a cursory gesture toward the debt! More to come, Regards Sewingkit

I am gobsmacked! Twice now I have walked past (earlier today at bottom of my road) Ben Bradshaw (local labour MP and Cabinet member). I thought, shall I stop him and bring "these people" to his attention, thought, "no silly, I don't wanna cause a fuss!" I will be now. subscribed with intense interest and favourited for referral Good luck and take them to the cleaners! Sew

Sorry Rae, meant to say May. Must have been the excitement.... Edited

Had confirmation that the complaint has gone to stage two of their corporate complaints procedure and is now with the Head of Treasury Services! I am to expect a reply by the 13th of May (!)..... ---------------------------------- Now for dealing with those pesky bailiffs.... Onwards and upwards. Sew

rae, i have sent the reply to the council as per your suggestions with it amended to relate to the letter too. Looked good indeed, thanks. I emailed it and will follow up with post.... time to call councillor! regards Sew

Hi Rae, Good to hear from you. Yes, to CEO and labelled Formal complaint. Lady at council reception asked what it was concerning, I said C'Tax and bailiff action, she said OK (as if she knew or had experience in it before) and also that "I need to know because it has to go to the specific team/person" etc. I doubt for one minute the CEO will have anything to do with it ( I am sure my local councillor/ombudsman/MP will remind him somehow. So, yeah, ended up with a team of two people who I guess deal with these sorts of things, managerial I doubt but supervisory/technical (as I was when I dealt with Endowment Mortgage complaints decision making in the Financial services sector, similar thing I guess) Thank you as always, EXACTLY what I wanted to say. Perfect reply for the council, I always want to be succinct and direct especially when I pay their wages and they work for me and I have done no wrong! Now for the stupid dumb bailiffs, I mean that, they are stupid and dumb, all of them. I think I need to put more on here re: their reply as I think that needs to relate to how I am going to form either another (pointless reply) to them or a framework for a Form 4 complaint. I want that bailiff to lose his certificate. watch this space.. I will draft your council reply up and get that off tomorrow. Regards Sew

...I think it is time to get my local councillor involved. I now know who that is and will make the call tomorrow. See if she can talk some sense into anyone. and my local paper if I feel it necessary, they may like the story. Sew

....exactly. Sums it up completely Sean. I am quite patient in some respects and cant wait for them to get a dose of their own medicine, 2 years and hopefully it will be here, their days are numbered. Over all this time since it happened the thing that grates/amazes/angers me at me the most is the bullying, and it was bullying! Think about that, I do, I know what bullying is and he acted like that. I do not care what anyone says on here but I want him, them, to experience the same or similar, to they know what it feels like to experience something like what I had to endure. Why should I or anyone, have to put up with that behaviour from some sort of pseudo-official. If the judge was in the kitchen then he would have thrown him in jail. Anyone, i will get off my high horse, lol. I have paid money to the council direct by way of a payment card. I will not give any money to them. I rather they take my (costless) items then pay them a penny. As soon as I am working again I will make a beeline to the bankruptcy fee and hopefully that will teach them another lesson. I am more confident now (thanks to the wonderful help from everyone on this site!) and slightly looking forward to their next visit, lol, good help 'em, I mean it. Sew

..Same company I have been having with all my problems!!!, Pascha, can you PM me which city/county you are in. I will tell you. If it is the same city as me then perhaps we can use this together against both council and R&R. ....Also, friend came round the other night and he had problems with same firm (same city) last few months. They tried to pull a fast one on him by coming round every month to collect the money due and trying to charge £100 (I think, his words) or so. He "mentioned" this to the bailiff in a stern tone (my mate is small but you have to be very careful with him, deceptive little guy who has been known to throw multiple bouncers threw doors on his own!). He said I have been calling your phones (to take payment) but you don't answer then think you can come round every month, etc. he stopped after that, just wanna add charges one whenever they feel like it! So sick of them all... Regards Sew

Hi Everyone, been a while.....sorry, was waiting for replies and time to digest things more. I've now had both replies back, one from the Bailiff and one from the Council (to my official complaint): Bailiff reply: Hilarious, to say the least, if you have read my letter above to them. they have actually not answered or just ignored some of my serious complaint points. It seems to have been written (thrown together) by a lower office clerk or someone not very experienced in complaints (perhaps a Form 4 will wake them up!), not signed by anyone. But it is long and I will digest and come back on here with more details asap. Council reply: Short and sweet, they have ignored my "vulnerable status" completely and given me there own "potentially" or "not relevant" interpretation of the standards paragraph and then said that they have had lengthy discussions with the bailiffs (I don't think they know the extent of how and the bailiff behaved even though I sent the council a copy of my bailiff complaint letter so they had an idea) and that as my complaint relates to their behaviour/issues that it will remain with the bailiff. not sure what that means. So, I will come one with more details asap and then perhaps some of you helpful lot can suggest next course of action on both fronts. I was thinking of: 1. Another reply to council saying I am not satisfied and go to ombudsman/councillor, maybe local paper, etc. I am not sure on how they can ignore my status but i want to type the working on here for your thoughts, soon. 2. As for the bailiff letter. Not sure what to to do next. Their reply is a joke, perhaps they think I am not serious. I will take this all the way to court if I have too. Perhaps a more strongly worded reply stating their ignoring of some of my complaint points. I will post the wording on here tomorrow for your thoughts. Speak soon, Sew

....loved every minute of it! complaint now off to bailiff, cant wait for the reply!! Thansk to everyone that has helped so far. It has really made a helluva difference to my handling this all. this site is truly wonderful and helpful. Will keep you posted on responses, etc Sew,

Thanks, she does have a way with words. I did thinking a copy to them but was not sure. Definitely will do now when I go into town later. I have the name of the person dealing with my formal complaint so will address direct to her and hand deliver with sig receipt. All good fun in a way..... cant wait to see what i get back! regards Sew

Hi Sean, I was wondering if it was so bad people were ignoring it, :o Thank you for your comments/changes, I think I will go with them. i useless with these sorts of things, writing how I talk as a lot of people do. once again, thanks for the help Regards Sew

Hi Everyone, I thought I would post the complaint letter anyway. Any comments are gladly welcome. Please excuse my lack of English/letter writing ability, best to get something down to kick off any improvements. I am just a bit unsure of the wording of some of the specific complaints and how to start/end and the length of time I give them. I intend to send this tomorrow by 5pm as i want it with them by end of week. I am slightly concerned about a follow up visit by them. I do still have the formal complaint with the CEO of the council being looked into as well on a separate track. Many thanks Sew xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Sir/Madam, Re: XXXXXX I am writing to make a formal complaint about a number of errors made by your bailiff Mr XXXXX on the xxth February 2010 which broke the rules for seizure and/or standards of enforcement agents. He visited my property at approximately 3pm to recover unpaid council tax to XXXXX City Council. The details of the above mentioned breaches are as follows: On at least 3 separate occasions during my conversations with him I stated that I was unemployed and on benefits, in fact he repeated it once in conversation. He should have taken note and acted accordingly and left and returned the cases to the appropriate councils. He could see that I was having a panic attack and asked me to calm down a number of occasions and even asked me to have a glass of water. He should have left and returned at later date or changed his threatening and intimidating manner. I believe he was in breach of his duty of care under any possible contract with the council. (This has been raised in a separate complaint to both relevant councils) On the 3 Walking Possessions Orders he (and the bailiff who joined him later) has listed the same items on each of the 3 forms. I believe this is illegal or at least in contravention of the rules for seizure. If you were to collect all the items on one and auction them how would you be able to collect them again on the other two for auction and subsequently pay to the creditor. I believe that at least two of the WPOs are null and void. On the three WPOs you have added the same set of charges on each WPO for one visit only. You cannot add charges 3 times for only one visit. Please bear in mind I have not gone through the computer screenshot you have sent me to check if you have done this before. This is also possibly illegal bordering on fraudulent at least a further contravention of the rules governing the seizure of goods and your own industry standards. A number of the items on the WPOs belong to the landlord of the house. I mentioned this to bailiff but got no reply. These items will not form any part of any levy. I am able to obtain a Statutory Declaration or Tenancy Agreement to prove this fact. On the Computer Screen-print provided by Ms XXXX in your office. There is no mention of Mr XXXX’ visit on the XXX July 2009 (I had kept the WPO). I found out that Mr XXXX was uncertificated at the time. His certificate ran out on the xxx July!!! I mentioned this to Mr xxxxxx and he said he had left your company. In fact this in untrue, after checking the register I have found out that he is still registered with your firm. So, I would like an explanation for why this is not on the history as I believe this is a further breach of your codes/ rules as mentioned above. I have a feeling that due to his very illegal levy that you somehow have not entered this on the records in the hope that it had been forgotten. I am sure that xxxx County court will have records of when Mr xxxx previous certificate ran out to further support this. I suspect that this omission from the record is a breach of the Data Protection act in some way. At least 3 of the items on the WPOs are broken (Gateway PC monitor, Epson printer and Coffee machine). These have no value whatsoever. I am under the impression that you should not be levying on broke items. I feel that once Mr xxxxx realised that he was unable to levy upon my car and that his ability to get money for fees would be limited he proceeded with a threatening, bullying and intimidating manner to seek an alternative source of revenue for your company. It was absolutely clear that I had no money (due to being on benefits and unemployed) and I had to think for about an hour where to get some money. In the end I had to borrow £327 from 2 friends and my landlord to get him out of my house. Furthermore, the money he did get will only apply to the (questionable) fees and never end up with the creditor. The (remaining!) items on the WPO’s have such low pecuniary value so as not to make any dent whatsoever in the outstanding debts so as to be pointless. This is and all above points lead me to believe that all he was interested in was getting some money out of me, broken items, items not belonging to me, duplicated items, vulnerable status and not caring how he got it. On a personal note, the visit left me shaken and physically sick. This has been compounded by the above discoveries with help from experienced people. The actions of Mr xxxx and therefore your company possibly also the council you represented were disgraceful. I will shortly be contacting my local newspaper, councillor and most importantly my local MP to offer him further data to support the regulation of bailiffs in the next 2 years as mentioned in the national press recently. I would like this complaint to be investigated immediately and resolved as soon as possible. I expect a written answer within 14 days before further action is considered and/or taken. Kind regards

Hi Everyone, if I post (and remove personal details) my very awful "draft" complaint to the bailiff can I please get some feedback/suggested improvements on it. Or alternatively do it by PM to those who offer just in case there are observers in here. many thanks Sew

Thanks hallowitch, for the clarification and confirmation. Thanks kelcou, I know what you mean, not to overextend yourself so to speak but show resolve and that you know enough but not letting on how much, etc. Thanks Sew

Thanks Rae, I kinda have the list wrongdoing and will find that the easy bit. just not sure how to start if off and how to finish it. I am so much better at these things face to face and on the phone, shame but it has to be done. All help is gladly received, thank you. I will start on the list tomorrow. through the course of these 70 or so comments the issues/bailiff errors are spread out and I was going to sort through and maybe get someone to verify i have got them right before I put pen to paper. and start from there. Must also think of what to write to local paper, councillor and MP. Those I would find much easier as they are not so formal Many thanks Sew

Hi Everyone, So, I have given the letter in to the council fao the Chief executive and head of revenues to return to Council. Tomorrow I will start on the complaint to the bailiff. They have let me know there complaint procedure. If anyone can assist me or show me a previous template/letter with any wording for how I make up the complaint. I have it listed what they have done wrong, each point but it's the other words around that like how to start and how to end i.e. time frames to reply, etc. Can someone answer/confirm something please: If the bailiff has a WPO signed by me CAN he break into my house when I am not there to repossess? I.e. use a crow bar on a door or break windows to get in (all mine will always be locked and there is no way he can without doing either). I am under the impression he has to get a court order to "break in" or something like that I mean if I he did how would it be leaving a house with open door or broken window for someone else to do the same thing when I am away. Just want to feel secure whilst my complaint goes through the bailiff and the council take back the Debt, etc Mmm, if they take back the debt then isn't the LO/WPO null and void in that no levy or claim would be relevant any more except any bailiff fees? Many thanks Sew

Excuse me...... expected I guess.

Hi Everyone, just been listening to 5Live (AM 693 or 909) of DAB. They are talking about baillills and council tax at some point during this show (Gabby Logans') 12-2 I think. Will be interesing listening if they get to it and do it. Sew

.....and I forgot to mention I am checking out the local councillor and getting her involved in some way and writing to local MP, Ben Bradshaw. I want to draw his attention to a lot of the substantive things I have read here and my own situation and the unregulated, dodgy behaviour and lack of a proper framework or protection for people that are targeted in this way. Much the same as mentioned in that Government bill I read about on here. There really does need to be stricter regulation and avenues of appeal, etc. I will, when I get my printer fixed, will be creating a A4 leaflet to pin up in the chippy down the road offering information. Well, pointing them here more or less and a few "facts" re: not obliged to let them in, they cant take goods unless they have WPO/let them in before, etc. Tidbits like that but being careful not to mislead, etc. Need to spread the word, knowledge is power as they say. I live in an "interesting social area" that may benefit from this and the chippy is always busy with locals who will see it. Perhaps this will help others and empower them and to make them feel a bit better if the same situation arises. I personally, in keeping with my empathic nature, would hate to think someone near by is going through the same thing as me when there is good help in a Broadband connection or Friend nearby. We/could go on I am sure......

Kelcou, et al, All done and I used attachment and added a couple of things in support but not overdoing it too much. Your letter was perfect, god I wish I could write like that. Too late to get to the Post office now but will be sending first thing tomorrow by recorded I emailed the bailiffs asking for their complaint procedure, i wonder how long they will take to reply I am not sure how to word the complaint to the bailiff but will use parts of your letter and work around that. I will give them their 14 days then straight to court (Form 4) of which I will seek advice from here in due course. I saw the copy of the judgement seanamarts posted about illegal entry and keep that in mind too although I appreciate it is my word against his but either could be right or wrong. I will prepare for the court thing nearer the time. Any pointers on the Bailiff complaint will obviously still be gladly recieved! . To be honest, I see that having no effect but you never know. Perhaps the Director of Operations will call again, I will look forward to that with glee. Refund and compensation in return for no further action or lose 2 bailiffs. Wishful thinking on my part possibly This WILL be going all the way Thank you so much so far, I tried tipping your scales a hundred times but alas I could not, darnit!:grin: Sewing

Rae, Thank you so much, that is wonderful. I'll have a read right now. Sew

Thanks Rae, I will await your prosaic creation later, please take you're time. Thank you Sew