could not agree more ,... and good luck also if you are one who will go to all lengths to not pay ,.. why should you pay if been getting screwed for years ,.. (excuse the French),... and if disclosure can prove you concerns , then if not disclosing you are at risk of any loss , then this is FRAUD regardless how you ask ,.. no room for none complience in the law my friend regardless how you ask ,..

I do not agree ,... its fraud if they do not disclose information requested ,.. simple as, why bring out a newish law if old law was replaced because of flaws and loopholes ,.. NOT TO GO TO ALL LENGTHS TO AVOID PAYING..... well if you are implying to me as sounds the case ,.. then yes I will go to all lenghts not to pay , on unfair conditions , if lenders do not safegaurd the consumer then its only right that agreement should be unenforceable do you not agree??????????????

Hi ,... think you might find this helpful in your search Fraud by failing to disclose information A person is in breach of this section if he— (a) dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and (b) intends, by failing to disclose the information— (i) to make a gain for himself or another, or (ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss. watch them move ,..

Hi *on*the*case,... yes seem to be making progress ,..but still it is no compliance , the above letter arrived today ,... from RESOLUTION MANAGER ,.. But I was waiting to see if anyone spotted what I could see or was thinking was wrong and mis-leading information ,... My request was under the CPR for underwriters sheets,.. it was not a complaint at all and these know that ,.. plus was advised if I was not happy in 4 weeks time with G E's proposal for resolution , then I should contact FOS ,... THIS IS TOTALLY MIS-LEADING / AND NOW FALLS INTO FRAUD ACT 2006 As G E know my agreement was pre 2007 , so not regulated by FOS ,.. SO FRAUD AS MIS-LEADING ADVICE ,... and have it in black & white ,.. plus the fact they want to deal with it in house ,... NO WAY will I fall for it again ,.. let them deal with it in house in 2008 ,.. left it for 15 month then tried to Evict us , and arrears are the missed payments over that time and charges ,... the payments we were told would be frozen whilst in dispute ,..

LATEST UPDATE : GOOD NEWS (I THINK) Well Folks ,.. just recieved a letter of G E Money ,... I sent off my formal letter last week giving a final 7 days to reply ,.. that time scale passed ,.. plus considering I give them a extra 2 weeks as xmas period and did not want to risk stike out at court,... anyways the letter is not what I was expecting at all ,.. They thank me for my letter and started by saying SORRY your original letter/request was unanswered I'm keen to resolve your complaint fairly and as quickly as possible , (and then ask for a further 4 weeks to investigate my complaint (4 weeks / they have had 7 weeks now to supply agreement/underwriters sheet under CPR 31.16 request ,.. ) further on in the letter they state they would be happy to deal with this complaint , (its not a complaint , its a request for agreement ) and give me a booklet how to refer my complaint to FOS ,.. should I be unhappy with G E's proposal for resolution.. (so looks like we are making waves),... also letter finishes by saying: if you have any further information that may help me in my investigation , or you need assistance in the meantime , please contact me on the above number , I will be happy to hear from you yours sincerely YOURS SINCERELY ,.... this was not the case in December when they tried to take our family home , just before xmas,.. after 15 months with no contact ,.. 15 month ago they offered to do the same ,.. then I left it with them to deal with in house ,... 15 month pass (no payments) ,.. then 15 month down the line ; GIVE US YOUR HOME YOU WILL BE EVICTED IN 3 WEEKS ,... not falling for this again ,... what are everyones thoughts on this ,... should I just continue with legal proceedings come Monday ,.. to get them to disclose what I requested ,.. ?????????? :-)

well done Sparkie & antiestablishment ,... excellent info ,.. something to sink my teeth into ,.. thanks

Hi Vint , thanks for your informed input,... It was a secured loan , secured on our property ,.. a secured loan till the solicitor pointed out that it was in fact a mortgage ,.. if I was to take another mortgage (*second mortgage) then I would of just remortgaged so only 1 morgage in place ,.. plus the way it was advanced says to me that it was a secured loan as I thought it was , ,... you have possibly highlighted another concern ,..

no thoughts anyone?????????

Well Folks ,.. just recieved a letter of G E Money ,... I sent off my formal letter last week giving a final 7 days to reply ,.. that time scale passed ,.. plus considering I give them a extra 2 weeks as xmas period and did not want to risk stike out at court,... anyways the letter is not what I was expecting at all ,.. They thank me for my letter and started by saying SORRY your original letter/request was unanswered I'm keen to resolve your complaint fairly and as quickly as possible , (and then ask for a further 4 weeks to investigate my complaint (4 weeks / they have had 7 weeks now to supply agreement/underwriters sheet under CPR 31.16 request ,.. ) further on in the letter they state they would be happy to deal with this complaint , (its not a complaint , its a request for agreement ) and give me a booklet how to refer my complaint to FOS ,.. should I be unhappy with G E's proposal for resolution.. (so looks like we are making waves),... also letter finishes by saying: if you have any further information that may help me in my investigation , or you need assistance in the meantime , please contact me on the above number , I will be happy to hear from you yours sincerely YOURS SINCERELY ,.... this was not the case in December when they tried to take our family home , just before xmas,.. after 15 months with no contact ,.. 15 month ago they offered to do the same ,.. then I left it with them to deal with in house ,... 15 month pass (no payments) ,.. then 15 month down the line ; GIVE US YOUR HOME YOU WILL BE EVICTED IN 3 WEEKS ,... not falling for this again ,... what are everyones thoughts on this ,... should I just continue with legal proceedings come Monday ,.. to get them to disclose what I requested ,.. ?????????? :)

yes was secured on property as second charge mortgage ,... £31k ,... £3700(restricted credit) sent as cheque to pay off credit card , £1400 arrears on first mortgage , and £25,900 advanced into my account (unrestricted),.. so should of been part regulated ,& part unregulated

Hi diddydicky ,... no probably the way I have tried to explain ,.. so here goes again ,.. I have a loan with G E Money , which is in arrears , last payment was made august 2008 ,... I was at court in the march of that year , arrears were £1500 . I had a suspended possession , that I paided monthly payment of £250 and i offered to pay an extra £250 off arrears ,... first payment march / last payment August ,.. £250 per month x 6 months = £1500 arreas cleared up ,... I contact G E Money at the beginning of August for a statement as I wanted proof I had cleared arrears ,.. I got a statement ok ,... when the statement arrived I was horrified,... I would make payments of £500 (normal monthly payment + £250 off arrears ) ,.. well statement show arrears had increased over time ,.. I noticed 7 days after payment G E kindly charged me £335 interest charge ,..finally reaching £405 per month interest ,.. so in fact the £250 arrears payment was eaten up from interest , plus added £85 / £165 per month to arrears ,.. so arrears were now in fact higher then previous 6 months when I was at court,.. obviously I contacted them straight away as I was really concerned as family home at risk ,.. I called G E and requested the agreement as I was going to contact solicitor regarding this as not right at all and unfair conditions,.. I was advised that it would be dealt with in house and that while in dispute payments would be frozen ,.. so 15 month passed by , then out the blue a letter from G E saying eviction would take place in 3 weeks time ,.. (just before xmas) ,... arrears £5700 ,.. these arrears stacked up over the 15 month ,.. the 15 month the account was in dispute and the lenders advised they would deal with it in house and freeze payments ,... well obviously I appealled eviction and thought best thing to do sell family home to get away from all the stresses as very ill with stress and depression ,.. but after reading up on forum and taking a little legal advice was prepared to give it a final shot to save home ,... I was going to dispute total agreement so requested the agreement under the CPR 31,16 ,.... the lenders have still not complied ,... but after more reading , I have decided to deal with arrears seperately on the grounds I state as easier to prove ,..... but still continued with agreement request as I will challenge the agreement under a different courtcase ,... at least the threat of eviction will be gone and have all the time in the world to expose this agreement ,.. as i know brokers fees were added to toal credit amount and been subject to interest charges for the last 7 years ,.. with the companies involved I believe a secret commission was paid ,.. also it was restricted credit and none restricted credit merged into one agreement ,.. no terms in place for either part the agreement ,.. no true costs of brokers fee or terms in place ,.. plus should of been multiple agreement ,.. and as restricted credit was £3,700 , should be regulated under CCA ,.. thats why their wanted to deal with this in house ,... then leave it for 15 months ,.. remember I was on a suspended repossession order ,.. they could of evicted the week after I never paid ,.. so in august 08 G E could of taken possession , why wait 15 month ,... surely the timescale tells a story in itself ,... hope this explains ,.. and any help will be greatly appreciated ,

go into home page ,.. look at the subjects down the side ,.. click one ,.. at the top should sat start thread ,.. click this and fire away ,..

Guy's I am getting lost ,.. my court proceedings are for my arrears on account ,.. I will deal with this seperate ,.. I have requested my agreement / underwriters sheet as I dispute agreement and believe secret commissions , plus my brokers fee added to total amount of credit ,.. once I clear up arrears ,.. I will be free to challenge the agreement as I believe not properly executed ,.. so will be 2 seperate courtcases ,.. and I will be taking legal proceedings againts lenders for disclosure of agreement as that will be part my case ,.. so hopefully I have followed this thread correctly as PT advised , in getting my agreement ,.. come on PT is this not correct ,.. THANKS DOTTY X

Hi ,.. yes I seek to address secret commission , plus other points what I can see are wrong like brokers fees added to total amount of credit ,.. no terms in place ,.. I have followed your advice PT , from the beginning of this thread ,.. here is a link to my thread unegulated secured second charges !now covered by CCA 2006? any advice or thoughts would be great ,.. thanks best wishes sorry how do I add a link ?

Hi Shadow,.... yes I am looking for disclosure under 36.16 ,.. lenders started legal proceedings regarding arrears , which is quite a while away , I intend to start legal proceedings for underwriters sheet as I know this agreement is not properly executed ,..

What if lenders have instructed legal proceeding ? then correct route would be CPR.31.16 ,.. is this correct? I have requested underwriters sheet ,.. and sent off formal letter ,.. might try the excellent letter above by Vint,... but change the bits to say CPR REQUEST ,... tomorrow is deadline day ,... none complience

Thanks Andrew , your words are always taken on board ,.. how's things hope all is well oh yeah 3 more days and it will be legal proceeedings to get disclosure ,.. so once I have proper agreement will post up for you all to have a pick at it ,.. thats if their have the agreement ,..

Hi Frettful ,.. I wil give you my opinion , but remember it is only my opinion , but I do not just pluck reasons out my head , I read a lot and try and piece things together from judgements and case laws ,.. I would say straight away that your agreement should of definately been a multiple agreement ,.. as definately restricted and unrestricted credit ,.. and if you only recieved £8,134.14 (then this is the unrestricted credit , ) no restrictions on this advance , as could spend as you pleased ,.. and also covered by the CCA ,.. so the other amount is restricted credit ,.. as you had no access to this amount ,.. and the £26,865.86 was it 1 loan or a few? ,.. this is quite important as if a few then each part would be covered by CCA ,.. so all regulated ,.. together it looks unregulated as over the £25k ,... but if made up of a few different loans , then each part is regulated ,.. and should be a regulated multiple agreement ,..your brokers fee should never be subject to interest charges ,.. and if added to loan it certainly will be subject to interest ,.. (this should have own terms in place , and be stated as regulated & covered by CCA ,..) if not then not properly executed ,.. no terms = not propely executed = unenforceable ,.. so when it is added to amount of credit ,.. this would render all previous payments incorrect ,.. and all future payments would be incorrect ,.. as interest added would certainly be incorrect as the brokers fee should not be added to amount of credit ,.. and it should be expressed that if part of an agreement is incorrect , then this should render this agreement void , as not executed properly ,.. if part the agreement is classed as not properly executed as Balance (with brokers fee is incorrect ) then all other parts must be correct and shows this , as the balance or amount of credit from day one was incorrect ,.. so everything else falls fowl of a propely executed agreement ,... think of it this way ,.. if foundations on a building is not properly constructed , then the rest of the build will witness problems ,.. same as part your agreement ,.. everything must be correct from the beginning to see the building pass the test of time ,.. same as agreement , if properly executed then agreements would pass the test of time and always be enforceable ,... but cut corners and that building will some day fall ,.. lenders have cut corners (big time ) and not only will it forgo the test of time , it will crumble eventually ,... well hope this helps Fretfull , best wishes and good luck in your journey

Fretfull it really depends on the way your advance was forwarded to you ,.. if you can prove that the amount you had available (unrestricted was different to the loan amount ,.. then bingo this is proof ,.. as it proves you only had xxx amount to spend as you pleased ,..) so the oher was restricted credit otherwise would be in your account when you recieved advance ,.. the reason your advance is lower then original loan is because this was restricted credit ,.. so if only wrtten out as 1 agreement then surely with the proof of advance the agreement would not be executed properly , so unenforceable ,.. but thats just my thoughts ,.. but these thoughts are taken from law ,..

Maybe so , but can see the point the barrister for lenders put across , that if mrs Heath paid the previous debt before she collected her loan from solicitors she could of had the full amount of the loan as unrestricted credit ,... well my case is very different and I was sent a cheque to cover previous debt and unrestricted credit into my bank account of another figure ,.. (minus this cheque) so proof that he agreement should of been a multiple agreement , which would be part regulated / part none regulated ,.. plus my brokers fees added to amount of credit ,.. this is a charge for credit and should have its own terms in place ,.. so regardless of restricted and unrestricted credit , the agreement should be multiple , simple as the brokers agreement would render this as such ,.. then i believe secret commissions ,. that surely needs own terms and my signature in place ,.. and thats just the tip of the iceberg with my agreement , many more serious flaws ,.. and I will travel every avenue in proving my case and point out these breaches ,.. sorry to ramble on ,..

I think I will request other info from G E ,.. but can not see them complying as proving the case with CPR request ,..

Hi there again , can not really contact the lenders as yet or the FOS , as I have no agreement to go off ,.. I have requested this CPR 31.16 , formal letter sent today , so only another 7 days and I will be starting legal proceeding for DISCLOSURE ONLY,.. not contesting anything as yet ,.. once we have underwriters sheet then we can see were we go from there ,..

Yes I said I would sell the house ,.. but the charges I dispute would be cleared as these would be added to the amount owed to G E ,.. so put the sale on hold , whilst I dispute this arrears amount ,.. I intend to contact the FOS , and hopefully point out all the charges and interest charges whilst I was paying arrears ,.. I put in my defence for eviction order to be suspended as I also dispute arrears , and the judge said it was something I needed to chase up ,.. thanks for yur reply best wishes

So how can they get away with it ,.. obviously this must breach the license they hold ,..you should not be able to pursue a debt if you do not have a signed agreement ,.. as the agreement would be the answer to all doubts and concerns ,.. so why are we not give the info when by not providing them they breach the license ,.. so if our judges are not prepared to listen because what hangs on things , then what would be the next step in getting justice ,.. as if the Minister of justice word means nothing , then who do we turn to ,... do we just say right , do as you feel fit ,.. as nothing we can do , and no court will go against you's , so yes whatever you say goes ,... because to me , thats what it sounds like ,.. and seems to be the case after consumer after consumer are defeated in court even when going off previous precedents ,.. it totally wrong ,.. but what can you do?

absolute joke ,.. prove secret commission for disclosure ,... disclosure will prove everything so why twist it round , thought the proving laid with the lenders ,..