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Posts posted by HadEnough

  1. If you have never requested a CCA from Cabot .....yes.Also nothing to stop a creditor assigning a debt in dispute.


    I was told it couldn't be passed on when it's in dispute without a final response.


    I have spoken with Restons and they are refusing to extend the date for defence as they believe the CPR and CCA information has no bearing on my defence. I have asked for this in writing. They are being very uncooperative.


    In the mean time i have been on to the guy handling my FOS complaint at Sainsbury's and he is sending me a copy of the original credit agreement hopefully before the defence date.


    What should i do now?

    Can i say in the defence that i have no proof they own the debt until i receive the CCA & CPR paperwork back from them?

    Do I still maintain that it is made of penalty charges?

    I'm really worrying now, I need to file my defence by weds...

  2. Help anyone?


    I have sent cpr request


    should i send cca request too even though i have the credit agreement?


    also, sainsbury's have been in touch to say the have the statements and paperwork which they will send out.

    Am i still ok to defend the full claim once Ive receive these?


    It will take some time to go through and see what i actually do owe if anything at all after charges and interest are taken off.


    i am also wondering whether they might drop the whole claim if i show them in my defence that the account

    was definitely indispute when it was passed to debt collectors...

  3. You could CPR 31.14 for the NoA...and CCA section 78 for the credit agreement.






    Thnaks for responding


    I am sending a CPR today,

    they have already sent me a copy of the credit agreement, it is hard to read the T&C's as its a photocopy


    The problem is that i only have till the 23rd of july to file my defence.

    I do not know what to put on the form.


    I havent mentioned that before I came on to this site for advice

    I trawled the internet debt advice websites where I was advised to contact the FOS by the National Debt Line.


    I called them on the friday before i went away and made an official complaint against the OD as advised.

    While I was away I received a call from the OD,

    they were courtious and were asking what the issue was.


    I spoke with them regarding the account being in dispute when it was passed on to DCA

    and the penalty charges being added while the account was in dispute.


    He said he would look into my account and see what he could find but as it was more than 6 years ago

    they may not have any account information on the debt.

    If it was passed on he said they may not be able to provide anything at all.


    IF so, this means that the only statements for the account start from after when the AVI was set up

    and shows when it ended that I was paying the minimum again

    but the penalty charges and interest were more

    and therefore not bringing me back into my arranged credit limit.


    Do i file a defence based on the account being made up mainly of penalty charges and interest

    and that the account was in dispute when many of them were being applied?


    Should i also state that sainsburys passed the debt without sendinga a final response to the dispute?


    The only paperwork i have recieved from the claimant is the credit agreement statements from the last six years

    showing clearly that penalty charges and interest were being applied

    and the minimum i was paying was not bringing it back into my credit limit.


    I have posted regarding my fos complaint with sainsburys on the post before.

    I think this is relevant as they have said they might not be able to provide me with account statements beyond 6 years.

    This would make it impossibe for me to know exactly what is charges and what is not

  4. I am going to leave my acknowledgement of service until mon pm just before I leave for the airport.


    If anyone can shed some light on my situation by then that's great.


    I really want to know before I reply to the courts whether I should defend all of the claim or only part of it?

    If i defend only part as I do know a small amount that isn't penalty charges and interest,

    i need to give a figure that I believe I owe.


    I simply cannot do this before I go away due to work commitments and I may not have all the statements

    ( after working it out it may turn out that I do not owe anything too).


    If I do have a reasonable argument for the way I have been treated

    and I can defend all of the claim on these grounds I would like to know.


    I SAR sainsburys and received only statements a few years back.

  5. Hi All,


    My problem is this (this could turn into a rant due to me frustration, so apologies now lol):


    I got a credit card with Sainsburys bank in 2003


    In 2006 I had an accident and ended up out of work,

    as a result i incurred an awful lot of overlimit and unpaid DD charges plus interest.


    I went for debt advice and was told to offer a £1 a week for the foreseeable future while I got back on my feet.

    (At the same time I nearly lost my house and had to VS my car and i was suffering with anxiety and depression)


    What I wasn't told by Sainsbury's Bank is that the agreement to pay a £1 stopped after 12 months.

    I didn't receive a letter to inform me of this until I received a letter saying thank you for setting up a DD.


    By then they had started charging my account with interest and all the charges.

    The DD were coming out at the minimum but the chrages and interest were swallowing it up

    and I was not paying anything off at all.


    After getting advice I put the account into dispute (which I was told would freeze interest and charges while we worked it out)

    This did not happen and they continued to take payments.

    (this was causing me to incur bank charges too so I cancelled the DD that I didn't set up in the first place.


    I sent out a letter of complaint and officially put the account in dispute.

    We negotiated via letter ( some of which I have) and they offered to refund a small amount of the charges.


    While this was going on they were still sending debt collection letters too)

    I sent a letter saying thank you for your offer however I will only accept a full refund of all charges and interest applied to my account,

    I then said I would then be willing to set up a standing order to pay back an amount that I could afford per month

    and obviously not use the card again...


    I never received a reply although I sent the letter 3 times recorded delivery (I might have the proof somewhere...)


    While awaiting a response it was passed to a debt collection agency,

    then another,

    then another

    and has been so for the past 5 years.


    In this time I have attempted to sort this out by explaining to the debt companies that the account is still in dispute

    but they will not listen and insist I owe it.


    The amount in question is £2770, the majority of this is charges applied before and during the dispute.


    I received yet another different debt agency letter last year and stupidly thought that I was over the 6 year mark.

    The reason for this is that I did not ask or acknowledge the debt willingly after they revoked the £1 agreement

    and forgot that they had took it upon themselves to set it up themselves.

    (they have also done this in 2011 with my new account, I have no idea how they got my bank details)

    They didn't take anything and a dd wasn't registered with the bank so I must have cancelled it in time)


    As I have had approx 8 different debt agencies sending letters but never taking it to court

    I assumed it was because they knew that an account with charges etc was not going to be an easy one to win.


    I wanted to get this resolved but my experience of courts has not been a fair one.


    I have a letter stating that I am seriously disputing the amount owed

    and i have a response from Sainsbury's offering a refund of some of the charges.


    Can anyone offer advice on where I stand with this please?


    If I have to pay all of this when I did try to resolve it 5 years ago I will be devastated,

    especially as most of it is unlawful penalty charges...


    Sorry for such a long post andthanks in advance.

  6. Before I give up on this problem, I would like to know if anyone thinks there is anything else i can do. The injustice of what has happened is really getting to me. Is it six years from cause of action or when i found out about it? I know we've already gone on about this however i just wanted to get peoples opinions one last time. I was going to complain to fos but it's past the 6 month mark. Could i do anything else?

  7. Thank you for your comments, i am waiting for the solicitor to contact me with regards to the part 36 offer.

    I have asked what I shoukd expect the success fee to be and that I would make an offer after I have an idea of that. I also want to ask what else I need to take into consideration costs wise that isnt yet on the claim.

    As far the attempted house sale in 2010, I do have all the reports regarding this matter, it is looking like its going in my favour however i am glad of your explanation and i heed your warning. I really do want this settled asap but wanted to make sure I get as much as I am entitled to.


    Can you tell me what is meant when they claim for 'damages' though please?

  8. Hi

    I currently have had a negligence claim issued against the structual engineer and the surveyor of my property,

    as a result of their negligence i have not been able to sell my property with out work being done to rectify the problem.


    I contacted a no win no fee solicitor and they have taken the case on,

    an expert witness has agreed there is negligence

    however it has been decided that both engineer and surveyor are liable.


    As a result they have now served the claim form against both and I received the following email on friday.


    what I am having trouble understanding is why the CFA I signed in 2011 does not cover the barristers success fee and as a result I have to pay a maximum 25% of the money i recover from one defendant to them.


    My paperwork says that it is reclaimed from the otherside.


    Also, they are asking me to consider making an offer to settle it early

    however i do not know exactly what the claim is worth as the claim was made for the amount for fixing the problem, plus £1000 for loss of enjoyment plus damages (which I have no idea what this includes or refers to)


    The house has also lost value since I attempted to sell it in 2010 so i will lose out there too.

    There is also other costs such as accomodation whilst works are completed which they have asked me to give a cost of.


    The reason i have posted this is because I am now concerned that my solicitor might be looking for the easiest option and rather than looking after my best interests and getting me what I deserve.


    I would like advice on whether this is how these claims usually proceed and could i be losing out if I make an offer?

    Is there anything I can ask the solicitor to ensure that are acting in my best interests?

    Is the explanation on the CFA in the email correct?

    Thanks for any help/advice given.





    Email from solicitor


    I am writing to update you in relation to your claim.


    As you are aware, I served the Claim Form and Particulars of Claim in Decemberl ast year on both --------.


    I am pleased to confirm that both Defendants have instructed solicitors;

    These are both firms I have dealt with on many occasions, as they often act for professional indemnity insurers.


    I have spoken to the solicitors at both firms dealing with the claim.


    As you may recall, it was necessary to issue a protective Claim Form in August last year in order to avoid your claim becoming statute barred.


    I delayed service of the court papers until such time as we had obtained expert evidence,

    as it was not entirely clear when the claim was issued whether liability rested with either or both Defendants.


    In Professional Negligence Claims, there is a protocol which the Courts require the parties to follow which,

    amongst other things, sets various time limits by which certain stages of the litigation process have to be carried out.


    Ordinarily, a Letter of Claim is sent to the Defendant(s)following which they have 21 days to acknowledge the Letter of Claim and thereafter 3 months from the date of the Letter of Acknowledgement to provide their formal response known as the Letter of Response, in which they need to state whether they accept or deny liability.


    It is not uncommon, and it is the case here, that we have had to issue protective court proceedings before the Letter of Claim has been sent.


    Accordingly, the way that this is dealt with is to stay theproceedings to enable the Protocol to be complied with, i.e. a Letter of Claim sent and a Letter of Response provided by the Defendant.


    In light ofthis, having spoken to the Defendants’ solicitors, we have agreed a stay of approximately 3 months to 2014 so effectively, the court proceedings are now “on hold” to allow the Protocol to be complied with.


    However, interestingly, when I mentioned to solicitors that I would shortly prepare a Letter of Claim,

    they were of the view that all the information they needed was in the Particulars of Claim therefore,

    it was not necessary to repeat this information in the Letter of Claim (as it will obviously increase legal costs).


    Instead, solicitor hasasked me to provide any documentation in my possession by way of disclosure so that they can assess the merits of your claim.

    They made the point thatbecause the alleged negligence took place so long ago,

    their client is of the view that they are unlikely to have retained any paperwork

    and so they are really reliant on your documentation.


    The courts positively encourage early disclosure of documentation and certainly, if the Letter of Claim had been drafted before court proceedings were issued,I would have provided thisi nformation with the Letter of Claim.


    Accordingly, I will now go through the paperwork that you provided to me (it is not particularly voluminous)

    and I will provide a copy of any documents, which are disclosable to solicitors.


    They then intend to review the paperwork and they can utilise the period of the stay in which to do so.


    I mentioned to solicitors that solicitors had confirmed they did not require a Letter of Claim.

    However, they did not give me a substantive response at that time whether they were prepared to take the same view, and so I will write to them shortly to establish whether they simply wish me to provide disclosure of the same documents provided to and simply rely on your case as pleaded in the Particulars of Claim.


    In the meantime, I indicated on a without prejudice basis to solicitors (I did not unfortunately have the same conversation with solicitors as the solicitor was rushing to leave the office before the Christmas break and so the focus was on agreeing the Consent Order) that early settlement of this claim would be preferable before legal costs increase.


    As I am sure you will appreciate, it would be easy for legal costs to escalate and become disproportionate to the value of the claim,particularly as there are a total of 3 sets of solicitors involved in this matter.


    I therefore suggest that you consider putting in an early offer of settlement at this stage.


    We have quantified your claim to the extent of the cost of the rectification works and a nominal amount for stress and inconvenience but there are other elements of your claim that still require quantification.

    For example, you mention that you would need to be out of your property for up to 8 weeks whilst remedial works are carried out.

    Are you able to provide me with an indication of what your likely costs of accommodation would be during that time?

    Once we have a better idea ofthe total value of your claim, you will need to consider the level of offer that you wish me to put forward on your behalf.

    The idea is to put forward an offer that will hopefully be seen as commercially attractive to the Defendants and as such, you have to be seen in making the offer to be conceding some ground on the full amount that you are claiming.


    The offer is without prejudice and is made for the purposes of negotiating settlement only;

    the Court would not be shown the offer during a trial when they are determining what damages to award you if you have succeeded on the issue of liability.


    The offer made would be done so as what is known as a Part 36 Offer.

    The advantage of making a Part 36 Offer is that it can provide costs protection.

    Once we have a figure in mind, I will explain to you in greater detail the implications in relation to costs of making a Part 36 Offer.


    In considering what level of offer to make, I would also like to remind you that your barrister does have concerns about the quotations you provided, which I share.


    I appreciate that when we have previouslyspoken, you have stated that the works required will not form any betterment of your property but I still think that this could be the subject of some attack and so this needs to be reflected in any offer that you consider putting forward. In making the offer,


    I would also be suggesting to the Defendants (as I will be putting the offer to both of them) that liability is apportioned on a 50:50 basis.


    Obviously, once the Defendants havereviewed the papers, they may be of the view that one party has greater liability than the other on a percentage basis or alternatively, one or both Defendants may deny liability entirely but if that is the case, it does not necessarily mean that they will not look to settle the matter commercially.


    At the end of the day, if, for example, the offer you put forward was £, it is much more attractive to a Defendant to know that they would actually only be paying £ each.


    Finally, I need to explain a funding issue with you. As you are aware, you entered into a Conditional Fee Agreement with this firm,which covered your claim against and was worded so that it covered any other Defendant related to the matter.


    In light of this, your CFA with this firm covers your claim against both defendants, which is obviously advantageous to you, as it became apparent very close to limitation that may potentially have some liability in this matter.


    However, I have been contacted by your barrister, and she has looked at the wording of her Conditional Fee Agreement and it covers the claim against one only.


    This means that the CFA does not cover the work that she has carried out in relation to ,

    albeit that they are inexorably linked.


    Her clerk has therefore just sent to me another CFA for this firm to enter into with Counsel, which covers the claim against .


    The second Conditional Fee Agreement covers all work that Counsel had carried out on or after December 2013 (which isthe date that she drafted the Particulars of Claim) in relation to Group.


    However, in April of this year, some sweeping reforms, called the Jackson reforms, took place and the basis of Conditional Fee Agreements changed at that time.


    Prior to 1st April 2013, parties entering into a Conditional Fee Agreement were able to charge the Defendant

    (in the event that the claim was successful) a success fee in addition to their base costs.


    Post 1st April, the solicitor/barrister entering into a Conditional Fee Agreement is no longer able to recover a success fee from the Defendant and instead is entitled to recover up to 25% of the settlement or judgement sum awarded to the Claimant.

    This means that in the event that I recoverdamages for you, whilst I will recover my costs,

    disbursements and success feefrom the Defendants and Counsel will recover her fees and success fee from the Defendant, the extent to which she will be able to recover her fees in this way only extends to ,

    as that is the Defendant covered by the original CFA that Counsel entered into.


    In respect of Counsel’s fees relating to work carried out in respect of after 6th December, Counsel would still be able to claim her base costs from but would be able to charge you up to 25% of your damages under the new regime.

    Whilst this is the technicality’s of the new regime’s CFA, I have spoken to Counsel

    and she had indicated that she would be prepared to take a pragmatic view on theproportion of your damages that she would actually seek to recover from you.

    Would you please confirm that you are happy for me to enterinto the second CFA with Counsel.

  9. Hi HE


    First off .... familiarise yourself with the CCA 1974..section 9 (4)...to satisfy yourself that - the LAW says....:

    "For the purposes of this Act, an item entering into the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for payment"

    Then check your Agreement...I can see that they have included the Total Charge for Credit into the amount of the loan...this causes the % APR ....to be totally out of sink with what you are supposed to have repaid under the loan....this affects the 'third way mark' and absolutely everything else to do with the Agreement....oooops!


    They are not allowed to do that....


    Then...look up The Consumer Credit (Total Charge for Credit and Rebate on Early Settlement) (Amendment) Regulations 1989.... I think it is Section 20 you need to be aware of....


    The OFT (Office of Fair Trading) refer to the above regulation in their Guide to Credit Charges and APR - Sept 2007 (check to see if they have updated it since...)


    The OFT have a APR 'Ready Reckoner' on line....pop the figures shown on the Agreement to satisfy yourself that the figures (as you have already found) definitely will not 'stack up'.......oooops!


    That should keep you busy for a while.... I'll get back to you soon ; )




    Ok Thats interesting news...

    i will do some reading thanks. Got to say though that my understanding of legal wording and jargon is very limited. I'm sure its done in purpose...

  10. No, I have not received a PM from you..... : (


    However, as I said - I have not forgotten about you......


    What I can advise at this point is there is no true 'rush' to deal with your creditors.....


    The Claim is being framed ..... I have spotted that your agreement was void from the outset...... I am framing your claim to that effect as a draft for your consideration....


    If the Creditor contacts you in the meantime... advise you are following through on their advise to seek redress via other channels... and always remind them that the matter as far as you are concerned remains in dispute....


    Hope this helps for now.....to keep you in the 'loop' so's to speak.... ; )




    Good morning Apple

    I thank you for 'keeping me in the loop',

    I have been checking my thread everyday.


    I realise that you must be helping others and obviously have a life of your own.


    I feel bad that I can't do anything to help.

    If there is anything You can advise me to do please let me know.


    I will pm you again as the information I want to give you is of a personal nature.


    In the meantime I patiently await your response (with quite a lot of intrigue)

  11. Morning HE


    This is a BIG 'ASK'.....and I am sorry to put you to this trouble....but.....


    I am working from my desktop....cannot see the letter you posted up clearly on my desktop - this computer is very old (like me I'm afraid..lol)


    Would you mind......typing up and posting on the thread ...... the content of the last letter they sent to you please?


    Can all confirm for me please...... are we all agreed that because the debt is still being pursued that the 'agreement' is still 'live'??




    Sorry I haven't replied earlier, I have only just seen your message.

  12. As requested the contents of the letter, it is the least I can do being as you are giving me so much of your precious time.



    I write further to your letter date 8th Sept 203and apologies for the delay in responding. From your letter I understand thatyou do not feel we have resolved your complaint. Therefore I can confirm that Ihave reviewed the account again and this letter stands as my final response.




    With regards to the notice of default and termination,unfortunately I only have First National screen comments to confirm what datethese were issued on. According to the notes there is a 4 day period betweenthe dates which the two letters were issued. In addition to this the account wasnot transferred to Bluestone Credit Management Ltd till after the 6thMay 2005 therefore up until this point despite being terminated First Nationalwas will for you to pay the arrears outlined in the Notice of Default andcontinue with the agreement. Further to this the breach outlined in the noticeof default dated 8th April 2005 is not remedied. While you did makea payment of £100 which reduced the default figure of £706.01 you did not clearthe remainder of the default figure by the termination or by the 6thMay 2005 when the account was passed to BCM. I understand from the screencomments it states ‘kept promise and payment received’ on the 11thApril 2005 however this merely referrers to the £100 token payment and not theremaining arrears which stood at £631.01 as quoted on the screen notes dated 25thApril 2005.




    Therefore the facts stand that you failed to remedy thenotice of default by the date of termination or by the date that the agreementwas transferred to BCM. At the meeting that took place on 9th June2005 you agreed, following a discussion with our field agent to voluntary surrenderthe vehicle thus waving the need for a return of goods to be issued through theCourts. By signing a voluntary surrender form you agreed to pay any remainingshortfall once sale proceeds had been credited to your account.

  13. Hi HE


    We need to be sure that they have definitely concluded that there is no more that they can or are willing to do.....


    Can you call them on Monday Morning and make enquiry please....simply refer to your letter/s sent and enquire what is going on?..... Ask them straight....Are they still looking into the matter....or not?


    If Not....ask them to write to confirm this asap.


    If they are still looking into it...i.e the lady dealing with it is on hols or whatever....we want to know for sure......and we want it in writing if they have no intent to take the matter further...ok?




    Hi Apple

    They definitely don't intend to take the complaint further and have now referred me to the financial ombudsman service...

  14. I found this while googling default notice requirements in 2005. Found the last paragraph interesting as it says information on VT should be provided with DN...


    Gerry Sutcliffe (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Employment Relations and Consumer Affairs), Department of Trade and Industry; Bradford South, Labour)

    Creditors currently have to provide a default notice under section 87 of the 1974 Act. They must do so if they wish to terminate the agreement or take any precautionary action for its breach. We are not changing the basic requirements, but there are amendments to the time of those requirements. Subsection (1) extends the period after which the notice is served before the creditor or owner may take action against the debtor or hirer from seven to 14 days. Any creditor or owner already waits that long. The period gives the debtor or hirer an opportunity to remedy the default or negotiate an alternative arrangement.

    We are also amending the current requirements, permitting the Secretary of State to prescribe the information to be included in the notice, and requiring the creditor or owner to attach a default information sheet prepared by the Office of Fair Trading. We shall consult on the information to be required, which might cover some of the concerns that the hon. Gentleman raised.

    We intend to include information about whether the agreement includes an interest after judgment clause, as well as a reminder to consumers of the right to voluntary termination under sections 99 and 100 of the 1974 Act. The default information sheet will include information to help debtors or hirers who receive a default notice. The clause ensures that debtors or hirers receive impartial information at a critical time and have sufficient time to act on it. I hope that that will help the hon. Gentleman to accept the clause.

  15. Hi HE


    We need to be sure that they have definitely concluded that there is no more that they can or are willing to do.....


    Can you call them on Monday Morning and make enquiry please....simply refer to your letter/s sent and enquire what is going on?..... Ask them straight....Are they still looking into the matter....or not?


    If Not....ask them to write to confirm this asap.


    If they are still looking into it...i.e the lady dealing with it is on hols or whatever....we want to know for sure......and we want it in writing if they have no intent to take the matter further...ok?




    I have called bluestone and was put thorough to the lady dealing with it.


    She said she is intending to respond and has started drafting a letter.


    She didn't attempt to discuss anything about the complaint.


    The lady that answered initially said that they were contacting their client first national first before proceeding.


    Strange, first national isn't trading anymore and bluestone now own my debt...


    I should expect a letter thurs onwards

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