not good see my other thread disciplinary while under doctors note

if I thought that i had any chance i would go for it,, without a doubt,,,, injustice in any form is my pet hate, unfortuneatly it does apper i can't advance this without risking my home, ie. if i lose then i'm liable for their cost's. yes they have ignored ALL my very limited rights, but i have no re-course in law i.e,, unless i've been employed for 12 months, then i can only claim WRONGFULL DISMISSAL, the only award for wrongful dismissal is, notice as per contract,, they have already paid that, so i have NOT GOT A CLAIM,,,,,,, boy am i mad about that!!!!!

and 1 other point is that i know of at least 1 other person, who has had more time off sick than me, and SHE has been there 2 months less than me, and SHE is being considered for promotion,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm not willing to drop her in it though,,, we are good friends and i've lost enough without losing my friends,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how wrong is this

you know the most annoying thing about all this,,, if i'd contracted any one of these illness's next month, i'd be protected, no problem, could anyone explain to me how this is right......

I spoke to an employment specialist today, he said the only claim i can put in (because i've only been employed for 11 months) is for my notice pay, if they have paid this (which they have) then i can't take them to a tribunal, not even to clear my name and to prevent them putting my so called poor attendence record (no matter how ill i am) on any future reference, wrong i know, but it appears that being a white, English male, with no recognised disabilty and straight, out weights my rights to a fair hearing. I know i sound bitter, but thats because i am

hi fiesty, i've today spoke to an employment lawyer, they say the only way i could take it further is if they have not paid me notice. well they did today. i can't even take it to a tribunal to clear my name because the only award, in a case of wrongful dismissal is payment of notice, they paid me notice so i have no claim,,,,, yep it's wrong, but it seems to be legal:mad:

and our governments whining about zimbawia?? ok not spelt right, but i'm to angry to care, sorry. take a look closer to home *^"#@9

I can't believe i didn't notice just how many "may", "normally", Might", "Could" are included in my terms and conditions, and this under a labour government!!!!!!! WTF???????????????? there isn't one single definate in the whole of my T&Cs, and this is legal???????????????WTF???????????????????????????????

not good,,,,,the meeting was adjorened due to health grouds, my health, i was a jibbering wreck, they made sure of that........................... it seems that i am wasting my time, they have today paid me my notice. so i can't take this any further, even though they have disregarded my very limited rights, they have disregarded stat min procedure, HSE regs, thier own company policy, employment laws, i cannot take this any further, they quoted the same sentence for every point i raised,,,, my advise to anyone who has been dismissed is, if they have not been employed for over 12 month is, however wrongly, is if you recieved notice, then save yourselves the hassle and heartache, and just roll over and play dead, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS, JUST GIVE UP, NO MATTER HOW WRONG THE DECISION IS, JUST MOVE ON, even though the company has shown they have a blatant disreguard for 1, laws. 2. HSE regs 3, their own co policy. 4, stat min procedure. 5, duty of care JUST GIVE UP, DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND THEIRS, SAVE YOURSLF LOADS 0F HEARTACHE/BREAK. GIVE IN, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS WHATSOEVER, THE BIG GUY WINS AGAIN, WHILE THE LITTLE GUY GET TRAMPLED UNDER THEIR HEEL

APPEAL TODAY against dismissal, 10am, any last minute tips

well my appeal is at 10am today, has anyone got any last minute tips?

The first thing i'm going to ask in the appeal is have you asked your occupational health advisor for details about my claimed illness’s, or asked for their opinion as to whether they would have a debilitating effect on my mental capacities re the 3/7/08 meeting???? IF YES, what was said? IF NO, WHY NOT? I would have thought, given my 2 previous letters, that would be the VERY FIRST thing any investigation or appeal would do! someone must have some thoughts or opinions???? feel free to voice them,PPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSEEEEEE

Hi i've received that "evidence" the co are relying on, the first sheet i look at is dated 30/10/2007, now this date is just after my 1st absense. so it's ok so far. the first line says i'm invited to a meeting 21/12/2007:confused:, this is just after my second absense. nor is the letter signed. i've never seen this letter before!!!!!! now this looks like they must really what rid of me, lol. does it look like a fabrication to anyone else????? thoughts PLEASE.

whats the point resigning? you lose a lot of your rights doing this, and is dismissal any worse than the reference you can expect,,,,,, if you've gor 10 years impeccable service then you've got a lot in your favour, unless you have been doing something really wrong? don't make it easy for them, have a read of the other post in this section, (before you rush into something you may regret) and you'll see what i mean

thanx for your replies, He refused because he disagrees with part of my first letter, he thinks it will be detrimental to me, but i only want him to tell the truth, after all i was in no state to have the meeting, so my memory is not really going to be all that accurate, i was also very aggitated, i had problems understanding everything that was asked of me, I'm not saying i would accept everything he says as gospel, after all it's what i felt and understood that counts, but it would have been helpful to know his version of events before i called him for a wittness. I've said all this to the other SS, he's going to sort it out hopefully. 2 days and counting untill the appeal, I sent in another letter, roughly the same as the one above, but with more examples of procedure they didn't follow, more of thier own internal precedure they missed, i tried to keep it objective and less emotional, although i have made it plain that 10 working days for the appeal is having a bad effect on my mental and physical health, their own codes clearly state that all appeal will be within 5 working days

I've found out that the SS who went to the meeting with has refused to give a written statement,,,, WTH??? he has said that i only said i was unfit 3 times, i know it was a lot more than this, but it's beside the point anyway, as once is enough. I've also found out that he has been gossiping about what was said in the meeting, wrong info,, what can I do about this.

Hi billy and thanx fro your reply, I've worked there for 11 months, they are getting a reputation for sacking people after 11 months. Don't worry I will be sticking to my guns, this is not going away. There is no doubt that what they've done is wrongful, but I can't see a way to make it unfair:(. I think it's likely they'll offer to reinstate me but with conditions, most likely that I drop my greivence, but I'm not doing that, if they try to blackmail me with that then their in more trouble.

Did This Ever Go Anywhere?

thanx for your advice, I've edited it, my SS is doing his best, he has got me some good arguements, but I will be ready for everything they can try, I'm taking it as a good sign that they've asked me to provide evidence of my illness's, but even if they chose to ignore this, I don't think they'll be stupid enough to let this descision to stand, they should by now know i'll not let this drop, and i'll use every trick I can to get this dodgey discision overturned, i'm going to copy all letters and send them head office on monday, just to let them know how serious i am about this, they are a big well known company, who've had a difficult time following some very bad "press" via watchdog, so i don't think they'll risk more.

the union is helping but to be honest they're useless. Well almost, i've just seen a peice of paper that states that no disiplinary action should progress more than 2 steps unless it is gross misconduct, so i've gone from 1 informal chat to dismissal in one go. game set and match i think;). ok they could still deny my appeal because i've not been there for 12 months, and have no real protection in law, so i could only go for breach of contract, which is useless, but I can't see them doing that.

Hi and thanx for your reply, my appeal is thurdays 17, i've had a letter from them so i decided agaist sending that one, I just wrote this, feel free to edit, add, screw up and throw away:D Dear Sir. Thank you for your letter dated 9 July 2008. In paragraph 4 of your letter, you make reference to my “undated and unsigned” letter. I must have made a mistake and gave my copy to Mr Y. I apologise for this error. You also in paragraph 4 request me to provide documented evidence to support my claim that I am suffering from vertigo and insomnia, I have already provided documented evidence to support these claim by way of the medical sick notes already in your possession, however in the interest of complying with your request I have obtained further evidence in support of my illnesses at a cost of £10.00. I hope that as I had provided evidence already, I will be re-imbursed with this money. In the same paragraph you also request more evidence of my skin cancer, the only evidence I have at this time is a letter confirming my admission to hospital on Monday 21 July 2008, could you please let me know as soon as possible if this is not enough evidence and I will contact the hospital to try to arrange more, I hope that this will be enough as I am reluctant to waste the hospitals time. With reference to paragraph 5, I completely accept that the original letter clearly stated the purpose of the meeting, that being "to discuss my your future employment with the company", it did not say that it was a formal dicilpinary hearing nor that I could be dismissed as a result. My contention is that Mr X misrepresented the meeting as something else when I requested the meeting is postponed on health grounds. I also accept that it is my responsibility to arrange representation, unfortunately I was not given sufficient notice to enable me to do so, minimum notice required, to the best of my knowledge, is 48 hours, I feel that given the nature of my illness even 48 hours would have been insufficient. In your letter dated 3 July 2008, it was at no point stated that I would receive 2 weeks pay in lieu of notice, is it any wonder that I have spent the last 7 days believing that I had been dismissed for gross misconduct. This has added considerably to the amount of stress and frustration I have suffered. In my statement of terms and conditions of employment, it clearly states that “in cases other than gross misconduct the Company is required to provide you with two weeks notice, in writing”. In your letter dated 9 July 2008, you say “ Please note that you have not been summarily dismissed and will be paid two weeks pay in lieu of notice as per your contract”. I feel that this has happened only as a reaction to my letter of the 7 July 2008. In support of this is the fact that I have not received this pay yet, 8 days after being dismissed. For a Company of the size of ***i, with the administrational resources available to you I find it odd that you would not be able to arrange the payment within that time. Further to my previous letter received by you on Monday 07 July 2008, I wish to add further grounds for my appeal against the decision to dismiss me on the grounds of Gross Misconduct or any other grounds. Having read your own “Timekeeping and Absence Control Procedure”, I have found the following; PROCEDURE AND SCOPE “The procedure is designed to help and encourage all hourly paid co-workers to achieve and maintain the company’s standards for timekeeping and attendance. The aim is to ensure consistent and fair treatment for all”. SICKNESS ABSENSE “It is recognised that co-worker will, from time to time, fall ill. In recognising that fact, the Company operates a generous sick pay scheme in support of co-workers genuinely ill”. LONG TERM ILLNESS “The Company considers absence in excess of three working weeks to be a long term illness”. “After 3 weeks of absence a co-worker will be requested to attend a review meeting in the presence of the Company Medical Advisor”. “Any person who shows a frequency or pattern of absence that gives cause for concern, for whatever reason, will be offered help, e.g. the referring of the co-worker to the Company Medical Advisor in order to identify an ongoing health problem etc”. To be perfectly honest my record of sickness has shown neither “a frequency nor pattern” but I would expect to be allowed, under your own “Company Policy”, to be given at the very least this “help”. I would also like to point out that I cannot be accused of “ abusing the company sick pay scheme” This is the first time I have received any sick pay whatsoever. (At this point I feel I should point out that in my “statement of terms and conditions of employment” it clearly states that my probationary period is 6 months,). I have served my “probationary period” therefore I should be treated no differently than any other permanent employee. The same document says that disciplinary procedure may be invoked if:- “A co-worker records 3 occasions of absence in a 26 week rolling period”. There seems to be a special rule for me, in your letters you state that I have been absent on 4 occasions in a 10 month period, when by your own policy it should say, I have been absent on 2 occasion in a 6 month period. As Mr X said in the meeting that my illness was “obviously genuine”, I fail to understand how the decision to dismiss me was reached. Mr X agreed that it was genuine, I only had 1 Period of sickness in a rolling 26 period, 2 if you include this “obviously genuine” period, my sickness was below the 4.5 threshold , then the disciplinary procedure should not have been invoked, surely. Also to clarify part of my last letter, The reason I believe the amount of time sick claimed I have had is wrong, the first day of this present period of sickness; I went home part way through a shift. I have a problem with one more claimed sick day, and I feel very strongly that this is a deliberate attempt to twist the facts to make my record seem worse than it really is. The day in question is Friday the 27th of June, how could this have been counted when we are on a four day week, and don’t work Fridays? I have remembered something else about the “meeting” I attended on the 3rd July. When it became apparent that the meeting was not as Mr X stated “concerning my health”, and I said that I would not answer any more questions as I felt I was not answering the questions as I would normally have, because of my ill health and lack of sleep for the past 5 or 6 weeks, Mr X said, “The answers I gave would have nothing to do with any decision he made on my future with the Company”. Yet in the letter dismissing me it says that, “ following the meeting held on Thursday 3rd july at 9.00am, at which you were accompanied by Mr Z, your trade union representative. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss your future employment with the company”. It is quite obvious that something is wrong with one of these statements. Had the decision to dismiss me already been made before I had been given the chance to defend myself? Or was that statement an attempt to mislead me into thinking the meeting was not about my future employment? While I can understand that I will not be allowed to work while this matter is being investigated, I fail to understand why, (considering the facts), this decision has been allowed to stand. The decision to dismiss me is based on incorrect and misleading information, the letter inviting me to the meeting made no mention of disciplinary action, what the consequences of the meeting could be, the process of this action has failed to follow the rules on disciplinary procedure, ignored Company policy, ignored relevant employment laws, ignored relevant HSE regulations, denied me my rights to fair representation, denied me my rights to a hearing at a time when I was fit and able to defend myself, I was forced, while unfit, into a disciplinary meeting which was falsely represented as “ a meeting concerning my health”, and I have been bullied and intimidated into answering questions I did not understand, This whole business is very distressing for both myself and my partner, and is adding to the already huge amount of stress I have at the moment, due to the possible skin cancer. We have a mortgage and bills to pay. While I am very disappointed with the treatment I have received, I still feel I have a lot to offer the company, and would be very happy if I am reinstated. I also hope that my complaint against Mr X is being treated in accordance with company policy, My absence due to unavoidable illness has been treated as very harshly, and I have been dismissed, then I trust that Mr X is being judged using the same standards, we are after all co-workers, with equal rights, and therefore we should be treated in the exact same way. Yours Faithfully

Heres a letter i'm thinking of sending in, any thoughts? Dear Sir. Thank you for your letter dated 9 July 2008. In paragraph 4 of your letter, you make reference to my “undated and unsigned” letter. I must have made a mistake and gave my copy to Mr Y. I apologise for this error. You also in paragraph 4 request me to provide documented evidence to support my claim that I am suffering from vertigo and insomnia, I have already provided documented evidence to support these claim by way of the medical sick notes already in your possession, however in the interest of complying with your request I have obtained further evidence in support of my illnesses at a cost of £10.00. I hope that as I had provided evidence already, I will be re-imbursed with this money. In the same paragraph you also request more evidence of my skin cancer, the only evidence I have at this time is a letter confirming my admission to hospital on Monday 21 July 2008, could you please let me know as soon as possible if this is not enough evidence and I will contact the hospital to try to arrange more, I hope that this will be enough as I am reluctant to waste the hospitals time. With reference to paragraph 5, I completely accept that the original letter clearly stated the purpose of the meeting, my contention is that Mr X misrepresented the meeting as something else when I requested the meeting is postponed on health grounds. I also accept that it is my responsibility to arrange representation, unfortunately I was not given sufficient notice to enable me to do so, minimum notice required, to the best of my knowledge, is 48 hours, I feel that given the nature of my illness even 48 hours would have been insufficient. In your letter dated 3 July 2008, it was at no point stated that I would receive 2 weeks pay in lieu of notice, is it any wonder that I have spent the last 7 days believing that I had been dismissed for gross misconduct. This has added considerably to the amount of stress and frustration I have suffered. In my statement of terms and conditions of employment, it clearly states that “in cases other than gross misconduct the Company is required to provide you with two weeks notice, in writing”. In your letter dated 9 July 2008, you say “ Please note that you have not been summarily dismissed and will be paid two weeks pay in lieu of notice as per your contract”. I feel that this has happened only as a reaction to my letter of the 7 July 2008. In support of this is the fact that I have not received this pay yet, 8 days after being dismissed. For a Company of the size of ***i, with the administrational resources available to you I find it odd that you would not be able to arrange the payment within that time. Further to my previous letter received by you on Monday 07 July 2008, I wish to add further grounds for my appeal against the decision to dismiss me on the grounds of Gross Misconduct or any other grounds. Having read your own “Timekeeping and Absence Control Procedure”, I have found the following; PROCEDURE AND SCOPE “The procedure is designed to help and encourage all hourly paid co-workers to achieve and maintain the company’s standards for timekeeping and attendance. The aim is to ensure consistent and fair treatment for all”. SICKNESS ABSENSE “It is recognised that co-worker will, from time to time, fall ill. In recognising that fact, the Company operates a generous sick pay scheme in support of co-workers genuinely ill”. LONG TERM ILLNESS “The Company considers absence in excess of three working weeks to be a long term illness”. “After 3 weeks of absence a co-worker will be requested to attend a review meeting in the presence of the Company Medical Advisor”. “Any person who shows a frequency or pattern of absence that gives cause for concern, for whatever reason, will be offered help, e.g. the referring of the co-worker to the Company Medical Advisor in order to identify an ongoing health problem etc”. To be perfectly honest my record of sickness has shown neither “a frequency nor pattern” but I would expect to be allowed, under your own “Company Policy”, to be given at the very least this “help”. I would also like to point out that I cannot be accused of “ abusing the company sick pay scheme” This is the first time I have received any sick pay whatsoever. (At this point I feel I should point out that in my “statement of terms and conditions of employment” it clearly states that my probationary period is 6 months,). I have served my “probationary period” therefore I should be treated no differently than any other permanent employee. The same document says that disciplinary procedure may be invoked if:- “A co-worker records 3 occasions of absence in a 26 week rolling period”. There seems to be a special rule for me, in your letters you state that I have been absent on 4 occasions in a 10 month period, when by your own policy it should say, I have been absent on 2 occasion in a 6 month period. As Mr X said in the meeting that my illness was “obviously genuine”, I fail to understand how the decision to dismiss me was reached. Mr X agreed that it was genuine, I only had 1 Period of sickness in a rolling 26 period, 2 if you include this “obviously genuine” period, my sickness was below the 4.5 threshold , then the disciplinary procedure should not have been invoked, surely. Also to clarify part of my last letter, The reason I believe the amount of time sick claimed I have had is wrong, is that the third period of sick was when I was sent home unfit for work, even if this is counted as sickness it is only half a day not a full day as claimed. Another “day” that has been counted against me was the first day of this present period of sickness; I dispute this for the same reasons as above. I have a problem with one more claimed sick day, and I feel very strongly that this is a deliberate attempt to twist the facts to make my record seem worse than it really is. The day in question is Friday the 27th of June, how could this have been counted when we are on a four day week, and don’t work Fridays? I have remembered something else about the “meeting” I attended on the 3rd July. When it became apparent that the meeting was not as Mr X stated “concerning my health”, and I said that I would not answer any more questions as I felt I was not answering the questions as I would normally have, because of my ill health and lack of sleep for the past 5 or 6 weeks, Mr X said, “The answers I gave would have nothing to do with any decision he made on my future with the Company”. Yet in the letter dismissing me it says that, “ following the meeting held on Thursday 3rd july at 9.00am, at which you were accompanied by Mr Z, your trade union representative. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss your future employment with the company”. It is quite obvious that something is wrong with one of these statements. Had the decision to dismiss me already been made before I had been given the chance to defend myself? Or was that statement an attempt to mislead me into thinking the meeting was not about my future employment? While I can understand that I will not be allowed to work while this matter is being investigated, I fail to understand why this, (considering the facts), decision has been allowed to stand. The decision to dismiss me is based on incorrect and misleading information, the letter inviting me to the meeting made no mention of disciplinary action, what the consequences of the meeting could be, the process of this action has failed to follow the rules on disciplinary procedure, ignored Company policy, ignored relevant employment laws, ignored relevant HSE regulations, denied me my rights to fair representation, denied me my rights to a hearing at a time when I was fit and able to defend myself, I was forced, while unfit, into a disciplinary meeting which was falsely represented as “ a meeting concerning my health”, and I have been bullied and intimidated into answering questions I did not understand, This whole business is very distressing for both myself and my partner, and is adding to the already huge amount of stress I have at the moment, due to the possible skin cancer. We have a mortgage and bills to pay, We are also supposed to be going to Australia on the 30th of September, the remainder of the flight has to be paid for by the 15th of this month, I will have to cancel this “holiday of a lifetime” which I have been planning for 12 months, and so will my partner, I booked these holidays off work months ago. While I am very disappointed with the treatment I have received, I still feel I have a lot to offer the company, and would be very happy if I am reinstated. I also hope that my complaint against Mr X is being treated in accordance with company policy, My absence due to unavoidable illness has been treated as very harshly, and I have been dismissed, then I trust that Mr X is being judged using the same standards, we are after all co-workers, with equal rights, and therefore we should be treated in the exact same way. Yours Faithfully

Ok I already know that this is in the wrong forum and I expect it will be moved soon, I've done this because I've been posting in the employment section, but recieved no help, ok i've recieved some advise regarding my health, but it's not really what I need right now. Time to get to the point and I'll try to keep it short,,,,, worked for company for just short of 11 months. been sick 4 times, 5.5 days beofre this time. only half a day in last 6 months. been off this time since 16/06, diagnosed with insomnia, vertigo, and possible skin cancer. asked to go in for " meeting to discuss my continued employment" 03/07. 03/07 I go to " meeting" request shop steward, the 1 I request is on lates, told to have another shop steward, I say no because he has no experience, only been SS for 2 months, told I've no choise. SS comes in, I request the meeting be postponed due to vertigo which makes me disorientated, effects my concentration and ability to think straight, also on the grounds that I have insomnia, make thinking straight impossible, understanding impossible, refused postponement because " this meeting is to find out how I am, when i'll be back to work, if I could do anyother jobs at work, until i'm fit again. meeting goes ahead, soon becomes apparent that this IS to discuss my future,, I say that I'm in no state to be having this discussion at this time because I don't understand what is going on. I'm told " don't worry as what I answer will have no effect on my future with the company" ( already decided it seems) still not happpy, repeat this several times. SS finally speaks " this diciplinary process is for people who are taking the pi**" manager agrees and says that my illness is obviously genuine. 04/07 recieve letter saying that my contract has been terminated effective from 03/07. my main question is,,,,,, is this the same as dimissal, whats the diffrence if any? if not do they still have to follow company disiplinary procedures? any help on any of this would be helpful, my appeal is 17/07. thanx link here ,,,,Disciplinary while under a doctor's note

hi, did this go anywhere? is it still proceding?

Also does someone know, WHEN/if I win this appeal on the grounds that procedure was not followed, can they then restart the process and sack me again??