Well, it will a limited half hour conversation tomorrow. But that will be it, mainly it's to definitely get clear in my head that I am entitled to a refund before sending the letter. Will feed back what I can though. Modified slightly below:- Dear Sir/Madam, On xx/xx/xx date I entered into a contract with you for windows – reference the signed quotation number xxxxxx The requirements were clearly laid out and specified in the signed quote attached to my e-mail of date xx/xx/xx. Despite that you eventually supplied items which did not tally with the agreed specification. I have, and am asserting now, the right to reject the goods under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. You appear to be saying that because the goods supplied were "made-to-measure" that you are not obliged to accept my rejection and to refund me the price; as such you are refusing to comply with your statutory obligations. I have already tried to point out you that these goods were supplied not as agreed so in that respect they are defective. In any event I should also point out you that whatever the circumstances, even if you supply goods which are made to the agreed specification, if they are defective then I would be entitled to reject them. You are continuing to refuse to reimburse me and so I'm writing to inform you that if you do not make arrangements to collect the defective items and to refund me in full within 14 days then I shall issue proceedings against you in the County Court for full reimbursement, plus any expenses incurred as a result of your breach, plus interest plus my costs. Yours faithfully, Tom Legerton

Looks good, though I'd possibly have to change it to be asserting my right as part of the letter. I have sent them a previous e-mail with the words 'I do not accept this item, which is effectively not as described and as such am entitled to a refund under the consumer rights act 2015.' But I didn't use the words "right to reject", I was going to do it after taking the legal advice tomorrow and put it in the letter itself...the 30 days runs out on 5th so still time but not much. I have the name of their CEO, Martin Randall, and his address and plan to send copies both to his listed address and the Letchworth address. I think I'll start Dear Sir and just address the envelope FAO Martin Randall CEO Crystal Direct. Thanks

Hi, I've shortened the rest of it considerably. Not sure what to do with this paragraph though?! Repeated requests for a refund on the glazing only have been met with refusal citing your terms and conditions and stating you will only reorder the glass. I would point out that this variation of specification was not by prior agreement, and hence I am not bound to pay for it under your own terms and conditions (2.3 No variation to the Contract shall be binding unless agreed in writing by authorised representatives of the parties). Additionally as the item has not been made to my specifications clause 3.5 is negated (3.5 Cancellation - All Crystal products are ‘made to measure’ This means that where goods have been manufactured ‘made to measure’ due a customer’s specifications, they will become non-returnable and non-refundable.’ Furthermore, term 3.5 is not even included in the terms and conditions I received in the order acknowledgement.

Interesting point on the mediation, I thought I had to make it clear I was prepared to do that. If they chose to go directly court without offering it, presumably that reflects badly on them. I'm not concerned about the frames falling apart, it's the same frames I had back in 2012 from a different company and they were still fine when I sold my flat last year. Glaziers I'm sure I can find somewhere else (and already have - a different glass supplier to that which Crystal uses). But you make a good point, I may well reject the lot! It's this company http://crystal-direct.co.uk/.

Think you've got the wrong Crystal there Slick132...it's Crystal Clear Group Ltd. There's a lot of companies with Crystal in the name! I agree could take out the struck through part about evidence, although they already have it all already, but I think I need to leave the part about mediation/ADR in, it's important to show I'm open to these, that and the next line came from a template letter before action. Have asked for that post to be removed via the report button, just in case, the rest of the thread can stay! The frames are fine, no reason not to keep them, though I could reorder frames from somewhere else it'd be easier to keep these ones as I then already have the measurements for the glass (which I've double checked). I will be asking that question tomorrow though. I have found another supplier I'd be happy to use at around the same price. Glass at the mo is stored mostly upstairs, it's a bit inconvenient as it takes up a lot of space, but no losses as such.

...Just found this https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06034544 I can write to their CEO at their registered office. Not sure if I need to send the letter to both, but figure why not.

No, though I did get a call back just this morning (from someone I'd not spoken to before at Crystal) and I now have the name of their CEO and confirmed I can write to him at the address I ordered from. Good idea though. Provisional letter below (names replaced), minor adjustments may be made following the legal advice:-

Hmm, good to know. I did e-mail CAB as I mentioned, will see what they have to say. I'll be putting the advice from an actual trained solicitor above theirs though. I drafted a letter this evening, and was having a look at their T&C's. One of these says 'No variation to the Contract shall be binding unless agreed in writing by authorised representatives of the parties.' I'd say varying the spec is varying the contract, therefore I shouldn't be bound to pay for the item concerned. Also, on their website they have the term 3.5 Cancellation - All Crystal products are ‘made to measure’ This means that where goods have been manufactured ‘made to measure’ due a customer’s specifications, they will become non-returnable and non-refundable. Due to the timescale involved in producing ‘bespoke’ items, Crystal will provide a 24 hour cooling off period from the time that the order is placed. After this time has elapsed, production will begin and the right to cancel will be removed. This will not affect your statutory rights with regards to damaged goods. But on my *actual invoice*, term 3.5 is mysteriously missing! I would think the T&C's on my actual invoice take precedence, although the not manufacturing to spec would negate 3.5 anyway?!

Hi, I'm a member of Unison, so I don't think so? As a member I can claim half an hours free legal advice, which should be enough to clarify my position. How am I going to know if they supply the correct glass. I'm completely reliant on the label, and the glazier they've used has either a) ignored the spec they received or b) processed an order without making sure it's been signed off first by the customer. Neither is good.

Good point. I was going to wait till Thursday as I'm getting some free legal advice then. I'm only 90% sure I'm right. I have till 5th Dec in theory...I was thinking wait and get the legal advice, then send a letter before action addressed to "Dear CEO" or similar immediately once I'm 100% confident I do have the right to reject and send it back. I have already requested a refund several times. The company are now it would seem just not responding to my phone calls/e-mails (I sent several over the weekend, maybe I'll get a response tomorrow but not holding my breath). I could send the letter now. Would you reject the whole order? I'd be happy to keep the frames, but if it's necessary to send them back too in order to get my money back I'll happily do it - I guess they could be considered a commercial unit. I don't think they would but what if they decided to remake the glass without my permission/agreement?! cheers, Tom

Debit card. As I said, this is the second time this has happened to me. Plus I've not had an explanation of exactly how this happened, despite asking. I know their reassurance when I asked for confirmation the glass would be to my specification was a load of rubbish, so why should I be forced to trust them again? I should have the right to take my business elsewhere and obtain a refund if they get it wrong, my problem is I'm not sure yet whether I do.

Hi. Yes I have confirmation. I only signed their quote after merging a PDF of the glass spec I wanted into their quote and labelling it as the appendix, adding to the additional notes saying all glass as per the spec in the appendix on page 1 and signing it on page 1. Their quote says on that page in bold 'only sign off when you are sure all is correct'. I also have written confirmation from their head of customer services that 'they ordered the wrong glass' and written confirmation from the glazier they used with PDF details (in a lot of detail) of the two different specs, the one I got and the one I wanted. Main point was the U value was higher than I ordered because they used the wrong low E glass. I've complained many times mostly by e-mail, I tend to do this to maintain an audit trail. I haven't actually managed to speak to their head of customer services yet. I realized yesterday I could get limited free legal advice as I'm a member of Unison, so I called them up and I should get a response tomorrow hopefully. I find it ridiculous that if they screw up, they think I'm obliged to let them keep trying? I want to take my business/money elsewhere. I have also e-mail Citizen's advice, and asked them to complain to trading standards. Will see where I get. I've repeatedly asked for a refund, I understand it's 30 days on right to reject. My lack of clarity is on whether if it's a bespoke item I am allowed to reject if they screw it up and claim a refund, or whether they have the right to try again. You could argue (and I have) because they screwed up the spec, it wasn't made to my specifications, it was made to theirs. I suppose they could argue it's still a bespoke item because it's based on my overall window sizes (I wasn't using off shelf sizes). Apart from anything else, I don't see that it should make much difference to them - they lose money on the glass either way (ca. £1200). I did present an option to take the units at significantly reduced price which would have worked out cheaper for them, but they didn't take it, they just want to remake the glass.

...you're right, it's Crystal Clear Ltd in Letchworth (though they have multiple locations all over).

Hi, thanks! 1) I don't know if that's allowed, and as I may end up taking them to small claims will politely to decline to name for the time being. After it's all dealt with, sure. Or you can PM me and I could tell you (if that's possible on here, I've just joined so still figuring it out). 2) Just over £1800, however the glass cost, the part I'm asking for a refund on, is ~£1190. The frames are fine. 3) 40mm triple glazed, warm edge spacer, argon, Planiclear glass throughout, Planitherm One T inner two panes to hit U value of 0.6. None of it's installed, it was supply only, I plan to install myself once I have the right glazing. Spec supplied was Planitherm Total+ instead of Planitherm One T. U value ends up 0.7. 4) A couple of days after, when I checked the label and couldn't find mention of the glass I was expecting. It was something else called Thermaglass. I made further enquiries with the supplier, who admitted they'd got the wrong glass. 5) It's not done yet, it's all still sitting around unused till it's dealt with! Incidentally, I realised earlier this evening that as I'm a member of Unison, I'm allowed 30 minutes free legal advice. So I'll called them and left details, and they're going to e-mail me by the end of Monday. I have e-mailed Citizen's Advice too and asked them to complain to trading standards provided I'm right and I am entitled to a (partial in this case) refund. Will feed back when I have more info so people can benefit! cheers

Hi. I ordered windows which I received 5th of this month, they were ordered with a bespoke glass specification. The company (or the glazier they used, they're cagey about exactly what happened) messed up the glass order I got a different, lower thermal performance specification. I would like to keep the frames and reorder the glass myself, and have asked for my money back on the cost of the glass. They are refusing to do this citing their terms and conditions, saying they will only reorder the glass to my original specification. I don't want to do this as 1) this is the second time this has happened to me - I ordered windows from a different company 8 years ago and they sent glazing with aluminium spacers instead of warm edge 2) I don't trust them, as I specifically asked them to confirm the spec would be as per my request some time before the order was received and was told it would be exactly as requested on my signed quote. There's no question they've got the order wrong, I have written admission as such from the head of customer services and written confirmation from the glazier they used of the difference in what I asked for and what I got (together with detailed pdf's of the glazing spec). The problem is the stubborn refusal to refund. Their T&C's say:- 3.5 Cancellation - All Crystal products are ‘made to measure’ This means that where goods have been manufactured ‘made to measure’ due a customer’s specifications, they will become non-returnable and non-refundable. Due to the timescale involved in producing ‘bespoke’ items, Crystal will provide a 24 hour cooling off period from the time that the order is placed. After this time has elapsed, production will begin and the right to cancel will be removed. This will not affect your statutory rights with regards to damaged goods. My argument is they haven't been 'made to measure' due to a customer's specifications, because they got the spec wrong and made them to some other spec of their own, as soon as they got it wrong they aren't bespoke anymore. I'd also argue the glazing effectively isn't as described/the goods don't match the contract and I'm therefore entitled to a refund as I'm still within 30 days. Am I entitled to a refund in law?! Thanks in advance