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  1. Thanks dx100uk - I'm not sure what the council will do next so will wait and see and update later if there are any developments. Thanks to all on the site for the advice. This has been hanging over my head for so long - wish I'd done it sooner.
  2. Hi Honeybee Yes that's the one - many thanks. I did try and update it late last night but it said I had to contact site owners so I gave up and went to bed! In the end after no contact/updates from the solicitors the sale went through very quickly so I presume that didn't give the council sufficient time to swing into action. Thanks
  3. I tried to post an update on an earlier thread without success. Long story short. The house sale has taken place [title deeds had a charge against property] Restriction said 'No disposition of the registered estate is to be completed by registration without a certificate signed by the applicant or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of council]. Exchange and completion within a couple of days. I've not heard anything from either solicitors involved on this point nor the council so not sure of the purpose / effectiveness of the charge as it doesn't seem to have held up the sale. Perhaps I'll get a bill next month?? Has anyone had a similar experience?
  4. Thanks DX - I have now instructed a solicitor. I had to disclose the non-standard restriction as all the quotes I got for were based on 'straightforward' transactions and did ask whether there were any restrictions etc. on the property. The CS indicated they were familiar and it would be dealt with as standard process through the conveyancing process but then said "and the charge can be repaid at the same time as...." I pointed out the wording on the restriction [previously shared with the firm] and the advice received from LR and elsewhere concluding with my expectation that the council could be informed after the sale. The response was that it would be dealt with as part of the conveyancing process. that's where we are. I will update you at conclusion of this business and hopefully there will be a positive outcome from which others can share/benefit. Thanks
  5. dx I'm really not trying to be difficult or find ways to 'not believe' what I've been told. I'm just trying to clarify things. I took the day off work today to speak to various conveyancing solicitors [and Land Registry] to try and get a straight answer. If a certificate means a letter, I don't know why it isn't written so! A certificate implies something different to me. In summary then, this non-standard restriction [similar to a Restriction K] has no teeth! To address this - the buyer's conveyancer sends a letter to the council to say that they are the new owners. They then write to the LR to inform that they've notified the council. The LR then removes the restriction? I sent a summary along these lines [thanks to you guys] to some CS asking for quotes and the responses were not clear with some saying they would charge an extra £amount to discharge the charge. When I said I didn't want to pay the charge, I wanted them to deal with the conveyancing whilst aware of the restriction - they dropped off the radar. So if 'my' conveyancing solicitor [when I appoint one] isn't familiar with this- then there's less chance that the buyer's conveyancer will be - which could lead to panic and withdrawal of the offer. I've tried googling to find CS with experience of restrictions but that hasn't delivered. LR has provided some assistance but not a definitive response so I could share with a CS. Thank you
  6. So mine is not a charge, there was no interim or final court order. LR has said it's a NON-STANDARD restriction NOT a restriction K. I've re-read the practice guide 19: notices, restrictions. The para below looked interesting. My wording states....No disposition of the registered estate is to be completed by registration without a certificate signed by the applicant or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to the ...[council]. Back to square one - what sort of certificate? 3.1 The nature and effect of restrictions 3.1.1 The general effect of restrictions Restrictions prohibit the making of an entry in respect of a disposition or a disposition of a specified kind. The prohibition may be indefinite or for a specified period and it may be absolute or conditional on something happening (for example, on getting the consent of a third-party). The term ‘disposition’ is not defined in the Land Registration Act 2002. Most restrictions refer to dispositions by the proprietor of the registered estate or of a registered charge, implying some action by that proprietor to make the disposition. A disposition may also occur by operation of law, and a restriction that refers merely to “no disposition” would also catch such a disposition. Please note, however, that a discharge of a registered charge is not a disposition and cannot be prevented by a restriction. A restriction makes it apparent from the register that either the powers of the relevant proprietor are limited, or that a prior condition must be met before a disposition can be registered. The purpose of restrictions is to regulate registration, not regulate dispositions. So, where a restriction entered in the register requires consent or has an option requiring consent, the consent given in relation to the restriction should expressly consent to the registration of the disposition, not consent to the disposition. This requirement does not apply to a restriction that requires a certificate. In that case, all that is needed is that the certificate complies with the requirements of the restriction. Once entered, a restriction will remain in the register until it is cancelled or withdrawn. Restrictions are not automatically cancelled following a disposition, although we may cancel any restriction that has clearly become superfluous.
  7. Thanks Dx - I will update you when I have more news. I've spent the afternoon speaking to various solicitors [or their administrators] trying to establish what's what - there seems to be a lot of confusion over this. If there's 'stuff all' the council can do - I wonder why they bothered to register the restriction in the first place?
  8. dx100uk Yes that's the wording. I'm not clear who the applicant is in this situation! LR say that the applicant is the buyer or their conveyancer. So in that case as others have said on here - the buyer/conveyancer need only write to the council after the sale. OR Does 'applicant' in this case refer to the council who made the application for the restriction? If the former this is dependent on my solicitor and the buyer's solicitor being aware of this type of restriction and particularly the purchaser is unfazed by a 'restriction' on the property. LR confirmed earlier that as my father was a joint proprietor of the property, the charge could not be registered or noted, instead it was protected by registration of a [non-standard] restriction. If the latter then the council won't do that until I've paid the bill [whatever that is now]
  9. Update: I've managed to get a dialogue going with the LR and they advise that it is for the applicant [ my buyer] or their conveyancer to notify the council. I'm trying to establish the timing for this - i.e. whether the buyer/their conveyancer has to do this before the sale or whether it can be done after the sale. The LR has also suggested that they send in copies of my father's death certificate to demonstrate I'm the sole proprietor - I'm not comfortable with that so I think I'd rather register via form DJP [Death of Joint Proprietor] with the LR myself and again I have asked what the implication is of my doing that [making me the sole proprietor] in relation to the restriction. Why is this all so complicated??? I'm hoping for clarity so that I can appoint a CS who understands the position so the situation doesn't escalate.
  10. Ok so the charging order or restriction remains in force, no time limit. I'm back now to finding a CS who understands that the restriction merely requires them to notify the council AFTER the house has been sold [as per post no. 17] and can explain that to the buyer's solicitor so the buyers are reassured and proceed with the sale. I can then pursue the case with the council when they receive notification of the sale as no doubt that will fire up the case again after being dormant for so long. If anyone can recommend a CS they've used before in similar circumstances or one they know has experience of this I'd be grateful. Thanks
  11. I was obviously clutching at straws on that one! I was putting the repeal together with the information below and considering that as I hadn't heard from the council for over 3 years that this might mean the charge / restriction was not now being pursued, particularly as the SAR disclosure did not show any entry for me from the Finance Dept. I fear I'm back to square one now. After 1 April 2015 a Local Authority will only be able to recover unpaid care home fees by securing a judgment debt either in the County Court or the High Court (s69(1) of the Act).and The Act increases the time limit for the recovery of a debt comprising of unpaid care home fees from three years to six years from the date the sum becomes due
  12. BazzaS Ah - now that complicates things - just when I thought I'd got my head round it! I did think b] might be a source of worry for the purchaser. They have just instructed their solicitor yesterday but I haven't found one yet, preliminary enquiries didn't result in any clarity on the questions I posed. a] where do I find a CS who understands this and can share their knowledge with the buyer's CS? I've no idea what the outstanding balance is as the council has not been in touch. I appealed many years ago and it wasn't resolved. I did do a SAR with the council and nothing came back from the Finance dept. so I was hoping my appeal had been accepted and the debt 'wiped' but they hadn't bothered to contact me. There were lots of changes up to the new Care Act 2014 which came into force on 01.04.15 Repeal: I was relying on the meaning below? Hence again I thought that's why the council hadn't pursued the debt and was just leaving the CO [or restriction] on the register to keep me on my toes! If a government repeals a law, it causes that law no longer to have any legal force. Thanks
  13. dx100uk Thank you! I am indeed chasing my tail. I am Spotty Dog after all! I just need to find a conveyancing solicitor who understands the restriction. The CS then writes to the council upon/after? the sale. The new owners [or their CS] registers their ownership on LR and the 'restriction' drops off? When I approached a few CS they all did the builder thing of pursing their lips and whistling "that'll cost you....it's very complicated..." sort of thing. BTW the LR however has stated to me that it is not a Restriction K - if that matters? Thank you so much, I will go down this route and provide an update when it's all done and dusted so others can benefit from the exchange and will make a donation to the site as I'm very grateful for the advice.
  14. Thank you very much Dx100uk. I’ve read post 22 and the other articles with great interest but I have a query regarding the ‘completed by registration’ angle. The LR confirmed that I have a non-standard restriction as entered in the register. They said it's not a standard Form K restriction but a statutory charge, however, as the person concerned (my late father) was a joint proprietor of the property, the charge could not be registered or noted. Instead it was protected by registration of a restriction. It’s not a CO so didn’t go through the Court so no interim or final charging orders involved. I'm reading this that I don’t have a Charging Order instead a unilateral notice was issued resulting in the placing of a restriction on the property? With reference to the advice in post 22 extract below - as I didn't agree to this I'm presuming that I have a unilateral notice. Notices [Unilateral or Agreed] If a property which is the subject of a notice is sold the purchaser should insist that the form necessary to remove to, signed by the beneficiary, is supplied on completion. Obviously the beneficiary will only sign this if the debt is satisfied. It is often possible however to have a notice removed following a sale without the consent of the beneficiary depending on the circumstances. Q. I have a restriction - but do I also have a notice? If I have a notice then the above is worrying as obviously the council is not going to sign the form to have the restriction removed. Restrictions A restriction prevents the property from being sold without the consent of the beneficiary or without some evidence that a specified action has been performed. In terms of securing a debt the restriction would require the consent of the creditor to the sale and that consent would not be granted unless the debt was repaid. Q. the wording on the restriction above contradicts the 'effect of the restriction' below does it not? Unless the restriction is as a result of a Court Order or bankruptcy proceedings then the consent of the owner is needed in order to register it. A restriction alone does not prove that the interest being claimed is valid and will not provide the details of it however it will protect the priority of the interest if it is valid. The effect of the restriction The debtor and his joint owner’s freedom to sell the property is not affected by such a restriction. They could sell the property as if there was no charging order against the debtor. All that was required was that the new buyers or their solicitor write to the creditor informing them that they now owned the property and then confirm to the Land Registry that they had given that notice. Then the buyers could register the property with no further complications. The creditor, who is sitting back, waiting to get paid, instead just receives a letter confirming that a sale has already taken place, typically a week or two after the sale so there is little they can do to get the debt paid. In theory the creditor could apply for a freezing order against the debtor to try and obtain the cash from the sale proceeds. However, most creditors will never make such an application: The cost of applying for such a freezing order would run into thousands of pounds. The debtor might have spent the cash from the sale of the property before the freezing order was obtained so there is little, if anything, for the freezing order to bite on. Q. Does this apply to my case given that the restriction in my case states ‘No disposition of the registered estate is to be completed by registration without a certificate signed by the applicant [presume that’s the council?] or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name – council] being the person with the benefit of a Charge under S22 of the HASSA 1983. The wording suggests to me that the sale can’t be completed without first notifying the council? Whereas the text above suggests the new buyers/conveyancing solicitor need only write to the council to advise they are the new owners and then write to the LR that they've told the council and then the 'charge/restriction/entry' will be removed? If this is the case - then that would be the solution for me! Just a little concerned though that the wording in Panel 10 also includes the word ‘Charge’ whereas the LR has already confirmed it is a restriction. Apologies for the long post
  15. dx100uk You are absolutely correct. That's exactly what the wording is! And if that's the case then - happy days for me! However, I thought that: 1. This wording meant the conveyancing solicitor had to tell the council that the house was about to be sold so they were aware! But you are saying that the council only needs to be informed AFTER the house has been sold? Can I tell the council that? [I think I've seen something on the internet that says I can, rather than the CS] Or do I need the conveyancing solicitor to contact the council? 2. That this wording wasn't a restriction K [as I'd looked at Schedule 4 of the Standard Forms of Restriction] and tried to match my wording to those listed - and thought restriction K was the closest. 3. That this was a non-standard restriction [and that's what the Land Registry told me too and that the restriction was not a Restriction K!!! [see extract below] Please remember that when applying for a restriction not in standard form: it must always contain the words ‘is to be completed by registration’ rather than ‘is to be registered’. This will serve to make the effect of the restriction clear. The term ‘registered’, where used in any of the standard form restrictions, means the completion of a registrable disposition by complying with the relevant registration requirements prescribed in Schedule 2 to the Land Registration Act 2002 (rule 91(3) of the Land Registration Rules 2003), but this statutory definition only applies to standard form restrictions. Please note that we will not accept restrictions not in standard form for registration that contain the words ‘is to be registered’ So I'm confused now. IF it is a restriction K - then the conveyancing solicitor doesn't have to do anything and I can let the council know. It seems it is dependent on the wording 'completed by registration' and 'is to be registered'??? Below is copied from Martin's MSE. This relies again on the 'is to be registered' whereas my wording is ' completed by registration' which you say is restriction K and LR says is not. I need to go to sleep now! Thanks dx. Extract from MSE below. If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction. The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor. However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to deceive you believing you are stuck with a CO. However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them Quote: Restriction The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :- No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of /I]an interim[I/I]a final[I charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
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