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Everything posted by dabbied

  1. I can refute the points which are related to (A): Anything they sent in the letter, (B): Their claims that I did not communicate further after their letter. Anything related to the phonecalls, I cannot prove in terms of content, only dates and times - could you tell me whether those are admissable as evidence? As far as I know, the hearing fee is £80, which I'm ok with paying. It works out better to me to try and win the £900 and risk £80 + £60 for the case and hearing fees than to discontinue the case. In terms of risk factors: Looking at their defence (as you mentioned earlier), either they're consulting legal advice or its not their first rodeo. In case I lose the case during hearing, am I liable for any of their legal costs associated with their defence? I will have a look for templates. The earliest I can send the SAR is on Monday. That gives them a month to disclose my data they hold (also see my point about the DQ below), but I'm wondering what is the use of SAR at this point? Will it be useful once I submit the evidence to court or is it something to do with the letters? On the same note, the fabricated letter situation worries me a bit. Its probably not uncommon but makes me think what else can they pull off to not have to pay. Clearly they're operating with malicious intent. If I wanted to present this in court, how would I formulate this to the judge? Put it plain old: "they're fabricating evidence"? Do I send something beforehand? I will send another PDF with the full table (could you kindly update your post with the table once I attach it, I don't think I'd be able to edit your post). The chronology will be of what I have in my notes and documentation. Their defence does not exactly state "what happened when" from their POV and seems to be rather all over the place in that regard. Deadline for submitting the DQ is the 6th of July. In terms of the SAR, if I have to send off the DQ by the above date, I'm guessing the SAR might not be useful, since they have a month (and will likely take a month). The hearing fee is £80 as mentioned above. I think I'd be able to argue my points clearly. The things that confuse me is what happens when after I send off the DQ, and what sort of documents I need to send to whom. Your advice is great! Thank you. (I'll work on the table today and tomorrow and post it here as a PDF)
  2. Hello again, I have realised something interesting... They are fabricating evidence! The letter they have sent on the 11 of March 2020 (the one I have actually received) - directs me to get a quote and pass it onto the warranty company or to them so they can decide. They letter they have attached as an Appendix to the defence says they want the car returned for inspection. How bad is this and how do I prove this to the court? Best I will send the scans of both letters later today
  3. I have just received the Directions Questionnaire for the Small Claims Track and a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track. Could you kindly have a look at my previous message and comment on some of my questions? Generally I'm really confused as to what happens now and what kind of things I need to send where. I believe I need to fill in the Directions Questionnaire and send it both to court and Forton Motors? Also, whether based on the evidence I have and don't have, there is a point of taking this to hearing? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
  4. #5: I have not, I received the defence yesterday and have been working on making counterclaims to their points. Not sure what SAR is #6: I know the garage: - "J HOWARD MOT CENTRE, REAR OF 2 ALEXANDRA ROAD, SKERTON, LANCASTER, LA1 2DE" It seems to be independent however I was unable to find their companies house entry for some reason... I am unaware whether that is their default garage. The last 2 tests performed on the vehicle were from that garage. One fail, one pass on the same day (22/01/2020). #9: All I have are the phone records stating that I have made a phone call to Forton motors, also some notes I have made after the conversations. I don't have recorded conversations as in audio files. #10: All I have is the notes I've made after the phone conversations. No recordings of the fact they said it was the sensors. Forton Motors have said in their letter dated 11/03/2020 the following: - "Please be aware though that engine management lights can come on for any number of reasons and the manufacturers advise customers to stop driving the vehicle immediately in case they cause further damage which retailer cannot be held liable for". - This is in response to my first letter dated: 28/02/2020 where I clearly stated the identified fault code and potential causes as per mechanics advice. #11: Other than phone logs showing that I've made a phone call, there's nothing there that could confirm that. #12: I have formally informed them in a letter of complaint about the fault code on the 28/02/2020. I have told them the fault code on the 26/02/2020 during phone call conversations however I have no tangible evidence of that other than phone logs. #14 I believe they are still referring to the 26/02/2020. At that point I was just getting advice from a local mechanic. In order to obtain an actual quote, I'd have had to pay the mechanic ~£200 to take the engine apart. However, on the 26/02/2020, I have had numerous phonecall conversations with Forton Motors, where I made it clear to them about the fault code and the 2 potential causes: Sensors (£150 costs), Camchain (£700 - 900 costs), as that was all the information I had from the mechanic without taking the car apart. I couldn't get a detailed quote without letting the car be taken apart. Again, I informed Forton Motors about this during a phonecall conversation but I cannot prove in terms of the things that were said (if anything, I have the notes but I'm not sure they're admissable) #15 Nope, only phone logs #17 Don't think I can #18: What would be the formal way to ask them about this? Or is that going to happen during the hearing? Unfortunately no, I feel like that would have been a useful piece of evidence. Smartly, they have said all these things in the phonecalls which I have not recorded. They have said in their only letter they have ever sent to me (dated: 11/03/2020) the following: "We acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 28 February and note your comments. As per our recent telephone conversation, you were going to have your vehicle looked at by your local garage so could you please forward their detailed report along with their quote for the repairs. Once we have received their quote we can then discuss this matter further. Alternatively forward the quote to our aftersales team at A1Approved for a faster response - claims@a1approved.co.uk" Generally speaking, the only formal piece of evidence from them is the letter they sent on the 11/03/2020. The rest was in the phone calls. I have responded to that letter with another 3 but never heard from them again, despite the fact they received them. #19: Nothing written, but they refused in the phonecalls by saying that: "we do not handle the repairs, contact our aftersales team at a1approved.co.uk" I am also taking their lack of response to my 3 letters after the 11/03/2020 as a form of refusal as there was 0 communication on their part after that letter. #23: I agree! The cover they have provided me with covers only mechanical faults which they knew full well. Yet during the telephone conversations they have been extremely adamant it "must be the sensors, it cannot be the camchain". They stuck to that spiel only after I provided them with the fault code. They were also adamant to contact the warranty and provide them with quote so that Forton Motors can speak to the warranty aftersales "team" and "sort it out for me", which I would say refutes their claims that I didn't inform them about it. Unfortunately, all of this was during phone calls... #24.5: Me neither... #25: Very true. There was nothing to obstruct as they have made no efforts to continue communicating with me about the matter, apart from that letter on the 11/03/2020. Could you elaborate on the comments you've made to points 21/22/24? Thank you very much again!
  5. Please find a list of my responses to each of their points Response to defence.pdf
  6. I received them in a paper form but I don't have a scanner myself and the scans I made of these are done on a very old scanner that my partner has let me use. I could try later today at my workplace if its crucial to get them in PDFs
  7. Unfortunately that's as best as I can get them. They're scans but the documents I've received from them were already in such format.
  8. Hello again, On 11/06/2020, they have filed Acknowledgment of Service and today I received their defense in mail, which is a rather confusing one. Here's my take on what they said in each point: Point #10: I have informed Forton Motors that the light has come on and that I have taken the vehicle to a local garage, which provided me with a fault code - which I gave them during the telephone conversation. Point #12 / #13 / #14 / #15: At this point they already had the fault code provided to them via telephone. This was the day I took the car to a mechanic, who advised me not to go through the warranty service but advised by Forton Motors, I have called the warranty to ask about things (never gone through with any claim). Point #18: At this point, they have not informed me about any correct procedures. During the telephone conversation, they have advised me to go through with the warranty service as opposed to exercise my rights via the Act. Point #19: This letter is the first time they have requested any garage reports. Point #21: I have sent them 3 more letters after that clearly acknowledging their reply. I have all the recorded mail info for this. Point #22: Again, no claims were filed under the warranty, I have simply contacted the warranty once on the 26th Feb after being lulled into thinking this should be the way forward by Forton Motors. Any point after that I don't even know what to say to as it is plain wrong and false. What's interesting is that they mention Appendix 1 (pre-delivery inspection) but it has not been attached to the files I've got in the mail. I have instead 2 appendices noted as "Appendix 2" so I'm not sure which one is which one or whether they have actually done any pre-delivery inspections. Additionally, there is no mention of any of the letters I have sent them in reply to the letter they've sent on 11th of March. That is 1 additional letter of complaint asking about Alternative Dispute Resolution service + 2 Letters before claim. All my letters were recorded postage which I have proof of. Any advice on the way forward would be greatly appreciated. Damian
  9. All done! Thank you very much again! I intend to click off the claim on 25th (given they don't respond to the letter by then). Is there anything I should keep in mind once I do that? I believe they have 14 days to respond with a defence but I'm uncertain on the order of things happening should they do so.
  10. Great, thanks for that! Also, if I want to claim interest: The box on MCO that asks for "Date money became owed to you (dd/mm/yyyy):". Do I put the date when I paid for the repair / the date I sent the 2nd Letter Before Claim or maybe when the car developed a fault...?
  11. Draft: I have changed the right to reject to right the repair as the 30 days has passed since purchase when the fault developed. Also, not sure how to claim any other costs. I have maybe one receipt for a bus fare to work since the fault has developed as I didn't keep them (thought it won't get to the point of making a court case). Unsure whether I could still claim for travel without any proof (especially that I've been working from home since the lockdown)
  12. On 7th of May I've sent the second Letter Before Claim. I'm in the process of typing up my particulars for the Money Claims online. There is a limited space so I'm not certain how much detail to put and how to word things. This is what I came up with: This is as much as I can fit into the box without going over the limit. Should I make a more detailed list of particulars and send them to Forton Motors after I file a claim on 25th? If so, what should I put in the MCO box?
  13. Reading the Wikipedia description I think I can see why you'd suggest to read this...
  14. I'll correct some very minor details to make sure everything adds up and following the quote I'll get tomorrow, will send this off. I'll keep this thread updated with the progress. Your responses were absolutely amazing and cleared a lot of the misunderstanding I had! I'm working towards a PhD in Computer Science in Lancashire. Again, thank you so much!
  15. Thanks again for another reply. Yes it is a shame. The car has developed a fault on the 31st day since the purchase which disqualifies me. What would be my possible reply to a similar statement made in court by the trader? I have looked through their website and yes, new vehicles appear on there. Not sure how I should check whether they operate or not otherwise. I've found a few reviews online claiming they've bought a vehicle from the trader a month ago or so. Probably not a viable thing I can present in court but its an indication. I live nearby an another mechanic's garage and taking your advice, I've just walked up to them to have a brief chat. I've been told to come back tomorrow with the receipt from the repair (so they know exactly what has been done to the car) but from initial description that I told them, they assume between £1000 and £1400 for a similar repair in their garage. I'm not yet certain as to whether that quote includes fault investigation or not, but I will clarify that tomorrow. Seems like I will be able to get something of similar sort from the aforementioned mechanic. Yes, I intend to pursue legal action against them. I want to prepare as best I can for this so I'm very grateful for your advice on this. Another question I have regarding the 2nd letter of claim: Should this explain my reasoning as to why I decided to repair the car without informing them (performing initial investigations and quotes at my own cost) or should this be a letter of a similar format to the one I sent on 30th of March with the included quote and repair receipt? (Edit): I live around 15 miles from the trader
  16. Thank you very much for your reply. I wasn't aware that the additional warranties are so useless, that's good to know for the future! In terms of the quotes, I agree that should have been my course of action. The initial mechanic's advice mentioned that to determine the true cause of the problem would cost me £200, due to the need to take the engine apart and put it back together. I would have to pay 2x that to gather 2 quotes which at my current situaton would not have been the easiest pill to swallow. I guess I could have diagnosed it once, put it back together, take it to another place, take it apart again, diagnose and then leave it taken apart until I received a reply from the Trader in terms of the quote, although I'm not sure whether the time the vehicle would occupy the second mechanic's workshop would not incur further costs too. I was going mostly off Citizen's Advice information at that point, which suggested my course of action, although probably with me misunderstanding some. The reason I decided to repair the vehicle whilst diagnosing it within the same time, was that I didn't receive a reply from the trader to the letter before claim but also the fact I live with my parent who has some underlying conditions and do not own a vehicle themselves. Typically making shopping was rather easy as either they went for a quick stock up every few days or I made a bus trip to a supermarket, but due to COVID19, having an operational vehicle would have made this a lot easier and safer both both of us as I could have made shopping in bulk and much less frequently. Additionally, I was under the impression that the burden of diagnosing what really is the cause of the engine light coming on was on them, and I shouldn't have to incur additional costs just to make it easier to them. Bit of a priority call which I have made without really considering many things. In terms the letter of claim, I have sent it around 30th of March and waited for 14 days to receive a reply. Then it took me a further 2 weeks to get hold of a mechanic and get the vehicle repaired, which brings us to roughly last 1.5 weeks. I have picked up on the matter again now as I've found a bit of time around my work, but something ticked me off as I was filling up the Money Claims online forms and decided to search a bit online again before I send things off, which led me to this forum. I have not yet sent anything to Forton Motors as I was about to make the claim online and rather unsure whether I need to send them anything further. Please find attached some of the letters I sent to them over the course of past few months. Again, thank you so much for the reply! letters.pdf
  17. Hello, On January 25th 2020, I have purchased a 2011 Vauxhall Corsa D Excite from Forton Motors used car trader for £2700. This is my first car, which I've saved up for over 3 years to buy and have no experience dealing with dealerships or experience in spotting anything faulty in the car (not that there was anything to spot on it) According to the purchase contract, the trader has performed a full engine service, MOT and provided me with 6 months road tax and fixed a driver's door hinge which I've noticed is clicking a bit. They have completed everything as per contract and I was happy to drive away with the vehicle. Or I think they did... The service book seems to have a stamp but I'm not sure how well the car was checked. Within the contract, they have provided me with a 6 months 3rd party warranty from A1 Approved Ltd. (As if the regular consumer right to repair was not already there..., making it out to be a big deal - think they spotted a new buyer). After 31 days since the purchase (26th of Feb - the car has done around 750 - 800 miles at that point), an engine light on the car came on and the engine started making odd noises. I called the trader and informed them about it, asking them to have a look at it (At that point I was unaware of my right to refuse or right to repair , I was a bit blind with things, believing in what they say). They told me to get the car checked and call the warranty company. I have taken the car to a local garage for inspection. The mechanic has checked the OBD2 fault codes which came up with P0017 - Miscorrelation of the cam/crank chain. (Likely faults: broken sensors or stretched camchain £100 / £800 costs accordingly). The mechanic has kindly offered to not charge me for this as he noted that I should request a repair from the trader. This opened my eyes a bit and after reading some more and contacting Citizen's Advice Bureau, I've decided to demand my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for a right to repair under the vehicle not being fit for purpose. I have called them a few times explaining my position. The trader stated that "IT MUST BE THE SENSORS" and not the chain and that even though the warranty they provided me with doesn't cover the sensors, they will "speak to the warranty service" and see what they can do about it. Smelled really fishy to me... Following the phonecalls and no consensus, I have informed the trader in writing about the fault, noting that I am exercising my right to repair under the above Act and gave them fair time to respond (note the car has not moved from the driveway since the fault developed). They have responded in writing, advising me to provide them with a detailed report of the fault or directly contact the aforementioned warranty service - saying its the faster way to resolve this. They have also advised me not to drive the car. After reading into the warranty contract, I've found I can maximally claim up to £250 for parts and £0 for labour, on top of not being able to claim anything in case it was the sensor (since its electronics and not mechanical). I have responded to that saying that I do not wish to go the warranty route and would like to exercise my right to repair directly via the trader, informing them that I do not wish to cover any inspection costs associated with diagnosing the fault further. I have also explicitly asked them about Alternative Dispute Resolution service and whether they are part of it or would like to use one. Since then I had no response to that letter. After additional 7 days, I have sent a letter before action for small court claims informing them that I will begin proceedings if I receive no response within 14 days, further reiterating everything. No response to that letter either. (I have sent all letters via recorded (tracked) Royal Mail post) Don't think they can claim no-response due to covid as I can see their website being updated with new stock for showroom every now and then: http://www.fortonmotors.co.uk/ After waiting 14 days, I have taken the vehicle to a local garage, which has diagnosed the fault (stretched camchain which has skipped a tooth). The diagnosis, repair and parts costed me over £900 on top of numerous bus fares to work, being unable to drive the car, wasting my time and money. The car is now operational and driving nicely after the repair. On Google Reviews, the trader has a few bad reviews claiming problems with the warranty and their aftersales behaviour, with several people stating that they are "sleazy salesmen". Wish I read these before I bought the car (I was desperate for an independent mode of transport for personal reasons). What I would like to kindly ask you if I should go through with the small claim case against them? I have been informed by Citizen's Advice Bureau that the warranty they provided me with does not remove my rights as a consumer under the CRA 2015 yet I'm stil rather unsure on the law. Due to being a student and living off student stipend with little help from parents, I'd rather avoid court fees knowing I stand no chance against them. What do you guys think?
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