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- Consumer Action Group

Right, letter written and posted.

Will keep you updated on anything else I receive from the court

Sorry yes, in torrem was just a typo on my part because I was rushing.

Alleycat, thanks for that info. I'm drafting my letter right now and will hand it in tomorrow. I will keep you posted on what the outcome is.

Many thanks.

More gumf I imagine. I really don't know what more to say.

HELP!

Will I ever get there?

I've just opened a letter from the court asking for me to explain WHY the charges are unlawful, which I thought I did in my original letter.

The letter says "The claimant still needs to say the legal basis he claims the charges were unlawful". I called them and explained that the charges were not an accurate estimate of what it costs them, that they are added in torrem, etc. but they're not accepting it.

Anybody else been asked this?

Advice on what to send back would be helpful.

To cut an 8 month, extremely long story short, I was flogged a mobile phone contract with 3 mobile via a cold-call from an agent called Communications Direct. It was a ‘too-good-to-be-true’ offer that I should have seen coming, but upon opening the box, was a pack of lies. I complained and was told to return the phone via a courier (would have cost me a shed load and was very skint at the time due to new baby in the house!) so sought help from Trading Standards. They told me I was not liable for return costs and wrote to CD on my behalf, explaining this and that I was covered un the Distance Selling Regulations. They kept very quiet and did nothing.

Anyway, the phone never got returned and Three sent out the debt collectors as I didn’t pay any bills. I’ve kept in good contact with three and the debt collectors but neither of them listened. It then went to a solicitor. I explained the legal side to them and it’s all gone very quiet. Not heard anything for about 4 weeks.

Right, one of my credit cards has reached the end of its 0% intro offer to its time to switch. Had a right shock when I got refused a credit card (1st time ever) so rang to see why. They said it was due to my credit score and when I looked on Equifax, I’ve got a massive red mark “3 missed payments” and what looks like a defaulted account – Yep, all to do with Three.

What I want to know is how I can get this mark removed. It’s costing me money every month in interest on my credit card that I cannot switch due to this mark.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Alleycat, thanks for the link to this thread. I'm going to use this letter also and send it 1st class recorded tomorrow.

I'll keep you posted.

Hi

 

Sent this via email yesterday

 

Dear Sir/Madam

I am a member of a group of consumers who are being forced in most cases into taking legal action to recover bank charges which have been applied to our accounts unlawfully.

Although many of us have been forced to lodge money claims in the County Courts none of the banks have allowed the matter to reach a hearing as they would have to justify these charges which the OFT have also recently stated are unlawful.

I and many others consider the banks conduct to be an abuse of our judicial system as it appears it is quite blatantly being used by the banks as a tactic to put consumers off pursuing their legitimate rights in the full knowledge that if unsuccessful they will not allow these matters to come to trial anyway

Very recently a matter, namely Elliott - v- LBS was transferred to the Mercantile Court. This rightly caused many District Judges to stay proceedings in their courts until the higher court had made a determination on the matter.

However like all other cases the matter was settled pre-hearing by the bank in question some 3 weeks ago yet district judges appear to be still staying hearings in the mistaken belief that the matter has yet to be determined.

This is of course acting to the benefit of the banks but to the clear detriment of the ordinary consumer like me

Anyway before many more of us are put to the additional cost not to say time & trouble of applying to the courts to have the stay lifted is there any way in which you can bring the current situation to the urgent attention of the County Court Judges

Thank you in anticipation of your considerations

Can I send something like this to Sheffield Court?

So how come I've got a letter this morning saying that my case is being stayed pending the outcome of the Elliot case? Do I just write back to the court saying that this case has already been settled?

Right, we have more info.

I have a letter from Sheffield County Court stating upon reading both allocation questionnaires, the District Judge Directs that:-

The court proposes to stay these proceedings pending the outcome of Elliot -v- TSB. Any representations to be made by 1st August 2006. The court awaits your response.

Now, does this mean that I can still ask for my case to be heard individually? Do I have to say whay I think my case differs? I presume this Elliot case is the one that's being spoke about on other threads (which I've only briefly looked at so far).

Next steps advice appreciated.

OOoo it's all gone quiet. How can I find out what's happening?

To cut an extremely long story short, I was sold a Three mobile phone via a cold call from an agency who promised me this cannot be beaten deal which I accepted.

Upon opening the box and reading the T&C's I found it to be a load of rubbish. I told them to collect the phone (as advised by Trading Standards) which they refused to do and so when I didn't pay any bills it went to a debt collector, then to their solicitor. Their solicitor has not replied to my letter detailing all of this for about a month now. I just checked my credit score and I have now got a 3 months missed payment mark which i want removing.

How do I go about this? Do I have to take Three to court?

Right, it's going.

Thanks for the advice peeps. Donation will be made on completion.

Right, I'm ready to send a copy of the spreadsheet together with my note, which is detailed below. Is this ok to send? Do I need to say "with the judge's permission"?

Help appreciated.

I dispute that I have filed a “summary” of my claim and also that I failed to list the particulars of the claim. I refer to the letter sent to me on the 27 March 2006 by David Chapman (Customer Relations Manager) stating that the defendant actually does know the exact dates, amounts and reasons for the charges, as they have actually admitted to them and offered me a part refund on the same communication. I therefore claim that point 1 of this statement is untrue. If this is to become an issue then I will readily show this offer to the court (with the judge’s permission) as I consider that in these circumstances it would not be correct for the defendant to rely on any without prejudice action.

The defendant calls for me provide strict proof of each charge which is enclosed with this document. I compiled this information in conjunction with another communication from the defendant in which they provided me with the past 6 years worth of my bank statements. I therefore call that point 2 of their defence is untrue as it was the defendant who sent me the evidence I needed to collate my claim against them, therefore they readily had access to this information and are merely delaying my claim.

With regards to Barclays’ statement on liquidated damages, the sum specified for the breach of the contract is not a genuine pre-estimate of the loss that they will incur but is excessive and is inserted in torrem. Therefore the defendant has imposed a penalty on my account for each breach rather than an accurate approximation for the bank to send an automated, computer generated letter, generally without any human intervention.

UPDATE- After waiting 10 days for Sheffield Crown Court to get Barclays to resend their COMPLETED defence, I called them to find out what was happening.

I spoke to a lady there who check my file and discovered that the person dealing with my case has not sent off the request to Barclays. Hmm. Probably forgotten.

However, good news. She contacted Barclays and they faxed it straight through. Should have a copy of it by Thursday.

No idea about the signature thing sorry; but I wanted to make sure that you're aware; you cannot show the judge anything headed "Without Prejudice" without his/her permission. This includes their admission that they know the amount of charges and their offer. This is just to beef up BF's post above - I wasn't clear/certain that you knew this from your posts.

StoneLaughter, could you go into this in a bit more detail please? Not sure what this means.

Thanks.

By the way, fees for allocation questionnaires should be settled by the defendant. I have noticed that some people forget to ask for this.

So you're telling me that the £100 the court is asking for should be paid by Barclays? Amazing. I didn't know that.

My copy is not signed either, but it does say on the bottom of the page "REFERENCE COPY - to be used by the court for identification purposes only".

I would therefore assume they have not sent me an original which I will be requesting tomorrow.

I would have thought as long as you can provide your Name, DOB, address (including any previous addresses) and mothers maiden name, they can cross-reference this info with what they hold. They can check your identity this way anyway if you dont know your telephone banking passcode. If they hold info about you (and they certainly still will), its your right to access it.

Hope this helps/.

Thats exaclty what I thought squishy. They have quite clearly lied on the first 2 points in which I have documented communications to prove.

I'm concerned about the missing information from the claim form though. See point 8.

Just about to go to court with them.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=11583

See here.

I have received a copy of Barclays defence statement and was wondering what your thoughts were. Has anybody here gone to court and won against Barclays yet?

OK, so far I have followed all advice and guidance to the letter, and am quite bemused at some of the particulars of there defence. I have copied out for your pleasure word-for-word below.

1. The particulars of the claim are summary and do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and / or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. Accordingly, this defence is summary in nature and the Defendant reserves the right to amend this statement of case in due course. It is averred that the claimant has failed to identify and state any cause of action against the defendant to establish any legal liability for the sum claimed.

(What total twoddle. I have a letter from Barclays, signed and dated 27th March 2006, admitting that the have taken £1360.00 from me over 6 years in charges, and have offered me £520.00 back which they say was “fair”.)

2. Notwithstanding the claimant’s failure to correctly identify and particularise an account held with the defendant, it is admitted that the claimant has an account, number ******** sort code ******. However, to the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, paid referral fees or any other such fees), the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

(Again an untrue statement. Barclays (at my demand) eventually sent me through my past 6 years statements, with which I went through and found dates and reasons for the charges. These were compiled onto the spreadsheet from this site and the interest at 8% worked out. Barclays were the ones who sent me this information – therefore they readily have access to it and can identify the charges themselves (as they had already done in point 1 above).

3. The defendant is entitled to charge the claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

a. The defendant’s right to charge a paid referral fee where the defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25)

b. The defendants right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account - £35 per item (previously £30)

c. The defendant’s entitlement, if the claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

4. The defendant’s standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the claimant exceeds his authorised overdraft limit).

5. If and to the extent it is the claimant’s case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimant’s account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraft.

6. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively, it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999, or are in breach of the unfair (contracts) terms act 1977.

7. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account,.

8. If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the….. (And that’s where it ends. Where do I find the rest of this point?)

Also in this pack, I have been sent an Allocation Questionnaire (Small claims track) and that there is a £100 fee! More money!

Any help/advice on next steps greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Alan.

Hi there, sorry for the late reply.

I received a letter through Money Claim Online saying that they intend defending the whole claim and that they have 28 days to do so. There wasn't a date set on that particular letter.

I will of course keep you updated on anything else I receive.

Well its been a couple of months since I started my claim, all done in accordance with the guidelines on this site. They have, however, entered a defence.

How likely is this now to go to court? I read on the MSE website that a vast majority of them don't even enter a defence.

The person who's defending is a "Trainee" which made me smile.

Interesting. They have given you 100% of your charges back, but offered me less than 50%. They have taken £1360.00 from me over the past 6 years and offered £520 back.

Cheeky gets.

Let the games begin!