could be as its automated and cost approx notihng!...especially if you bank solely online and they dont have the the 'expense' of a letter etc...i bank with Nationwide and never get a letter when charged etc...not even a note on my online messages, just shows on my statements online

I dont think any figure is acceptable...its now been set at £12 as a maximum but that doesnt make it right! You can claim back 6 years...read FAQ on how and why and then have a look at the examples in the bank claims area Good luck

how old is the debt...? i think they have to take your offer seriously...whats the alternative - if they take you to court the court will ask you for outgoing etc and will accept what you offer...also have you had a letter from Halifax to confirm they have passed the debt on? I'm having issues with CapQuest collections over a Halifax debt - if you havent send this to request the information before you start paying someone without the correct documentation! - halifax dont want to supply it to me as they say its not their prob now as passed on...but they passed it on without the documents! Dear Sir/Madam Re: Account No/Reference No: XXXXXXXX I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter. 1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx. 2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists. 3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. Yours faithfully XXX include a postal order for £1 to cover their costs and wait and see what comes back, then ask them to re-consider your offer. Good luck

this gets better - in looking over all my paper work and found the 3 forms i have all have different sums on them and i have been sold payment protection insurance...i wasnt even offered it - didnt know it was added on - i'm so unhappy about this, i cant believe they can work like this - is there anything i can do about this company?

it was arranged through the dealership as all black horse finance is so you dont even get that privilge...i've written to black horse and given 14days and i will prepare a letter to the FLA as i know black horse will try and fob me off! will keep you posted

this is what happened to me...(see link in my signature for my thread) I called trading standards and they have told me that so long as black horse have this cluase in their loan it was my oversight for not reading it...now surly if its a personal loan they have no right to A reposses the car and B to add it to the HPI register as its not a HP agrement! good luck with this...having spoken to one of their stubborn manager i'd say we're gonna need it. Just found this on the FLA website: FLA :: Motor Finance :: Loan, Lease or Hire - a guide to buying a car Personal Loan A personal loan from a bank, building society or other loan provider (though occasionally available via dealerships) can offer many advantages. Interest rates are usually competitive, loans are often quick and easy to arrange and offer buyers the flexibility to shop around different dealerships for a deal that suits you. But be sure you know exactly what rate (APR) the lender is actually prepared to give you. Loans can be secured – using your home or other asset as security for the loan – or unsecured. If the loan is not secured on the vehicle, the purchaser has the option to sell at leisure without having to repay the loan. Using a personal loan to buy a car restricts the option of financing other major outlays – like holidays or home improvements – by this means. Always give full consideration to the implications of borrowing against the security of your home. Always make sure you are not misled by the headline APR interest rate in the advertisement. Check the specific rate you are offered and re-visit other options before finalizing the deal. now i am right in thinking this is not a secured loan on the car...they never told me this when i brought it and it just says personal loan on the forms i have...not secure pesonal loan...

yes its unenforceable if they cannot proove teh bedt...which indeed is likely as its so old...you could try it...are you paying credit companies such as banks or are they collection agencies?

well its your call but i honestly see it as a 'waste' of £10 as you cant really claim past 6 years unless exceptional (correct me if wrong) do EuroDebt charge you anything for late payments admin etc, if you you maybe able to get that back? do you have much left to pay? not that its relevant but if you concider upping your payments to the companies by the £38 on a pro-rata basis then it should work in your favour...if your lucky any defaults will have dropped off and credit companies should have left your file with 6 years of 'good' ticks - get hold of your credit file and check...

I have 2 accounts and had a credit card: The story: Account 1 – overdraft £1000 Account 2 – over draft £0 Credit Card £500 limit My bills came out off account 2 and account 1 was mine and always over drawn but not in excess of its limit, my credit card had £500 limit and was always paid on time and under it’s limit, I didn’t earn enough one month to cover my direct debits from account 2 so it got a £400 unauthorised overdraft…they let stuff go out and charged me for it and over drew me £200 then £200 charges went on. I had a letter asking me to discuss repayment. I wrote explained the situation and offered them £50 a month to clear the £400. Then next thing I had was a letter with a £1700 ‘managed loan’ form attached saying we accept your offer of re-payment at £50 per month, but have converted it into a manager loan. In addition we have closed your credit card and removed your overdraft facilities, your switch cards will no longer work and new solo (what use are they) cards will be in the post in the next 5-10 days. It said fill in the form with in 10 days and return to your local branch, if you choose not to accept the loan your out standing balance of £1688 will be payable in full immediately…they also said I can get my facilities back after 12 month of running a clean account after the loan is paid off … so 7 years then! (Needless to say I now bank elsewhere!) Now I felt I had no choice as no one would have given me £1700 at the time as I was a student so no / little income and I have had bad credit in the past…thing is this was 12 months ago and I still owe £1400!!! That’s right, I pay £50 per month and they stick approx £20-28 interest on it every month!!! I can’t increase my payments but I feel I’m being charged high interest for something I didn’t want and they ‘made’ me have. I know I can probably claim back some charges but tbh they are probably under £200 as I had always run this account well and within its limits – question is can I get them to reduce or freeze their interest so this debt will actually get paid off!

For a start stop paying Eurodebt - they are taking £38 you could have / your creditors could have! CAB can do this for you for free - you can even do it your self using the calculators on the national debt helplines web site... as for claiming back charges - i guess you can only claim back if any have been applied in the past 6 yeasr...as you have been paying Eurodebt then i would say your probably havent had any...and you cant get your £38 back off them as you are paying for a service (albeit a rip-off) unless anyone disagrees?

I know - i had seen there website and actually assumed it was HP untill i re-read my contract, i would have thought the dealership should have explained what type of finace it was, even if they didnt go through it (i know i should have asked and read the full terms) I think i will check this with the OFT as i dont think its a fair term and condition in a contract, after all it should be a Loan or HP not a combination of both! A bank woulndn't give you a loan for say a TV then tell you you cant sell it and if you do they want all money plus interest back in 7 days...its just not fair imo

I contacted the HPI people yesterday and they called black horse on my behalf. Black Horse state that there is a clause in my terms and conditions that says if I sell the vehicle I have to pay them the full balance within 7 days of sale. That’s why they add it to the HPI register. But the fact its on the HPI register means I cant sell it so I don’t see how this clause is even valid! I’ll go through my contract tonight and keep you informed but I still think it’s unfair as they have given me a loan with all the draw backs of HP and non of the gains…plus the as they have given me a £9000 loan when i was under the impression i was taking out a £4900 loan Does this mean I’m screwed?

I was planning on sending this - its a bit poo but to the point, any comments? Black Horse Ltd St William House, Tresillian Terrace, Cardiff CF10 5BH Date: 05.07.2006 Dear Sir or Madam: Account number – XXXXXXXXXX Vehicle Registration – XXXX XXX After recently obtaining a HPI check (copy attached) for the above vehicle I am a little confused as to why there is outstanding finance shown against this vehicle. As far as I’m aware I brought this vehicle with a Black Horse personal loan, this is confirmed on my signed agreement and has also been confirmed by a number of members of your staff. As this is not a Hire Purchase agreement I would like to know on what grounds you have placed it on the HPI register. I would request that this information is provided to me within the next 14 days. Yours Faithfully etc

I wish it was that simple, they said no one was able to talk to me and they couldnt call me back - they have assured me its a loan not HP and i have paper work to back this up...I e-mailed HPI people so they can confirm personal loans dont show up on their records and i have spoken to Consumer Direct who seemed confused and told me to send a recorded letter to them and ask what their reasoning is for adding it to the HPI register is...i guess thats what i have to do for now?

Nick this thread is here now : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/14629-black-horse-car-land.html#post112918 i think this one is in the wrong place and will be deleted soon - see my last post on the new link it may be informative to you

UPDATE: just got off the phone to BlackHorse: they say the car was brought with a personal loan. I CAN sell the car - but all money goes to them, they say its on the HPI register as they have an interest it it... when i said hwo do i sell a car on the HPI register i was told, the buyer will have to call and pay BlackHorse what they agree with me, then they will take it off the HPI register and bill me the outstanding loan figure minus what they get for the car...this doesnt sound right or fair to me? who would i call to clarify they can do this...trading standards?

they told me it shouldn't be on there - they dont log it...even though they have. they also said i can sell the car but if i sell i have to give them all the money i get with proof that was all i made and then make arrangements to pay the remainder of the loan off... i'm really not sure about this but it doesn't seem fair to me...they cant have it both ways can they?

I'm in same boat - though its a halifax debt not BoS - they havent sent CapQuest any info so as far as i'm concerned they cant collect it - but Halifax dont want to collect it as they have passed it on...i think i can get CapQuest off my back but i really want to claim back my charges off halifax - thing is i dont want them to start chasing me again! i'd better start my own thread about this! - if you need any info on CapQuest etc then there is loads on gumble text website - lots of unhappy people fighting them!

i have the agrement and its a loan but its on the HPI check as owing.

Hello, Now I’m not sure weather this should go in vehicle retailers and manufactures, garage services or finance under Lloyds so as it mentions all 3 I’ve posted here…Mods feel free to move it! The Saga: Feb 2005 I brought a Vauxhall Corsa 1.0litre 12valve Club from CarLand in Cannock using Black Horse for the financial side…now I knew then this was a mistake but I needed a car for work and I couldn’t get credit at the time with any other lenders (even Yes said No!!! – thank god). I have never missed a payment but I now owe more than my car was worth 17months ago I need to either sell or return this car as I have since moved to central London and haven’t even driven the car since January this year, yet have to pay to insure it and tax it as I only have on-street parking, I’m at a loss and hope some one can help me! Here’s my issues: CarLand: 1: they sold me a product called ‘Suregarud’ this is a paint protection plan and the salesman said it should be £299, but it was ‘in with the deal’. Now in with the deal I assumed was free…however upon going through my financial records today it has become apparent they have charged me £100 for this (of course interest is added over the 6 year agreement!!!) – I never had this product applied as I never got round to it and feel that firstly I was mis-sold it but secondly as I have never received the treatment / product then I should be able to get it back plus the interest? 2: They sold me a ‘warranty’ that was £800 for 12 months, again this has interest on it and is paid over 6 years…now I remember him taking to me about it and me saying no thank-you, I defiantly had this conversation with him as my dad used to be a mechanic so would be able to fix anything that could go wrong with the car for a lot less than £800 in the first year – bearing in mind the car was under 3 years old at the time of purchase so shouldn’t have been giving me 800quids worth of issues in the first 12montsh of ownership. The order has been ticked to show I didn’t want it then crossed out and ticked to say I did want it with the salesman’s signature next to it, I’m adamant that I didn’t want this product I would never pay £800 over 6 years for a 12month product (if that makes sense) and surely if the order had changed I should have initialled the form to say I had changed my mind not him? 3: When sold the finance no-one explained to me what it was i.e.: HP or Loan etc – I know it would have been in the terms and conditions but the sad truth is I was so happy I could get back on the road in something new that I didn’t care! – my bad, but it should have still been made clear imo 4: I had a part exchange on an old Mark 3 Astra – I said £100 would be fine but checking it they gave me £1…it was worth more than that for scrap and it still had full MOT and run well! Black Horse Finance: 1: I assumed as it was a car this was a HP agreement – I called to asked how much I had paid (£2700) and asked if I could terminate it and hand it back as this was over half of the cost of the car (£4900). They said it’s not a HP agreement and it’s a Personal Loan, as I was told as it wasn’t a HP agreement I asked could I sell the car, they said yes I could sell the car, yet upon doing a HPI check the finance is outstanding and linked – can they do this as they surely cant have it both ways? Wither an unlinked loan or linked HP? 2: the loan was for £9000 the car was £5000 – 4900 for the car and 100 for the Suregaurd that I never had applied, the rest is interest…can they really add all the interest in one lump and not apply the interest daily? Now I owe £6300 for a car I brought 17 months ago at £4900 after paying £2700 off it! 3: The ‘extras’ Gap insurance, Service plan, (which I wanted) and the warranty that I didn’t ask for but have signed for, are run under a different loan, again they had set prices, then the interest was added in one lump and spread over 6 years – this loan was approx £2000 and I owe around £1600 still, why is this separate…it should have been in the same shouldn’t it? My problem is it shows on my credit file as me having over 11K of loans (albeit with some paid off) to black horse when In reality I am paying for stuff I don’t/didn’t want and also showing I owe more than I brought products for in the first place…how can I start to sort this mess out as calling them seems to get me pushed from person to person. Sorry it’s long winded people….any questions lol?

Hi. I have a basic account with the Woolwich; it’s had a few charges over the year’s maybe a few hundred pounds. (have just sent off for my statements) I want to claim these back following this chain of events: In December (I think) paid £60 to bring my account back to zero as I have no overdraft facility and they were charging me £3 a day for going below zero by £1.20 – I cleared the balance and asked to close the account, they said I couldn’t close the account as it would take 24hours to update the system to zero…bearing in mind I paid cash in I don’t understand why this was a problem! – anyway to cut a long story short another £3 went on as a charge for the day I paid the money in, this then over-drew me yet again…the £3 a day continued until the balance said -£43 and that’s where its stayed for months now…I want to close this account but I don’t want the same thing to happen again…I will be applying for all my charges back but what I would like to know is should I pay in £43 now and close the account before they get my claim, and decide to close it with a minus balance (and prob put a default mark for -£43 on my file), or should I just claim and hope they refund my account back to credit then close it? This account has always been recorded as a good one on my credit file, even now its showing an OK by it as it always does…(the credit file shows a £50 buffer that the bank tell me I don’t have!)…I would like it to be closed showing this too! So what would be best – pay in £43 and close it then claim or claim now…answers on a post card please.

i didnt (lol) - it was all they had in my price range, and i needed a car how can i be blinded by the sales man changing the boxes i ticked from no to yes and HIM signing it to say he'd altered what i had put...

believe me there is nothing i would like to do more...but its a corsa...no one wants it, i'd fire the thing but cant bring myself to do it! if i could sell it then at least i'd have say 2 - 2.5K in my pocket to clear other stuff like my credit card etc... mmm - surely there must be something i can do about the 'mis-sold' warrenty?

I'm not convinced this is right as my Call credit report is great - even get a "checkmyfile" score of 5 out of 5 etc, but american express wont touch me and they only use them according to this lol...it would be great if you could find out this info before applying and being refused.

JUST NOTICED THIS IS IN THE WRONG 'GENERAL' SECTION - CAN SOMEONE PLEASE MOVE IT TO THE CORRECT PLACE. Hello, Now I’m not sure weather this should go in vehicle retailers and manufactures, garage services or finance under Lloyds so as it mentions all 3 I’ve posted here…Mods feel free to move it! The Saga: Feb 2005 I brought a Vauxhall Corsa 1.0litre 12valve Club from CarLand in Cannock using Black Horse for the financial side…now I knew then this was a mistake but I needed a car for work and I couldn’t get credit at the time with any other lenders (even Yes said No!!! – thank god). I have never missed a payment but I now owe more than my car was worth 17months ago I need to either sell or return this car as I have since moved to central London and haven’t even driven the car since January this year, yet have to pay to insure it and tax it as I only have on-street parking, I’m at a loss and hope some one can help me! Here’s my issues: CarLand: 1: they sold me a product called ‘Suregarud’ this is a paint protection plan and the salesman said it should be £299, but it was ‘in with the deal’. Now in with the deal I assumed was free…however upon going through my financial records today it has become apparent they have charged me £100 for this (of course interest is added over the 6 year agreement!!!) – I never had this product applied as I never got round to it and feel that firstly I was mis-sold it but secondly as I have never received the treatment / product then I should be able to get it back plus the interest? 2: They sold me a ‘warranty’ that was £800 for 12 months, again this has interest on it and is paid over 6 years…now I remember him taking to me about it and me saying no thank-you, I defiantly had this conversation with him as my dad used to be a mechanic so would be able to fix anything that could go wrong with the car for a lot less than £800 in the first year – bearing in mind the car was under 3 years old at the time of purchase so shouldn’t have been giving me 800quids worth of issues in the first 12montsh of ownership. The order has been ticked to show I didn’t want it then crossed out and ticked to say I did want it with the salesman’s signature next to it, I’m adamant that I didn’t want this product I would never pay £800 over 6 years for a 12month product (if that makes sense) and surely if the order had changed I should have initialled the form to say I had changed my mind not him? 3: When sold the finance no-one explained to me what it was i.e.: HP or Loan etc – I know it would have been in the terms and conditions but the sad truth is I was so happy I could get back on the road in something new that I didn’t care! – my bad, but it should have still been made clear imo 4: I had a part exchange on an old Mark 3 Astra – I said £100 would be fine but checking it they gave me £1…it was worth more than that for scrap and it still had full MOT and run well! Black Horse Finance: 1: I assumed as it was a car this was a HP agreement – I called to asked how much I had paid (£2700) and asked if I could terminate it and hand it back as this was over half of the cost of the car (£4900). They said it’s not a HP agreement and it’s a Personal Loan, as I was told as it wasn’t a HP agreement I asked could I sell the car, they said yes I could sell the car, yet upon doing a HPI check the finance is outstanding and linked – can they do this as they surely cant have it both ways? Wither an unlinked loan or linked HP? 2: the loan was for £9000 the car was £5000 – 4900 for the car and 100 for the Suregaurd that I never had applied, the rest is interest…can they really add all the interest in one lump and not apply the interest daily? Now I owe £6300 for a car I brought 17 months ago at £4900 after paying £2700 off it! 3: The ‘extras’ Gap insurance, Service plan, (which I wanted) and the warranty that I didn’t ask for but have signed for, are run under a different loan, again they had set prices, then the interest was added in one lump and spread over 6 years – this loan was approx £2000 and I owe around £1600 still, why is this separate…it should have been in the same shouldn’t it? My problem is it shows on my credit file as me having over 11K of loans (albeit with some paid off) to black horse when In reality I am paying for stuff I don’t/didn’t want and also showing I owe more than I brought products for in the first place…how can I start to sort this mess out as calling them seems to get me pushed from person to person. Sorry it’s long winded people….any questions lol?