Hi Guys, Not sure if this is the correct forum but I’ve got a situation with Carpet Right. Last June we purchased 3 off-cuts of carpet from Carpet Right – wouldn’t normally go to a shed but we were in there with someone else and this particular carpet took our eye. It was £620 and £29 for delivery. Both my wife and I are Architects so naturally we took in accurate survey drawings of our house and asked if the end of rolls were suitable for he use we had in mind which was 2 bedrooms and the stairs, we also stressed that it was important for us that the carpet could run all the same direction in the house so no change of direction at the thresholds etc. The salesman agreed that the product was suitable for what we needed and that there was more than enough to do the job, however they didn’t offer a fitting service for this particular carpet. He put the carpet on hold for us and we had a think about it – the next day we called in and paid for the carpet and arranged delivery. A week later the carpet arrived, delivered by a freelance fitter – we asked him to quote for the fitting but he wasn’t interested, then over the course of the next six months we tried 4 or 5 companies out of the yellow pages and no one was interested. I placed an advert on trust a trader and my hammer and no one responded despite me suggesting money was no object [it is but I needed the carpet fitting!] So fast forward to now, 11 months later – we’ve completely finished our full house re-furb and still have 3 rolls of carpet taking up our whole living room – we called Carpet Right and said look we can’t get anyone to fit this it’s ridiculous. The lady on the phone said that they would fit any carpet that they sold and based on the sizes we gave her and the fact some was for the stair it would be around £180ish but that she could recommend some guys who used to be their top fitters who had recently left the company to set up on their own and that they would possibly be cheaper. So we called the recommended fitters who came over and said they could do the job for a snip at £600ish inc the underlay – we agreed to this as it included things like seam-welded thresholds and whipped edges to the stairs. A date was agreed and 3 fitters turned up to template the room. After a couple of hours and the carpet all rolled out in the garden the guys came back to say the couldn’t fit it as the carpet is directional and therefore could only be laid down the stair one way. The problem being the only piece we had large enough in that direction to do the stairs was the biggest piece of carpet, which would have been needed for the bedroom. So we could either do the stairs and one bedroom or we could do both bedrooms and not the stairs. So the fitter called the manager of Carpet Right and explained the situation and they said here wasn’t anything they could do. I then went to the store and spoke with the assistant manger who said he couldn’t do anything and he’d speak with the manager who would be in the next day. Meantime the salesman who sold it to me came over and said he’d definitely offered me the measuring service which would have determine if it fitted or not and that they had offered us fitting and we’d refused – this simply isn’t true. The assistant manager promised that someone would call me back the next day…that was 2 weeks ago. Since that 2 weeks passed the carpet fitter won’t take our calls or messages [we were calling to see if he could turn the carpet into rugs so we could salvage the situation]. As the manager hasn’t returned my calls my wife just called the store. She was firstly told that it was our fault and that there was no proof that we’d shown them a measured survey drawing. The also said they don’t offer fitting on that carpet and said that when we recently called they wouldn’t have suggested they do. They also said the carpet fitter that we were recommended still worked for them and A) shouldn’t have been moonlighting and B) wouldn’t have been recommended by them. He told us to call some fitter’s form the yellow pages, as they wouldn’t be willing to do anything. Nothing ruffles my wife’s feathers but to say she’s upset with the abrupt manner he spoke to her even though she wasn’t phoning to compelling just for some advice on how we can fit it is an understatement. So I’m not sure if we can do anything – any suggestions? I either what the carpet fitting in some form or another or a refund as we very clearly showed a drawing of what we needed and were very clearly told that it would be suitable!

They have said they have no CCA following a previous request, nor does the OC. J

I appreciate that but if Westcot have revived a SAR and have just claimed it's nothing to do with them when evidently it is (or has been) seems like a cop out. It's like me putting a CCJ on someone and then saying actually you to ask someone else to for our paperwork... ...so in your opinion Brig should I just apply for it to be set-a-side? If is what are my reasons - it's not my debt, it was potentially Statute Barred according to a letter from Westcot claiming they bought it in 2005 and they served it to an old address without prior communication? J

...got a letter from Arrow today saying that they've been passed my SAR request from Westcot and I need to remake out the cheque to them as they are now data controllers for this account - I'm slightly perplexed because data controllers or otherwise, Westcot have placed the CCJ againts me not Arrow and I send a SAR to Westcot to see what information they held on me - I appreciate that it seems Arrow are also in on this but thats not what I've asked for...anyone else agree that Westcot should honour my SAR and tell me what they have on me...afterall they mush have something inc. copies of recent correspondence! J

So I sent a SAR to Westcot 14 days ago and had the following response today – and it stinks [see below]. The are basically saying they don’t have to give me anything, they’ve said it all lies with Arrow Global as Arrow are both the Client and Data Controller, however this CCJ was placed by Westcot and is still in their name – can someone please advise of my next move cause I’m sick of them stamping CCJ on my Call Credit file and yet claiming they aren’t processing the data. If Westcot are not teh data controllers and they are not the 'client' then why the hell are they processing a CCJ every month! Letter: I refer to your letter dated 17th October 2013, regarded a Subject Access Request. Westcot Credit Services administer your data on behalf of our client, Arrow Global, and therefore we are data processor. This means we deal with your data within the expected administration of the account only. However our client is the data controller and the overall responsibility for your data remains with them. All SARs are the responsibility of the data controllers therefore your request has been forwarded to Arrow Global who will contact you in due course. To supply the data there is an administration fee of £10.00. I have forwarded your cheque to our client; however they may request it to be amended and returned to them. Once the payment is received by our client, they have 40 days to respond to your request. Should you have any questions relating o the subject access request, you will need to contact our client directly, and they can be reached on 0800 130 0169. Please note that this account remains placed with Westcot, therefore any applicable payment arrangements need to be adhered to whilst this request is being processed or alternatively for all other issues please contact us directly. Yours truly, Ben Sherwood.

Just checked my brothers T-Mobile contract [albeit he took it out via Phones4u] and it says in the T&C : "Unless we have specifically agreed to sell you a phone or laptop on a standalone basis we only agree to sell or supply a phone, USB modem or laptop (as appropriate) to you on the basis that you enter into an airtime agreement to connect the phone or USB modem we supply to an airtime provider for the specified minimum period on the particular network and tariff that is associated with the phone or USB modem. If there is a connection fee and/or a delivery charge, you must also pay that. The reason we insist on this is because mobile phones, USB modems and laptops can have a significant cost to us and we can only sell or supply a phone, USB modem or laptop either free or for a price far below what the item is worth (depending on the model or offer) if you also enter into such an airtime agreement. Your contract for airtime is not with us but is with a separate airtime provide. If we deliver a phone USB modem or laptop (as appropriate) to you (other than on a standalone basis) and you do not enter into the associated airtime agreement or you cancel your agreement AND do not return the phone USB modem or laptop (as appropriate) to us (or where permitted under paragraph 10 do not enable us to collect it) we will charge you the retail price of the items delivered to you. Our price list is on available on request. The goods we deliver to you become your responsibility once they are delivered to you." I'm on o2 and I have a similarly worded section, as does my flat mate on Vodafone - its quite clear that even if you cancel the agreement you must return the phone.

Completely agree with that but it's usually tied up with a clause called something like an 'hardware agreement' that states they give you hard ware on condition of you maintaining a contract with them for a minimum period of time and if you don't adhere to this then you must return the hardware - which in this case the OP hasn't done. It's really hard to constructively comment without having a copy of the OPs contract - specifically the clause which he feels they breached which lead to his right to terminate early. J

Well I've popped a SAR to Westcot in the post today as they did state in their last correspondence that they had the correct information for a CCJ and the address it was served at was the last known – the letter [see post #60] - I'd be interested to see what they have that makes them so sure. They also suggest in that letter that as I never received it I should I apply for it to be set aside and when they receive the paperwork they will ask their client Arrow for a final decision on the matter. My thoughts are get the SAR results, then immediately apply for the judgment to be set aside and see what happens unless anyone thinks I should just go in for asset aside without waiting 40 days?

Nope - CCJ awarded in Oct 11 and I moved out in Sept 11 - no communication from Shop Direct or Westcot prior to this and nothing forwarded by ex-landlord who sent me other things. J

Right it think its time to bring this back to life as I’ve pretty much hit a brick wall with Shop Direct and Westcot. To summarise the last year: • A CCJ appeared on my call credit file late in 2011 and was filed by Westcot at an old address • Loads of chasing later I pinned it down to an alleged Littlewoods catalogue • SAR to Shop direct [who owned Littlewoods] • SAR was very incomplete, showed almost no information • after some various letters we established that the last payment was in March 2006 and the CCJ was Oct 2011 so 5.5years between payments • Westcot say the CCJ is valid and that they’ve now sold it to Arrow. So here we are, Shop Direct said they have no more information, Wescot shrug it off and say Arrow now own it [the only letter I’ve had from Arrow is listed in post #48 but it doesn’t tell me anything] – the CCJ is registered in Wescots name. I don’t think this account was ever really mine as I’ve racked my brains and been over all my old paper work and the only catalogue I’ve ever had was an Argos account which was paid off and closed – I’ve got a recent letter from Westcot stating they bought the debt in 2005, and a letter from Shop Direct referring to it as a ‘Very’ account [odd as Very didn’t exist back then] that says they didn’t sell the account until 2007 [they claim the last payment was made in 2006]. – irrespective of who the debt belongs too [me or another person], if Shop Direct are correct, the debt wasn’t statute barred as it was 5.5yrs between payments and CCJ; if Westcot are correct then it was Statute barred for sure as I’m positive that I never paid Westcot and there was 6.5yrs between them acquiring the alleged debt and the CCJ. I’m concerned that there’s a lot of conflicting information, no evidence to suggest that I ever actually owned this account [no agreement, missing information and statements etc]. I’m also aware that a lot of time has passed since this CCJ which could cause problems when applying to have it set aside - it was a year before I found out about it and it’s taken a year to get this far. I think there is 2 routes to this: 1 apply for it to be set aside now and hope for the best, or 2 [which I’m very tempted by] issue a SAR to Westcot as if they say they owned the debt from 2005 and I know I’ve never paid them a penny the debt was Statue Barred irrespective of what the Shop Direct SAR returned – a SAR would allow me to see any payments they claim to have received – is Statute Barred is an absolute defence for setting aside a CCJ? I’d just be more comfortable having the absolute maximum information to hand should I have to go to court for this. J

I don't feel like we're getting the big picture here - what did they actually do to breach the contract that meant you had a right to terminate without repercussions - you say they restricted your phone but that sounds lose to me - what does the clause say and what happened? Also, rip-off or other wise the contract must have said there was a charge for non-direct debit payments, by withholding that sum from your payments logic would say you were in breech first? off the back of that you may have canceled everything but the fact is you will still owe them the manual payment fees that you refused to pay earlier so to that logic they have every right to mark a late payment as you're not paying them, contract terminated or otherwise. Also RE: the phone cost not being part of your monthly line rental - I disagree - I know o2 offer a tariff independent of the phone so you can upgrade when it suits you - the purpose of this is obvious, it's also very transparent. ..have you wondered why the line rental charges for these contracts are a fraction of the ones that include the phones as 1 monthly payment? If you have a standard tariff the cost of your handset becomes part of the line rental - its not like t-mobile just give out £500 handsets for free, this is also why 12 month contracts are cheaper than 24 month tariffs - the uplift in cost covers the handset spread over a 1 or 2 year period. Obviously I'm suggesting this is normally the case in my experience, if your contract makes no reference to the handset and they have breached something then please disregard my comments. I'd be interested to see how this all pans out. Are you in the process of taking them to court?

Trouble is free phones aren't usually free - you're just spreading the cost across your contract period - as you didn't finish that period (for what ever reason) you'd surely still owe them for the phone? You say you've terminated in accordance with their T&Cs - I don't think I've ever seen any terms that say I can cancel because I don't like the admin fee they charge for processing none automated payments - that's surely also in the T&Cs so how could you just stop paying that portion of the monthly bill?

Hi - Did you get anywhere with this? Did you return the phone when you terminated the contract or was it sim only? And I'm not one to play devils advocate but I thought their T&Cs usually state they charge an admin fee if you don't pay by DD (or is your case more complex?). J

quick one - should I send this request to the CEO executive complaints team that finally gave me some results or should I fire this to the data controller?

OK I'll get something written up and in the post this week - is there something 'official' to look up / quote when making this claim...I.e some code of conduct that sets out some guidelines on what can be claimed. J

Thanks Brig, So to your mind it’s potentially: 2x £750 refused credit with t-mobile and AMEX [£1500] 1x £240 extra cost from having to stay with my mobile phone supplier 1x £1900 extra interest from my personal loan 1x £800 extra interest from my credit card 1x £1500 for time, effort, postage and research to fight my corner. So £5940 would be considered a ‘fair’ figure for compensation or have I misinterpreted somewhere? Also how do I go about wording something like this – I assume it has to be to the point, well backed up with evidence and written with the view that if they won’t play ball I should take them to the small claims court? J

Did you have any thoughts on this Brig? J

Hi Brig, Sorry for the delay it’s taken me a couple of days to dig out the information; a summary of the accounts is as follows: Negative data [late payment markers] started to appear on Account 1 in May 2011 as follows: May 2011 - 2 late payments [LPs] Jun 2011 - 3 LPs Jul 2011 – 4 LPs Aug 2011 - 5 LPs Sept 2011 - Default £718. The default remained for 2 years until September 2013 when Santander wiped all the data back to September 2011 and removed all the late payment markers before this and leaving no trace of a default on my credit file. Negative data started to appeared on account 2 in June 2011 as follows: Jun 2011 - 3 LPs Jul 2011- 4 LPs Aug 2011- 5 LPs Sep 2011 - 6 LPs Oct 2011 - Default for £1800 The default remained for about 2 years until May 2013 when Santander admitted they shouldn’t have given me the account in the first place – they wiped the account completely as if it never existed and it no longer shows on my credit files. Between Sept 2011 and Sept 2013 the accounts status was also listed as gone-away even though I was in full written contact with Santander for over a year. I received the following ‘goodwill’ from Santander: Account 1 - £100 cheque to say sorry for the terrible switching experience and here’s the £100 incentive you joined for originally. Account 2 - £150 cheque to say sorry they shouldn’t have given me the account in the first place. Plus a £60 for not responding in a timely manner [several months]. I believe the financial actual repercussions of the above are as follows: In October 2012 I was refused a mobile phone contract with t-mobile based the results on my credit search [this was when I first applied for my files to see what the problem was as to all intents and purposes it should have been clean] – I had to stay with o2 who were £10 per month more expensive, so over 24 months it will cost me around an extra £240. In Feb 2013 I applied for a loan with my long term bank [i wish I’d never considered leaving as they’ve always been brilliant – the things we do for a quick buck!] this was when they said they couldn’t offer me the low rate they have in the past as the credit score was coming back lower than normal – the only blemish was the 2 Santander accounts – this loan is for 42 months so based on the £9600 I borrowed over 42months I’m looking at around £1900 in ‘additional’ interest over their best rate. In May 2013 I applied for an AMEX card with a 0% transfer incentive, this was declined, again due to credit score and Santander was the only blemish I had so I have to believe it was a large influence on their decision. This means I still had 3k on my credit card at 18.9% apr so at the rate I’m clearing it that’s approx. £800 extra interest. I’m not someone that exclusively lives on credit, I have a good income and I’ve worked really hard to get a good credit score – I chose to ‘spread’ payments on a few select things, unfortunately Santander have left me with 3 long term problems which are ultimately going to cost me around 3k in additional interest over the best deals which I can only assume I would have been a prime candidate for. I’m not sure on what redress they are likely to consider appropriate, but the fact is I feel as if I’m out of pocket by 3k – what are peoples thoughts? J

Hi Brig, Satan agreed to remove all adverse data - I assumed this would mean wiping the account all together but they have actually done just that - removed all the negative data so it looks like I had the account for a year with no late payments, no overdraft no default and then closed it - its now marked as settled, there are no LP markers and no whiff of the default - this is reflected on Call Credit and Equifax, the account never showed on Experian in the first place. If you could draft a little something I'd be really grateful for the help. J

I've sent Brig a message so we'll see if he gets 5 mins to take a look...Obviously I'd love some compensation as to say this has been a stressful and costly problem would be an understatement! J

No compensation at the end, I had a couple of small payments in the middle as apologies for their short falls in communication etc as follows: £100 for account 1 as this was a joining incentive which they initially diddled me out of [although I don't consider that compo] £150 for account 2 to say really sorry we messed up before they closed it and removed it from my file [again, this was technically an account that they already signed off so doesn't count towards this] £60 for not replying to my complaints in a timely manner. I was refused a mobile phone contract when I wanted to change accounts as well as a credit card with a zero % rate, both due to my credit file a nd as this was the only blemish on the files they referred to I have to assume it was Santander that were causing it. the other item was a loan from my bank for a car purchase, I've got a 9k loan at 14% instead of the advertised 5.1% which I'd had on 2 previous loans - the bank couldn't explain why as I'm a 'perfect' candidate for their lowest rate however the computer generated results from my credit file was suggesting i was a higher than average risk.

Well last week I did finally receive the letter from the CEO complaints office to confirm they were very sorry about everything I’d been through and that the balance would be cleared and their data controller had been contacted to remove the adverse data from my account. I’ve been keeping a close eye on my credit file and yesterday I got an email from Equifax saying there had been a change to my credit file – I’ve just had a look and the change is: ‘you’re Santander current account status has changed from ‘D’ (Defaulted) to ‘S’ (Settled). I assumed what they would do would be to remove all evidence of the account existing but what they have done is to change the status, update my address and remove every ‘late’ marker off the history suggesting that it was paid off in full and closed in 2011. Whilst I’m not really sure this is a ‘true reflection’ of my account I’m happy with the result as there is no trace of a default on the account anymore. Thanks everyone for all your help, this thread can now be changed to ‘Won’, but before I go, does anyone think it’s still worth me writing to the Financial Ombudsman to tell them what I’ve been through? Just because I got the right result in the end doesn't mean that Santander have operated in a professionally adequate manner, they destroyed my credit file for over a year, I think that the relevant bodies should be made aware of it. J

WOOHOO! I’ve just had a call from the executive complaints office at Santander and they have been through the ‘entire’ case and concluded that they are at fault – they have now paid off the balance to zero and they have contacted their data controller to remove all adverse history from my credit record – needless to say I’m over the moon with this, it’s been a 12 month slog but I couldn't have done it without CAG. The letter confirming all is going in tonight’s post but assuming it arrives early next week I think this thread can finally be updated to say *won*

I emailed the CEO last week and got this response in a matter of hours...wonder how long it will take them to throw it out again... I do hope they can see my side on this occasion. Thank you for your email addressed to Ana Botin, Chief Executive Officer, and for taking the time to bring your concerns to our attention. One of our Executive Complaints Team will be responsible for carrying out an independent review of your complaint in the hope that we can reach an acceptable outcome. Once our review is complete we will provide you with the details of our investigation and the proposed outcome. If you remain unhappy and do not feel we have resolved your complaint to your satisfaction you are entitled to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service as detailed in the attached leaflet. Until our investigation is complete, I do not know what the outcome will be. I do hope however, that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with. Thank you & kind regards Denise Moran Executive Complaints Team

Just a quick update - I've just posted our letter of complaint and requested compensation but having looked at the European Commissions list of extraordinary circumstances I'd say we wont see a penny: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/passengers/air/doc/neb-extraordinary-circumstances-list.pdf I think closure of Heathrow will be item 15. and an oil leak at City Airport will be item 26. I'll keep you posted. J