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Verso owner

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  1. What is the lba please? I clicked on the link but there is no explanation of this abbreviation there? I'm not sure if you have understood our problem - the car was bought from a small dealer who have done the stitching up, the Toyota garage just carried out the diagnosis of the problem and are not involved with the sale of the car or the refund.
  2. Yes, you did but I wanted to wait until we got the official reports as there was a point where I began to doubt myself, asking myself could we have accidentally damaged the MMT system after all? The dealer now has both reports and so there will be no protracted exchanges after tomorrow because if the dealer does not do the BACS transfer refund then, then we will start the court procedure.
  3. Thank you Chuffnut, King12345 and BankFodder for your latest comments. The latest twist is that the dealer is saying that he will not accept the independent engineer's report because (a) I chose the independent engineer not them, and (b) the conclusion supports my case! I chose the engineer completely at random from the IAEA website, just someone who is geographically close to the dealer and to the Toyota garage and with whom I have absolutely no connection. An echo of that now infamous quotation "he would say that wouldn't he"! The irony is I wanted to have an independent report because I felt that the dealer (and possibly a judge) could argue that a report from the Toyota garage alone was indeed a case of "they would say that wouldn't they" because it would be in their interest to identify a long list of faults so as to maximise the amount they would earn from repairing the car! The ingenuity of the dealer knows no end. They are sticking to their mantra that we damaged the car because we are not experienced in using the Toyota MMT system. I can see this going to court now if they do not refund. In a way it may be the best outcome, as we would be able to add on all the additional costs that this fiasco has cost us. My dilemma is what to do about the car itself. My friend is the legal owner and it is insured in his name, yet it will be sitting in the dealers compound until the matter is sorted. Does anyone have any comments to make about this?
  4. Chuffnut - what do you think a judge would make of my issue then, based on your foregoing discussions about vehicle age/mileage/cost? 13 year old Toyota car (06 reg), low mileage (48K), one owner, FSH, apparently in excellent condition, cost = £4K. Faulty auto gearbox - a fault which showed up after about 6 hours of driving. Would a "reasonable person" think that wasn't satisfactory quality?
  5. What Chuffnut is saying seems reasonable. I cannot imagine any judge upholding a consumer's right to return a car because of a minor fault. If that had been the case with me I would have happily accepted a repair by the dealer as the most of the car is in A1 condition but a major fault (subsequently discovered to be inherent in the design of the semiautomatic transmission system) in the auto gearbox is quite a different ball game!
  6. Yes, I would feel a bit uneasy about "rocking the boat" as you say, although it is quite a bitter pill to swallow. I guess we have learnt a lot from this experience! What I have done is to include a list of all the expenses we have incurred in my latest letter to the dealer so they are aware, but I haven't specifically said that we might try to reclaim these. It could deter them from getting awkward at the last minute and opting for the small claims court option.
  7. Just a quick update as to where we are at (if there is anyone out there who is still interested of course!). The car has been tested by the Toyota garage and their computer has found an error code which indicates that there is a fault with the clutch actuator system. Unfortunately it is not possible for the software to say when the fault occurred but both the Toyota service guys and the independent automotive engineer have stated that it is highly improbable that the fault occurred within the first 6 hours we had the car. The cost to repair would be around £2400. The dealer has agreed to refund us the money we paid for the car provided we supply a copy of the independent engineer's written report, which is not unreasonable of course. We should get that report middle of next week. In some ways it might have been better that the whole business went to court as we would almost certainly have won the case and been able to claim back the huge amount of additional expense that this matter has caused us. (Must be of the order of £600+ by now).
  8. Yes apart from the gearbox issue the car seems to be in excellent condition. It's just that having now become aware of the history of this particular Toyota model with the semiautomatic gearbox I would not be confident to drive it as it would always be in the back of my mind that the same problem could arise at any moment. A bit daunting when doing 70mph on the motorway! There is only a one year warranty on the new parts fitted by the official Toyota garage and I have read of instances where people have had the necessary work done (at about £2K), only for the same problem to arise again! It is indeed possible that the dealer did check the car before selling it on and did not pick up the problem. We certainly didn't during the short test run. However that does not prevent us rejecting the car within the 30 days (remembering that the fault appeared after only about 6 hours of driving in total!).
  9. Gentlemen - I seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest here! Can I say that the advice I got from the Consumer helpline concours with that of Buyer Beware i.e. in the first 30 days the onus of proof is on me. I'm on to it, make no mistake! The car goes to the Toyota garage on Tuesday for their assessment and will also be examined by an independent automomotive engineer who is registered with the IAEA. If it has to go to court so be it. If I win then all the costs I have incurred will be claimed back. I should have added that I am aware of the risks but the independent expert is confident that we have a case. The main fault (gearbox automatically shifts into neutral and no further selection of a gear is possible unless engine stopped and restarted) appeared after a total of about only 6 hours of driving. What is the greater probability - extremely unlucky or there was an existing intermittent fault?
  10. OK, hope you're right! I wouldn't say that the Consumer helpline is any old "helpline" though - they are the definitive mouthpiece of Trading Standards surely, but aimed at Joe Public like me rather than companies or corporations.
  11. Just came across this thread on the forum: Now I am totally confused!! Back to the Consumer Standards helpline in the morning methinks - can't afford to get this wrong. Is it possible, in my case, that the dealer genuinely did not discover any transmission fault with my car simply because it's an intermittent thing and a short test run (like the one I did pre-purchase) does not show up the problem? This still doesn't affect my rights under the CRA but just wondering if this could be a legitimate defence for him? I am loath to reveal the dealer at this stage until I get a definitive answer from either the Toyota garage and/or an independent motor engineer. Suppose the verdict is that (somehow!!!!) we have indeed damaged the transmission in less than 6 hours of driving, and I have been slagging off the dealer in the interim? I am convinced that we have not done any damage of course but it's only fair that we keep an open mind surely, even if the dealer is not?
  12. No I am not. Is it wise/relevant to put these details on a public forum at this stage? The questions I have raised are "generic" and would apply to any second hand car dealer I'd have thought.
  13. Bankfodder – thank you for your rapid reply. Yes, I agree with you, it was against my better judgement that we travelled such a long way to get that car. However in our defence we have been scouring lots of websites for many weeks for a decent 7 seater automatic (petrol). Believe it or not they are pretty scarce! We are controlled by the price our friend can afford to pay (approx £4000 – repayments of £100 p.m.), hence this usually dictates the kind of car we could get – usually a very high mileage diesel which we did not want. When the Verso came up it seemed like a good opportunity. Re: Consumer Protection Act: yes, I wrote to the dealer on the 28th March to tell them that I was rejecting the car in accordance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and that I wanted a refund. I didn’t mention anything about additional expenses because I didn’t know I could include these. By the time this business is over, these will be considerable I think. Re: your comment “I wouldn't mince around. Don't get into any protracted conversations about getting it tested or discussing whether or not you damage the clutch”. Do you advise then that I should cancel the diagnostic test at the Toyota garage? I just felt we needed some independent technical expertise as we are not car mechanics! Maybe this could go ahead in parallel? I am paying for it out of my own money anyway as there is no chance that the dealer will do this. Re: Letter of Claim. Is there a template for this? I followed your link but all I can see is a POC. Thanks. Jeff P.S. I meant to ask, would the fact that we didn't research the car before we bought it affect our claim? Four of us went to see the car before we bought it and all agreed it seemed to be in really good condition so we had no reason to suspect any problem.
  14. I recently bought an 06 Toyota Verso semiautomatic 7 seater car from a second hand car dealer for £4000. I bought it for a friend who does not have much money - we are providing him with an interest free loan. It was advertised on the Internet (Motors UK) and the dealer is about 195 miles from where I live. From the description the car was excellent i.e. low mileage (47,000 miles), one lady owner, FSH, very good condition, new MOT, just serviced. I checked the MOT history on the gov.uk website and it had an excellent history and the annual mileages confirmed that the 47,000 mileage figure was accurate. I travelled to the dealer on the 18th March, had a test drive and bought the car. I drove it home and parked it on my drive until Sunday 24th March as I had only insured it for the one day. This allowed time for my friend to arrange insurance for himself. He had a 30 mile drive in it that day and when he was nearly back home he texted me to say there was a problem with the car. He was using it in automatic mode and it suddenly flipped into neutral when standing at traffic lights in town. It was not possible to select any gear and the only remedy was to switch off the engine, wait for a minute or so and restart. The same thing has happened to me when I drove it back to the dealer (see below). In fact the car stopped on a busy main road at traffic lights about a mile from the dealer, causing significant disruption. The common factors seem to be that the engine has to be thoroughly warmed up and stop-start traffic is encountered, hence this was not detected during the test run nor during the 195 mile drive home which is virtually all motorway/dual carriageway with no hold ups as it was evening time. To cut the rest of the story very short, I have "rejected" the car as we were well within the 30 day period and the car has been back at the dealers since 1st April. The dealer says that we must have damaged the clutch in the time we had it (his local garage has told him this) and will not do anything as the clutch is not covered by the warranty. I am not a technical person but I fail to see how a driver can damage the clutch when driving in automatic mode? However, before I returned the car I had it taken for a test run by our local Toyota garage and they confirmed that there is a problem with the transmission but were unable to specify exactly where without dismantling the transmission. The car has no problem going up hills so I am doubtful about the clutch being faulty. I have now booked the car in for a full diagnostic check with the Toyota garage that is very near the car dealers location as otherwise we were in a stalemate situation with the dealer doing nothing. This issue has prompted me to do some research and I have since discovered that there have been problems with this Toyota semi-automatic gearbox and the symptoms we are experiencing are exactly as those described on various Internet forums. Hence my increasing cynicism that the dealer is using the clutch argument so as to wash his hands of it, as the fault could be down to several reasons, some very expensive to fix! I can see this having to go to the Small Claims Court. In over 50 years of motoring in many different, mainly secondhand cars, I have never been in such a situation before so this is all new and very stressful (and time consuming/expensive) for me. Do you think we have a reasonable chance of getting our money back this way? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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