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Everything posted by Mottymotto1

  1. Is there a way me and Anidog1 can keep communicating through this site once without the "hijacking" of a thread? Thanks
  2. Hi, ive never physically gone back to the showroom (so sooooooo tempted to though) as I think this would harm court action and to be absolutely honest, the anger, frustration, problems and stress I have gone through over this issue I really don't think I could control myself, plus I live about 3.5-4 hours away by public transport. I would however love to picket outside especially on their busiest day, Saturday, deterring people from the business. I have a question though. I have never received the V5 so I don't even know if I am technically the owner of the vehicle!! As the car broke down on the day of purchase, Im guessing they didn't even send the paperwork. Does anyone know if this changes anything? Do I need to contact DVLA to see if I am the registered owner? Baring in mind I have rejected the vehicle??!?!
  3. Funny you mention this about the quality of the vehicle i.e. having numerous faults and making up a vehicle on the cheap as I was having this conversation with someone earlier. I believe they may be sourcing vehicles with good looking bodies but shot to pieces underneath, then buying some cheap parts to get them running before selling them off as something they are not at a massive profit
  4. Wow, just looked through those reports and the way I see it is that this example is more than just selling a car not as good as advertised, but his is actually dangerous to the vehicle user. I'm pretty sure this is totally illegal through Criminal Law! I guess his is something you may be able to look into through your firm! I had only used my car for about 60 miles before it died and that was with breaks in-between too and not 1 continuous journey, yet the car was diagnosed by the garage as having catastrophic engine failure - seized engine (also diagnosed by AA when they attended). They also told me the oil was low. When I picked the car up I had to go straight to the Jet petrol station as the fuel was below the empty line. (interestingly no fuel light come on and the BMW I bought had an electrical warning system for the oil which didn't come on either, so Im guessing there was more faults on the vehicle too. The only reason this hasn't been picked up in the report is because HWM were authorising the work, and refused to continue with it after finding out about the engine. Should a full report had been done (not required now) I wonder what else would have been found. Even though I had only done 60 miles, they have told me that I have to prove the fault was already there and not entitled to a refund irrelevant of garage report showing major failure!
  5. I too suspect the "complaints" team is based at the showroom address and I believe is actually the same people at the showroom using a different email address. The 2 guys I spoke to there were Adam and Alan (neither of which looked like their name), and companies house has the owner listed as a Hussain Ali (I think). There was another guy I see there but I didnt get his name. The complaints team or litigation team as I was told, told me that if I wanted a refund I would have to prove the fault was there at time of purchase, and provide a report proving it was there at time of purchase which of course is impossible. I confirmed the Consumer Rights Act regulations on this to them which actually states its up to the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at time of purchase as the law assumes up to 6 months from purchase that any major fault would have been there at time of purchase......I had the car about 4.5 hours! At this point I asked them to provide ME with the report they have proving the cars condition was as advertised and sold to me, proving the fault wasnt there at time of purchase. Funnily enough they never even responded or even acknowledged me.
  6. Hi King12345, I hope you are right, but im not sure if it covers all my other losses due to this issue such as travel costs, loss of insurance and tax due to cancelation etc.. As long as I get the full amount back for the car including deposit I can get another vehicle and chase the remaining £300 of costs through small claims court. I just need my money back so I can buy a car! Im meant to be going on a driving holiday for a long weekend with my family in a few weeks so time is ticking!!! Anidog1, looks like your doing better than I did already, as a complaints handler has given you their name (Peter)! I never got a name of complaints handler even when I asked for it! Adam is the guy at the showroom who I dealt with and is the person I have mentioned in all of my posts. Very nice at first, then he changed when I asked for a refund. He also told the garage that HE employed to pass the cost of the exploratory work plus vehicle holding costs (approx. £500) to me. He told me he would send me the warranty on 3 occasions but never did. He also lied to me and the garage about numerous things, and tried to make a "deal" with me that involved me losing around £1500 and got nasty when I said no way! He was also nasty to the garage staff as they told me he was I quote "A very slippery character and a nasty piece of work". Is that your review on Autotrader?? I have also added a review
  7. From my experience with them it doesn't seem to matter what evidence you have, they wont take any responsibility. If you want your money you will have to take them to court. Im sorry if that's not want you want to hear but its true. I have eb=verything in my favour, absolutely everything!! The law, the evidence, the reports of professionals, trading standards, procedural rule, everything! Yet they refuse to give me a refund, and when I asked them why? they wont even respond with an answer. Absolute **** bags. I made sure everything in writing, no phone calls. Every call that was made prior they denied what they had said, even to me as though I imagined it! They never answered a single question I asked, and wouldn't even follow through a complaint procedure. Im just waiting on response back from credit card regarding what they can refund and then will be opening my court claim for the rest! Im not going to let them get away with a penny! It seems this is there way of doing business and I guess they believe you will let things go, which I guess some people do.
  8. I’ve asked if they are a member of any scheme and met silence. Does anyone know if they continue to withhold my refund if this would be considered as theft? Also they keep going on to me about paying their garage bill and getting the car towed back to them before they agree to refund me. They told me and the garage that the warranty would cover the works that they authorised, but I requested a copy of the warranty 3 times before rejecting the vehicle, and they have never produced it. I’m wondering if they have lied to me and the garage if this would be considered as fraud. Both these acts are criminal and would face a higher court other than civil, and may lead to criminal prosecution. Just wonders if this is true?!
  9. no, I was at work but I cut him off quick as soon as he started trying to go through "details" with me, I just said that I will not discuss this verbally, and he will need to put it in writing to me. At that point he told me he was leaving it with the legal team, and I said in terminating the call then hung up.
  10. Yes I sent them this on 2nd March with a deadline of 16th March. ironically just got a call from the showroom saying that they will give me a refund (not the deposit of £300 or additional costs), if I arrange with the garage to get the car back to them (approximately £700-£800 bill). I told them that they employed the garage not me, so they must pay the bill (the garage have sent them a letter to this effect too). He was suggesting on the phone that I had employed the garage and I reminded him that I did not authorise any of the work, they did, and that this was their bill (the garage is also charging them a daily holding fee too). I told them it has gone too far now, and any info from them they must put in writing. His response was well I will leave that with the legal team then, so I replied I'm terminating the call now. I cant understand why he is calling me with this as he is just reiterating a point made in their last email which I refused to accept in my final reply.
  11. I have called the CC company who have confirmed receipt of my paperwork and evidence. They have told me this usually takes 4 weeks but can take up to 8 weeks for an answer. I guess I'm expecting them to reject it, so will take them to court too if I have to (fed up with being fobbed off by responsible persons so gloves are off now). I have spoken to Citizens advice who have advised me to go ahead with the small claim as well as the s75 so I have the forms which I have completed I just need to get my statement typed up, then I will be submitting the claim. I do know someone in the legal profession who has advised me to write another "final letter" to the showroom with an extension of 2 more weeks to refund, but I feel this is playing into their hands as they appear to be trying to drag things out anyway, so not sure I will do this. Thanks for all the info guys, I will be sure to update on here as things happen so that any other poor unfortunate souls who may be experiencing a similar issue may find the updates useful.
  12. I have sent the cc the s75 claim form a few days back, but worried as I thought it was 100% guaranteed protection if within the criteria.
  13. The main bulk i mentioned was the £300 deposit and £3794 remaining balance. I have also asked them for the additional costs I incurred due to this which totals about £150 (insurance cancellation cost, transportation, etc...) - I dont really care about this but the way they are being I want every penny back! The receipts I have from them the are card receipts from the POS machine which show Hartley Wintney Motors ltd, but the "self made" A4 receipt they printed out shows Hartley Wintney Motors UK. I didnt realise the CC could refuse the s75, I thought this was financial protection governed by law and regulated though the Financial Ombudsman. Everything Ive read on this says that they must honour it (within the set guidelines), and comparing my case to the guidelines I meet the criteria on each point. Im worried now as if they can get out of it im sure they probably will !!! Actually thinking of it, I spoke to the trading standards team at citizens advice who told me I AM covered under s75. One thing I cant seem to find out is guidance on timescales, although one site said I should report to financial ombudsman if process exceeds 8 weeks. Anyone have any clarification on this? Thanks
  14. Ive sent the documentation for s75 too, but this can take a while (and be declined?!?) so I'm chasing this method as well, just in case. Plus there are additional costs I have incurred directly due to this so even if/when I get my main bulk owed back through s75, I will still need to go to small claims to claim the additional costs which have been included with my correspondence to them.
  15. This is the response I sent to HW Motors: Response to your email dated 14 March 2019, 14:47 (your comments are highlighted in blue) 1. We understand that you can become angry when you feel that matters about which you feel strongly are not being dealt with as you wish. If that anger escalates into aggression towards us, we consider that unacceptable. Any aggression or abuse directed towards us will not be tolerated. Aggressive or abusive behaviour includes derogatory remarks and rudeness. If you carry on your rudeness, we will not communicate with you. I receive this point and lack of information as your refusal to respond to any/all of my questions that I have asked or points referred to in previous correspondence, in order to resolve this dispute. 2. We have not received Wiltons of Shanklin ltd report. We requested you to email it. We will not contact anyone directly. You employed Wiltons to conduct any works completed on the vehicle, and I am not employed by you to conduct your administration. If you require anything relating to your undertakings with a third party or any company/persons employed by you, then it is up to you to obtain this. 3. If you arrange to return your vehicle to our forecourt for an inspection and we agree that this give you rights of rejection under CRA, we shall refund £3,794.00 only. If you wish to conduct further checks on the vehicle then that is up to you. I have rejected the vehicle (serious fault) so it is no longer my responsibility. I am not your employee, should you wish to undertake any actions with your property and/or a third party you have employed and instructed, then that is up to you to arrange. The vehicle is held by the garage which you employed to conduct the work so you need to make these arrangements with them. Also the figure you mention is of £3794.00 does not suffice to resolve the dispute. 4. You are free to take this matter to the court. We will ensure to inform the court in our Directions Questionnaire that we cannot attend the hearing until December 2019. Neither you or I can make the decision on a hearing date. This is for the Deputy/District Judge to decide within their directions. The Judge will determine if either party has good enough reason to avoid dates given. The Court will wish to resolve the case a timely manner and within the Court guidance rules. Summary I do not wish to conduct “letter tennis” with you. I have made my position very clear with yourselves in relation to my expectations, requests and timeframes, and have worked with you to get a full and fair conclusion to this matter, yet you refuse to respond accordingly. Therefore, I will no longer be responding to any correspondence from you which does not relate to you making sure my full refund, as detailed previously, is received by me by 4pm 16th March 2019, as you have everything you need from me to date in order for you to resolve this issue, should this be a genuine concern of yours
  16. Could the CC decline the s75? I thought that it was part of financial law. I couldn't imagine this case would be declined by them, but then I'm not sure on what grounds an s75 could be declined (apart from the obvious like going over the 120 days or lying for example)
  17. Also, relating to point 3, I forgot to mention that Wiltons garage, as from today have told Hartley Wintney motors that they are charging them a holding fee until the works payment is made and THEY arrange collection of the vehicle.
  18. Received this email from them today: Without prejudice We understand that you can become angry when you feel that matters about which you feel strongly are not being dealt with as you wish. If that anger escalates into aggression towards us, we consider that unacceptable. Any aggression or abuse directed towards us will not be tolerated. Aggressive or abusive behaviour includes derogatory remarks and rudeness. If you carry on your rudeness, we will not communicate with you. We have not received Wiltons of Shanklin ltd report. We requested you to email it. We will not contact anyone directly. If you arrange to return your vehicle to our forecourt for an inspection and we agree that this give you rights of rejection under CRA, we shall refund £3,794.00 only. You are free to take this matter to the court. We will ensure to inform the court in our Directions Questionnaire that we cannot attend the hearing until December 2019. Point 1 is because the responses they have been giving me have contained completely false info so I said to them that I thought I had been dealing with a professional complaints team as their responses were devoid of understanding of the legal matter and naive. (maybe true but anger is getting the better of me while they have my money and no car, and they are refusing to answer any questions I ask, but at no point have I been remotely aggressive other than to tell them I will take them to Court if they do not refund me, and quote consumer rights act to them). Point 2 I just don't get. The garage has sent them the report they said they needed. It seems to me that they are trying to involve me in the "works" side of matters and I'm concerned if I do this it will put me on a back foot somehow. Also I don't believe I have to if the garage has sent it to them (also if this is their policy for complaint, then surely they should be telling me the complaint policy so I can follow it should I be required). Point 3 they know is not possible. The garage have told them they will not release the vehicle until THEY pay the money owed for the exploratory work as THEY authorised the work to be done. Also I have rejected the vehicle, so not sure why this point is made (Also I live on the Isle of Wight and they have been quoted £400 to tow it back to them). Also the money stated does not represent the £300 deposit paid and additional costs incurred directly due to this matter Point 4 is just ridiculous and is not a reasonable time frame. Im sure these matters can also be dealt with via paper so that neither party attends should it reach a hearing (unless the Judge gives directions to say otherwise) They have not answered any of my questions i.e to have a final response (stating a reason as to why they will not refund if that is the decision), to inform me of their complaints procedure so that I can be clear and make sure both parties follow it, my offer to them to go through court mediation etc..... Now Im not sure if i should reply to them or just open the claim. Personally im accepting this response as silence in respect to ADR, a final response, and refusal to take me through the complaints procedure. Please guys, if you have any idea of what direction I need to go now it would be much appreciated as I need to act fast on this (p.s. I have sent the paperwork for the £3794 to cc provider and £300 to dd card provider in respect to the deposit for charge back, but have since been told this can take up to 90 days). Sorry for the long message but Im incensed right now!
  19. Looking at the N180 DQ small claims track document, it appears that the claim is opened through the small claims court initially, and then the opportunity is offered for mediation through HMCTS (free service) prior to a hearing listing. Only if mediation fails would a hearing be required. Although it does not state if this would be a hearing in person, or if a paper hearing can be requested (of course a Deputy/ District Judge can make a ruling for a hearing should they see fit following the application referral to the judge following mediation failure).
  20. I am not using the Ombudsman as yet as I have instructed them to provide me with a final response to my complaint prior to using at dispute resolution. I have told them I still want a resolution by the date previously given them, and if mediation is required that I suggest using the Court mediation service (I then quoted from citizens advice website (A party’s silence in response to an invitation to participate or a refusal to participate in ADR might be considered unreasonable by the Court and could lead to the Court ordering that party to pay additional court costs). I have sent the paperwork to the cc provider today recorded mail so hopefully this will help a timely resolve. However there was no section on the form where I could state timescales to them. I have looked on the website of the cc provided to see if there is an idea of timescales, but none provided that I could see. Other sources have told me usually 30 days.
  21. TBH I have been quite direct with them, and told them I will take them to court if the refund is not given under the 30 day right to reject, but only after they become obstructive and refused my refund, prior to that I was very calm and polite. I paid £300 deposit and £3794 remaining cost (included £99 admin fee). I will request the report from the garage and forward to the showroom for my evidence should I need it. I don't think I will use the Motoring Ombudsman for ADR unless I absolutely have to. I am waiting for the paperwork from the debit card and credit card providers to I can start the chargeback process to gain the cost of the vehicle and see how long that takes. I have gained other additional costs due to this matter, and looks like I will be renting a vehicle for a couple of months now (or getting taxis) so that cost will need to be claimed through the court whatever happens. Again, thank you for all your advice and support, it really does help! I have had some real bad luck (particularly financially) over the past few months, so this situation was the last thing I needed...just about reaching the end of my tether so thank you for your help!
  22. Thanks for the responses I have looked at the motor ombudsman complaints process on the website and it says can take 90 days which to me seems like the showroom just trying to drag it out. But they have still not actually dealt with my complaint, answered my questions and given me a final response, now they don't want any communications with me?!? (weird how that now I've called them out, they don't want any more comms in writing with me). I don't even think the ADR is an option until the complaint has been given a final response, and I'm not willing to wait 90 days before making a claim. I don't have a report from the garage as I washed my hands with the vehicle, but I can request one. Does anyone know if I can just go ahead with my claim and Id rather do that if this is going to drag on? Thanks in advance for any responses
  23. I paid the deposit on my debit card and the final balance on credit card. I have contacted both and await paperwork for a chargeback but as far as I'm aware this is a lengthy process and doesn't cover additional cost. Looking at the receipts it shows as Hartley Wintney Motors Ltd. I have received an email moments ago from them in response to my last email asking them for information of why they are not adhering to the Consumer Rights Act, and responding to the points made to me from them stating I am not automatically entitled to a refund and I must prove the fault was on the vehicle etc...telling them I want the refund by a certain date (3 weeks after payment made), and have copied this email below (I'm not sure if what they are saying is true in regards to ADR and Court action): Dear Sir or Madam, Your comments are necessary and unhelpful. We do not seem to be any closer to reaching an agreement. We do not believe either party will benefit from further exchanges of communications. Please register your complaint with The Motor Ombudsman: https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complaint The Motor Ombudsman is a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) provider, is fully impartial and listens to both sides to deliver consistently fair outcomes. If you decide to continue with a court claim without any consideration to The Motor Ombudsman’s Alternative dispute resolution (ADR) decision, we reserve the right to a cost order against you. We refer you to the PRE-ACTION CONDUCT AND PROTOCOLS:11. If proceedings are issued, the parties may be required by the court to provide evidence that ADR has been considered. A party’s silence in response to an invitation to participate or a refusal to participate in ADR might be considered unreasonable by the court and could lead to the court ordering that party to pay additional court costs. Kind regards Hartley Wintney Motors U.K – Complaints Whitney Moor Farm Taplins Farm Lane Winchfield Hook Hampshire RG27 8SH
  24. Thanks for your help and honesty. I think I may need to go back to Citizens advice and ask about that.
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