Definitely a county court, Cambridge, and a court room and the Judge had the claimant in the box first and then me and questioned by the defence Barrister - or rather grilled. The judge would just not listen to our argument (which helped the Barrister) and said it all boiled down to terms and conditions and withholding invoice payments. The Barrister got his fees, along with court fees. The Judge though refused one of the court fees brought by the original solicitor as he said this was not the defendants fault. As I said, it felt as though the case was decided before we sat down.

So we lost the case. To be honest within 1 minute of sitting down in the courtroom, and the judge beginning I could tell we were going to lose. The Judge opened by saying, the Judge who read the initial papers and directed should not have allowed the strike out application and main trial to be all on one day - he would have done differently and had separately, he said the case probably wouldn’t have got to trial. He felt that it would take too long and asked if an adjournment was needed and we all said no. He said ok, let’s move to the main trial then.I think the Judge wanted over quickly. He also said this was a commercial agreement and would be looking at law in this area. He explained that at the end when judgement by him was confirmed, we could appeal but he would confirm if the appeal was allowed depending on what this was based upon. It already felt like I was on trial by both judge and claimants barrister... He then opened the claimants witness statement and skipped to point xx which was the claimant and there terms and conditions and said this was the relevant part to start. He told me my witness statement was irrelevant as the whole case would hinge on this by the claimant. When I tried to point out parts of my witness statement, I was asked by the Judge to not go any further, as we won't be talking about this. I was reminded of this when I tried to run through points of my witness statement. The claimant went into the box first and explained the ordering process and terms and conditions aided by their barrister. When I was able to ask questions, as to the agreement between there company and ours the claimant and barrister told me this agreement was only for a 30 day period - and I could see the Judge roll his eyes.....very professional. Next, I went into the box and as expected the barrister tried to discredit emails between us and the claimants representative. He also pointed out at the terms and conditions to say we were not allowed to withhold payment as there was no overcharging. The judge was researching terms and conditions on his laptop, and stated a couple of examples which I knew was against us – as I could see where this was going. The barrister was asking me for my yes or no on questions and I simply said no - I do not agree in your interpretation of what happened and agreements we did make. I asked the claimants barrister, why did the claimant meet and offer a rebate if we stayed with them - which would offset any overcharging - before I finished the question the Judge told me to stop as this was not a relevant question (this was in my witness statement by the way) to which he replied I know. He then spoke for about 20 minutes and awarded judgement - and also costs to the claimant, and basically said our case was rubbish, it was clear we had breached terms and conditions and owed the money. There was no discounted pricing agreed (which gobsmacked me as the emails were there - along with what I had written on the witness statement). It was akin to a stitch up because we didn't have a barrister - he did hint we should have maybe paid the money to the claimant and then went after them for the overcharges. He did say to the claimant I am not awarding you xxx as costs (one of the application costs) as this was not the defendants fault, and also he said to the claimant you will be asking for statutory interest at 8%? But as you know I will not award more than 2%.... So the whole case stemmed on the terms and conditions and the law around this, which we had broken by withholding a payment. This payment these invoices refereed to were not in dispute, and as we had paid disputed invoices already we were in the wrong. So that's it, look we did prepare if we lose we would have to pay up - no problem. But the case I felt was awful. It was more like a crown court case not a small claims – not that I had been to either before. Maybe I wasn’t fully prepared or what. Anyway, thank's Andy for your help - we did our best.

I have added to my notes. Can't believe i missed before. Anyway thank you for all your help and i will let you guy's know the outcome.

ok thanks Andy for that - I'm not sure what the Judge will say obviously but I'm just looking into everything very close today. One thing I missed - not sure if it makes any difference and maybe I should have put in my witness statements is; Letter received from xxxxxx xxxx May 2018 warning if payment is not received in 7 days court action will be commenced. We replied with a letter with bullet points / timeline trying to settle - this is the 'without prejudice' letter i refer too. Letter received by xxxxxx on xx June saying a letter before action had been sent to our registered company address – the same day we received the county court claim.

The first was a bullet point and timeline of dates and who we spoke to before the claim was issued and sent to the first solicitor - these points are also in the witness statement and email chains it was to just simplify. And the second was to the new solicitor after the claim was issued confirming a earlier offer to settle with them at half of the disputed amount. This reads a without prejudice settlement of xxxx in the sentence and not at the top of the letter. I'm can't recall why we wrote without prejudice at that time. What do you think?

on post #71 - i asked about 'without prejudice' - I have read through (and confused my self...) and 2 letters we wrote 'without prejudice' from us to the claimants I have included in the WS statements - have I done wrong?

Can I also ask your opinion on post #63 - ''but as the judge said he will deal with also the 'strike' out application on the same day - what argument would i need for this first do you think?''

I think I am more concerned having the barrister there - was just expecting a solicitor (Could we have both?) as I was always lead to believe it was the solicitor and claimant only. I do wonder if once they received our WS they decided on a barrister approach to try and beat us - lets see anyway....

So we have received a trial bundle with all the relevant WS and notes in from the claimants solicitor, as the case is soon. He has also said, these have been passed onto the Barrister.... so it looks as though the case has been passed to a Barrister as well as the solicitor who we had been dealing with - which is not what I expected. I thought the hearing would be in a 'room' as opposed to a fully blown 'courtroom'

Normally our manufacturers will give a % discount off the RRP. The quote/price was honoured for 2 months, and then prices reverted back to full rrp and when we pointed out the problem prices reverted back to what was quoted. Other suppliers to use are no problem, and we found another easy enough. We did try and meet them half way but they wouldn't listen - despite evidence in our favour. There WS is very vague, as though they haven't been briefed internally within the company, and the solicitor again i believe wasn't briefed fully. Let's see if we hear any more prior to the court date in a couple of weeks time....

So received a updated Witness Statement. They are still claiming there points from the initial Witness Statement and my WS proves some of there points they deny. Couple of points though, they are referring us to a clause in there terms and conditions, that all amounts owing are to be made without set off, counter claim or deduction - there claim is based on us not paying a disputed amount. Also that it was our responsibility to check acknowledgements and invoices before paying - we had paid and not picked up for several months. These 2 points do worry me and i wonder if this will weaken our defence.....

Thanks Andy. So posted our witness statements this morning special delivery so they will receive Monday morning, and i will call the court to confirm they paid there fee. Also, i assume the witness statement they sent us last July, is the final one from them as they haven't submitted any since directed to by the judge?

can i just ask, the 'claimant' referred to CPR16 - whilst we said CPR16.5- when we said we complied with the initial defence - which is correct? i assume whether its business or consumer its the same?

another question, when i previously sent a letter to the claimant 'without prejudice' can i still use this in my evidence?

Thanks. I did think that last part maybe sounded silly, i will take out. Conclusion, '' i duly request the court dismisses the claimants strike out application, and initial claim be dismissed as i have demonstrated that the claimant made a agreement with the defendant.I have also demonstrated how we tried to resolve this prior to court action by the claimant.'' Do i ask for costs - as the claimants solicitor has asked for in there claim?

if i could ask you look over for me? When i refer to attachments 'abcd1 etc' i have copies of emails / letters.

IN THE COUNTY COURT AT xxxxxxxxxxx CLAIM, No: xxxxxxxxx BETWEEN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Claimant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Defendant WITNESS STATEMENT OF xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I, Liam1806 will say as follows: 1. I am employed by xxx and authorised to act on behalf of the defendant. The matters to which I refer to below are all within my own knowledge unless otherwise stated and I am duly authorised to make this Statement on behalf of the defendant. I refer to the attachments ‘abcd and the attachments referred to below are the corresponding page numbers within ‘abcd 2. With respect, our initial defence entered via MCOL complied with CPR16.5, and defence only allowed us to enter a short version. I refer to attachments ‘abcd1’ 3. We had submitted to the claimant a full breakdown of our defence, also to xxxxxxxxx prior to the claim being issued. We had attempted to settle with the claimant, and the claimant’s representative on several occasions. The claimant had refused to acknowledge. I refer to attachments ‘abcd2’. 4. The Defendant agreed a ‘special’ price on the xxxxxxx 2017 with xxxxx, then Sales Manager for xxxxx and the then sales director who emailed a quotation over which we accepted. On the 31st July prices were reconfirmed with xxxx as a price increase was coming up. I refer to attachments ‘abcd3’. 5. On the xxxx 2018, we spotted incorrect prices during a yearly audit and notified xxxx straight away who said they would pull off invoices to check. We were never replied to, only that they were waiting for the CEO to respond. This never happened. We then replied on the xxxx 2018 to say we are currently withholding outstanding payment until this was resolved, this was as a last resort as we never would normally do this but felt that xxxxx were not being co-operative. We settled all invoices which were correctly priced. I refer to attachments ‘abcd4’. 6. When we pointed out the price errors, an order being processed was amended to special pricing. I refer to attachments ‘abcd5’. Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx 7. As xxxx were not given any assistance by xxxx we calculated that we had been overcharged by £8,065.18. This figure, as previously stated was the difference between agreed special pricing and prices charged and invoiced for. Prior to this coming to light, xxxx had paid every invoice promptly to the claimant, and in fact during 2017 we spent in excess of £58,000. I refer to attachments ‘abcd6’ 8. Invoices we have been over charged on are, I refer to attachments ‘abcd7’. Invoice xxxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Invoice xxxx Total xxxx 9. 5th March 2018, a meeting was arranged with xxxxx then Sales Director, for the 6th March where we discussed how to move forward with future business and xxxx stated he would investigate the over pricing further. On the 8th March we then received an email stating orders were on hold due to non-payment. I refer to attachments ‘abcd8’ 10. On the 19th March 2018 we placed an order on the agreement we would pay straight away, whilst we discussed the way forward. This order was invoiced at the correct special pricing. I refer to attachments ‘abcd9’ 11. Meeting was arranged with xxx Directors and xxx Directors to discuss the pricing on the xxx 2018, but xxx would not discuss the overcharging, only that if we continued to buy from them, they would offer a ‘rebate’ at the end of the year to migrate the overcharging. 12. xxxx states that a call was put in to xxxx, although we had no record of this, as I’m positive our Head Office would have realised the importance of this call and passed it to Mr xxxx or myself. 13. When orders were placed by xxxxxxx, we would email orders directly to xxxxx sales office without prices entered in. These orders were then accepted and processed with acknowledgements sent to our central accounts dept to marry up with invoices when they arrived to pay, unfortunately prices were not cross matched for errors. This accounts lady had since left the company. When deliveries were made to our warehouse by xxxxxx, delivery notes did not bear the pricing, so issues were not picked up on. 14. We have estimated the over charging to be £6,720.98 + vat (£8065.18 including vat). this is despite asking xxxxxx on numerous occasions to investigate, which has been ignored. We had also given xxxxx proof of the agreement. It is very unfortunate that xxxxxx has been treated in this way by a supplier, especially considering in 2017 we spent with xxxxx in excess of £58,000 – always paid promptly. This has never happened before with any supplier in our years of trading. We had also since spoken to xxxx, who had left xxxxx who had confirmed that the initial agreement was correct and made with her then xxxx to work with xxxxxx and gain more business in the future. This was agreed at the offset in January 2017 and was the basis of xxxx gaining xxxxxxxx long term business. We have identified pricing errors, in that on a couple of occasions we had been undercharged. It appears that the original pricing agreed on the xxxxxx was honoured until the xxxxxx, and from this date higher prices charged. It is our belief xxxxx pricing system was not working correctly, even though xxxxx Sales Manager re-confirmed pricing when asked. Our feeling is, when this agreement was made, and the overcharging came out after the Sales Manager had left, is that the Directors of xxxxx reprimanded the Sales Director and he was removed from his position and told not to respond or deal with xxxxxxx. I would also like to add, whilst we had not taken the services of a solicitor we had taken advice. Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true. Signed:

Morning Guys, so where we are at is the 'claimant has to pay the fee by Friday 18th - whilst i have not had confirmation they have i assume they will. Trial date is February 8th - and the judges directions state witness statements/evidence have to be exchanged no later than 14 days before - i make this by Tuesday 22nd? Have i got this correct? i'm nearly finished anyway and will pop up here..

So it looks like the judge has refused a separate hearing before the main hearing, and ordered the claimant to pay the trial fee to proceed. This seems a good result for us, as the claimant has wasted his money applying for 'strike' out by the looks of it. I am going to get cracking on the WS, but as the judge said he will deal with also the 'strike' out application on the same day - what argument would i need for this first do you think?

Today we have received the attached for a hearing scheduled for early next year. What do you make of it - the judge has added in the points (10) for any documents and defence to be submitted - so this is where we submit our full defence? court.pdf

i did think that... i had filled in all correctly and also cross referenced with his DQ he sent. The only difference between ours was we ticked yes for mediation and he ticked no. Lets see what comes first - judges directions re DQ or the solicitors 'strike out' application.

Quick question regarding the 'directions questionnaire' - had i completed correctly... To be completed by - I entered the company address Your contact details - I entered my name as contact as am dealing with Signature - my signature and the 'pp' for the company as there solicitor has said; I note that your own Directions Questionnaire has been signed off by xxxxx who is held out as your “legal representative” . I have not been served with any notice of acting on the part of a legal representative. Please therefore confirm who xxxxxx is, and which solicitors firm he works for. I trust you are aware that only solicitors are entitled to act as legal representatives on behalf of limited companies. EDIT; have realised now I have not crossed out “legal representative” - I should have left as 'defendant' only....

Thanks. can't imagine the claimants solicitor being happy now as he had submitted the application for a hearing in his local court - and now its been transferred, on the orders of a district judge.

Cheers Andy, so the claimants court takes preference? It won't change anything with the 'strike out' application and defence i entered online because we are a business - is it all the same basis?

updates are; I completed and sent back the directions questionnaire we received and asked for the case to be heard at our local county court. We initially received a 'transfer' of proceedings which the solicitor had asked for as part of his 'strike out' - this was transferred to the solicitors local county court. A judge at this court has now transferred to the county court local to the claimant - i assume this is the 'strike out' application as well. I called the court just now to confirm they had received the directions questionnaire and asked why it wasn't being transferred to our local county court, and they said as its a Business to Business case, the claimants nearest court takes preference?