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Posts posted by Alfie180768

  1. dubious maybe

    but if you hadn't of stopped paying

    none of the above would ever have happened.....



    it is a non regulated agreement so PG is fine.


    The above happened when the original document did not match the carbon copy signed by our former director. Which was requested time and time again. Prior to me as the major shareholder in the company on the recommendation of our accountant, to seek advice on the legitimacy of a hire purchase agreement with blank spaces for an imaginary vehicle.


    There is a country mile between a guarantor and an indemnity - so a PG is not just fine.


    We have a business overdraft that quite clearly outlines a PG and the responsibilities this brings.

  2. So, by that theory, dodgy agreements are acceptable? Gotcha.



    As a consumer, was the business misold a financial product?


    And is it worth reporting them to the FCA, given they are the regulatory body?


    The FOS will deal with the complaint from our former director - now they have all the paperwork - who appears to have a credit file entry that he did not apply for.

  3. Here are some digestible nuggets:


    This is not a peer-to-peer lending facility - which it claims to be.


    Mr Fishwick is a van sales dealer as well.

    Burnley Savings & Loans was set up in 2011 to offer the local people alternatives to using high street banks as they are all fat cats and corrupt according to him.



    He also took on payday lenders and victims of those caught up in them.

    He paid off some people's PDL by offering loans to the people trapped in PDL cycles.

    This was on the TV show aired.



    He is applying for a banking licence (according to This is Money) and has support from Chukka, Vince Cable and CH4.


    Yet,here he is, or his outfit is, offering "business" loans under questionable agreements suggesting that a vehicle has changed hands under a hire purchase agreement and this is okay?



    What about the people placing their funds into savings?

    Thinking they are helping local businesses?

    And the people who have signed a personal guarantee and indemnity without realising or being offered the opportunity to seek guidance on this?



    The former director had a hand-delivered letter through his letterbox threatening court action after one missed payment. Even high street banks do not behave like this.


    You think all of that is okay?

    I certainly do not.

  4. No, we didn't go to Burnley - we live here.


    We applied to Burnley Savings & Loans for a business loan - as advertised on their website after the TV show was aired on his fight against the banks.


    The "Office Manager" owns a company called Dominion Finance. We paid Burnley Savings & Loans - my reference to the OM owning a car finance company is relative to the hire purchase agreement our company received.


    My query was, I should have been clearer, is that our business has hire purchased £5000 and our former director was used as a personal guarantee under a hire purchase agreement and is this legal?


    Hope that makes more sense. Just being given a loan - and paying it back - which we did and have made attempts to since our solicitor has written to them and they have not responded as this was all laid out to them, does not negate the issue their agreements are somewhat borderline flaky. That was my query. Also, the loan/hire purchase agreement is not a legal arrangement for a business when it states quite clearly we have a vehicle which we do not.

  5. The Office Manager is employed by the company who gave us the loan - he does own a car finance company called Dominion Finance. He manages the office of the company.


    Yes, we should have done some due diligence - we did not at that time. A small company that was looking for start-up finance and we were given an agreement that appears to be questionable. This has been the problem, seemingly - it is hard to put it out without getting responses such as you have which I understand.


    Have you come across Bank on Dave?

  6. I ceased the payments originally as I had asked for a copy of the original agreement and was refused them.


    And our accountant was unable to place this is a liability on the business due to the agreement being a hire purchase one - he kept asking me also for the details of the car we had taken out on hire purchase.


    There is no car - we hire purchased £5K.

  7. Hi again,


    You are being very patient with me. TY.


    Yes - that is exactly what they have done. The office manager owns a car finance company.


    On the agreement - it states the following:


    Hire-Purchase Agreement - For agreements outside of the Consumer Credit Act. Primarily for Vehicles.


    "This hire purchase agreement is made between (name of them)


    "Particulars of Hirer"


    Our company etc


    Particulars of Goods




    Registration Number

    Vin Engine No - here it says "see attached schedule"

    Body type



    New or Used


    Financial details and Payments:


    Cash Price of goods - the handwritten entry is £5000


    Less pt/ex NIL

    Less cash - NIL

    Amount of credit - £5000

    Hire purchase charge - £2980.00

    Documentation fee - 100.00

    Option to purchase fee - £100.00


    Insurance information


    Hire Purchase Price £8180.00


    The ts and cs are that of a hire purchase agreement in relation to a vehicle.


    The guarantee is in the name of the company - the indemnity details the name and address of the former director.


    In the guarantee and Indemnity - where it says the type of agreement - HP agreement.


    Before signing the Indemnity, the former director was not offered the opportunity to seek advice.


    The other side of this - is that the company offering this facilities offers a savings scheme to local people - similar to that of Zopa or other peer-to-peer lending facilities.


    Am I making more sense now?

  8. The business is not out of pocket - they are.


    We have tried to contact them to resolve the dispute but they have blackwalled our business email.


    As far as we are concerned, the payment to Falcon Management has been applied to our account - they instructed them not us. The people on the other thread are victims, we are not.


    There is no vehicle - the agreement is for vehicles.

  9. Hi BankFodder,


    Thank you for replying - I will do my best to answer your questions.


    I have seen the Falcon Management posts - Although we were the debtor.


    The top copy of the hire purchase agreement does not contain the date of signing or the agreement number. The carbon copy does.


    The loan was made to an incorporated company


    The solicitors I have spoken with have never heard of a hire purchase agreement being used as a process to offer a business loan - hire purchase has goods hired for the period of the agreement - we did not hire £5000 -


    FOS is handling the complaint with our former director as the hire purchase agreement is on his credit file - although even they were stumped at first as they could not understand why he did not have a vehicle.


    I have not claimed fraud, another forum poster has on a business forum.


    In summary, our business applied for a business loan and have a hire purchase agreement used for vehicles. That is what the agreement is - it says it at the top of the form. Hire Purchase agreement - Outside of the Credit Consumer Act. I guess what I am asking is, how can any person or company, hire purchase £5000?


    The PG applied to the former director, was not explained to him.


    Please do ask away - I have likely explained it all clumsily.

  10. Hi,


    This is my first post and I hope in the right section. Apparently this forum is the best place for advice.


    This is one that has had lawyers and the Financial Ombudsman scratching their heads.


    In 2015, I approached a local firm (promoted intently by Channel 4 - this chap is quite the celebrity) for a business loan. On making the application, we were then invited to their office to go over the paperwork. The office manager of the firm (also been on the telly) then proceeded to insist on a copy of our then Director's driving licence - the paper copy of the driving licence. Dutifully, the director obliged and presented the paper copy of the licence. The director then signed the form, and the £5000 start-up loan was sent through to our business bank account.


    The repayments were set as follows:


    Initial payment of £266.25 then 46 months at £166.25 with a final payment of £266.25.


    The £200.00 was the administration fee.


    Payments commenced the month of May 2014 and all was well.


    In August 2015, I met with our accountant to discuss year end - we were discussing the social element of the business which was a Ltd by share company. Accountant advised us to start a Ltd by Guarantee company as we were seeking grant funding to run a couple of projects for the local community. I asked the accountant what we were to do with the business loan and on looking at the paperwork he advised me the loan agreement was in fact a hire purchase agreement and that it was a legal problem rather than an accounting one.


    Here is the part which has had people scratching their heads.


    The agreement for this loan is actually a hire purchase agreement - on digging deeper, we looked at the paperwork and realised this was correct - we only had the carbon copy of the agreement also. The top copy had been sent to our director after the funds were transferred. On looking at the top copy, the date and the agreement number were not on there and it was quite evident the carbon copy did not match the top copy. Staring me in the face and as plain as the nose on my face was "vin number" chassis number, registration number, all relevant to a HP agreement used for a vehicle.


    I emailed their office asking them for an explanation and received a brusque response in that the agreement was explained at the time of signing. I got absolutely nowhere with this stance. So I cancelled the standing order to see ensure they would contact me. Sure as eggs are eggs, I received a phone call as did our director stating the payment had not been made.


    I made the outstanding payment and continued to chase both the original agreement to match our carbon copy and an explanation of the hire purchase agreement detailing the goods under the hire purchase agreement. I questioned the goods were non-existent although we do accept we received the £5000 funds. We had paid for well over a year.


    On further digging, what was originally offered, was a rate of 14.9% with an APR of 29.9%


    We approached a solicitor, he wrote to them on our behalf - they refused to acknowledge this correspondence.


    The director by this time - (September 2015) had resigned as a director from the company due to ill health - he maintained that he was unhappy with the loan agreement and he realised he had signed as a personal guarantor which was not explained to him at that time.


    I decided again I was going to not honour the payment - and wrote to the company telling them I had cancelled the standing order. They then set about sending hand delivered letters to our director's home address - he has had two heart attacks.


    They also sent the same letter to our office and I raised a dispute outlining how we had been mis-sold this "product" and at no time had we taken out a hire purchase agreement.


    Then this company called Falcon Management Services Ltd sent a letter demanding a payment arrangement. In North Shields - I contacted them and began to make payments to them of £250.00 per month to clear the debt.


    Bizarrely, after paying three months, I received a letter from a new account manager from the local firm asking me to set up an arrangement to clear the arrears - I informed this new account manager that we had been paying FMS £250.00 per month for three months and I was amazed that as they had instructed the company to chase the debt that they were unaware this arrangement was in place.


    I received an email back they were unaware I had made these payments and as they had received no payments from FMS they were cancelling their contract with them and the debt was returning to them.


    I began to challenge them on the agreement again - endless emails occurred and I seriously challenged the agreement. They then sent me a blank loan agreement for me to complete. That was in November 2015, my solicitor pushed forward with correspondence asking them to explain the interest rates and the hire purchase agreement - gave them 14 days to respond and to date, he or us have not heard anything since.


    This finance arrangement is led by a person as I said earlier, with various TV appearances on CH4 - claims he is applying for a banking licence, and is still advertising business, personal loans on his website and claims he is a peer-to-peer lender. The company is registered with the FCA with an interim permission number for whatever activities come under that IP.


    Has any person here got any advice in how to proceed with this one? Naturally, I want to out the activities - but I am loathe to - this person has serious support from people in Government - further diligence has led me to some questionable results. I hae spoken to many legal representatives and they are scratching their heads and keep asking me where the goods are. The FO has an open complaint from the former director as the finance is on his credit file.


    Any help would be appreciated. Another forum has told me it is fraud but I am not sure how I am to proceed at all. But I do not want any other small business to be affected as we have - and I know he has loaned money to a woman in the town who set up a florists.


    Help - please.


    Thank you.

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