Hi guys. Will do a major update once I get mum home. Thanks for all the information and support. 

I dug my heels in, refused to compromise and mum is coming home once they can get a care package in place. 

The bottom line is that if going into a care home was in my Mum's best interest - it isn't, she is terrified of going into one - then the hospital would have discussed it with me honestly. They didn't. They panicked as soon as I said that mum and I would refuse to go in, got an urgent DoL. In my opinion the DoL was obtained fraudulently. It will be challenged 

Thank you everyone. I hope for the best and appreciate your efforts but I really fear that this is a stitch up and the fix is in. 

Man in the middle : obviously I don't know your background but you seem knowledgeable. Do you think abuse of process is enough to get the DoL overturned?

49 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

 

I don't disagree, but the "fight for her mother' is going to have to be realistic within the resources available.

 

A "best interests meeting" isn't about the best interests of a patient regardless of resources / realism.

It is about the best interests of a patient within what is realistically achievable.

 

You can push for an increased package of care, even beyond 'average' (you make the point that for every average there are higher levels and lower levels, to cause the 'average' to exist). Yet, they don't have to resource EVERY possible option, for every patient, only those reasonable.

 

Since I'm:

a) repeating myself, (so perhaps not making the point adequately), and

b) have already been seen to be 'derailing the thread' (never my intent: the point is about not trying for something unobtainable because it is "in best interests" but unrealistic.

 

So, I'm out, .......... with one parting observation.

I'm not suggesting Maddy has to "solve the NHS's resourcing problem", but instead needs to make any suggestion she puts forward reasonable and realistic .... or it'll get rejected.

Mate, seriously, please respect my wish to keep the thread specific to my Mum's problem 

16 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

I don't want to derail Maddy's thread, but it IS relevant to this thread.

 

What if the hospital raise it as "better for others that the acute bed is available for acute patients, and better for Maddy's Mum that she is not in an acute bed at higher risk of acquiring a healthcare associated infection" - in fact I think you've already said that this has been raised :

" hospital was "the worst place for her because of infection risk" "

 

So, I'd suggest that instead of trying to get them to keep her in hospital, that you aim for them to asses a package of care that enables her to go back home, that (with adequate support) being in her best interests. Start off with what support you, family and friends acn provide, and then what would be needed on top provided by care at home (rather than a care home).

That's what I am working on. I think a care home is a massive infection risk and infection risk is one of the many things that being cared for at home by me would prove the safest option. 

 I think that the hospital is blatantly lying to get mum out. I realise that if she comes home changes will have to be made for her but I can accept that. 

I can offer a great support package and a network of friends. Mum is terrified of going into a care home and her spirit is already low because of the stroke. Going into a care home will be massively detrimental to her wellbeing and cannot be her best interest 

10 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Hi Bazza. I can see what you're saying about bed blocking and I know it's a problem, but this thread is about Maddy and her current problems and the meeting tomorrow at the moment.

 

My mother was lucky to go into a rehab unit at the hospital after she had a fall or we could have been in the same position. I'm guessing that Maddy's mum doesn't have that option.

 

HB

Thank you HB that's just what I was going to say. This is obviously a very worrying situation for me. I'm happy to discuss the matter in abstract elsewhere but please keep this thread for advice and response to mum's problem 

5 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

yet, pt’s in beds who don’t need to be in an acute hospital bed but aren’t safe to go home : equates to no beds on wards to get pt’s into from ED, so people on trolleys in ED / in corridors.

That too means ambulances stacked up outside ED’s, waiting to unload their patients.

That too means delays in getting an ambulance when you dial 999 / 112.

 

So, (and let’s move this particular  discussion away from being about your Mum),

So, in general, what should a hospital do for a patient who is well enough to be discharged from an acute medical bed, but isn’t well enough to go back home?

What should they do for that same patient, if that patient lacks capacity to decline going to a care home?

They shouldn't misuse emergency procedures to fraudulently put people who should be protected under the capability act in care homes against their wishes. That is abuse. 

I have been my Mum's full time registered carer for several years. That is my job. She will not be alone during the day. 

The couple next door are both trained carers and say that they would sit with mum if I needed a break. Mums best friend is a trained first aider who would sit with her. 

Several of my friends would help. In an emergency one of mum's friends is a paramedic. Subject to availability he would sit with Mum. 

 I think standard policy for the local social service is to assign therapists and carers to visit if I manage to get her home. 

I plan to challenge the DoL. 

That's very possible 

I have been my Mum's registered carer for several years. Her mobility is worse now of course but I think that I could cope. I think that the standard procedure if I manage to get her home is to have carers pop in a couple of times a day and therapists twice a week. 

Thank you HB. There are some great people on this forum 

One more point that I had forgotten to include. Mum has been in hospital for a few weeks but no one felt a DoL was necessary until I said that mum's wishes were not to go into a care home. Within an hour an urgent DoL was issued without any discussion with me. 

 Is it any wonder that I am concerned 

Thanks to invaluable advice from forum members I feel much more confident going into the meeting. 

  I also intend to challenge the DoL. Does anyone know of a solicitor who does this kind of work. 

Thanks Ethel. I am aware that a dol doesn't let anyone sell the house directly but it does let them put mum in a care home which she will have to sell the house to pay for. 

 Mum struggles with words and memory but it's intermittent, minute by minute. The capacity act would have protected her but the dol feels to me like a deliberate attempt to bypass those protections. 

Thank you man in the middle. That's very informative. I'm in the UK by the way

The "whole team "will be there apparently. This includes a social worker who has never met mum or I, sneaky doctor and several therapists. Don't know who else. I am taking a friend but the social worker says that I can ask for an independent advocate, which the hospital pointedly didn't tell me. This is another reason why I get a bad vibe about the whole process. 

BazzaS I'm unsure who benefits from getting my Mum's money, presumably the care home 

Mum has been in hospital for a few weeks. She had 2 strokes and caught covid in hospital. She has chronic asthma and is in her nineties. During her isolation she had a bad fall. 

Despite this every therapist, nurse and doctor said that she is making excellent progress. Until the particular doctor just said that treatment was pointless because of her age and hospital was "the worst place for her because of infection risk" but insisted she'd be better off in a care home than her own home.

I pointed out that care homes were the worst for infection but he keeps pushing the care home angle. In the 24 hours since that I was assured that mum's fear of a care home and desire to come home would be honoured. Then same doctor had a word and a dol was issued without being discussed with me.

There was a meeting about mum that was supposed to include me and the same doctor said that I'd agreed with him that mum is mentally incapable, which I categorically hadn't. 

I would love to know if Doctor has a link to a care home. 

Thank you everyone. 

No one spoke to me at all about the dol. I'd never heard of one until I was told one had been made against mum. 

 My concern is one particular doctor is acting In bad faith. Also the timing, dol issued Friday evening, meeting at 9am Monday so everything is closed for the weekend and I can't get any advice. 

Is a health and welfare poa separate to a financial one?

I don't have it here. I do remember signing a lot of paperwork but it was years ago. I'll have to contact the solicitors to check I suppose. 

For reasons I've stated in the NHS thread I wish that I had power of attorney. I've just been told that my mum gave me power of attorney when she gave me control of her bank account. Is it possible? 

Thanks honeybee. At the moment I'm desperately looking for someone to speak to over the weekend.