Don't play secret squirrel won't help you

 

I'd let it run

For how long? I've seen that they are very aggressive with regards to serving court claims. A CCJ isn't going to be ideal... but you reckon ignoring them is the best advice?

I'd rather not give the amount, I know debt collectors read all these forums.

But I worked out the o/d fees and interest charged makes up a third of the balance.

I've already complained about them phoning non stop but had no reply. Just the continued calls and texts all day long.

Would a 'prove it' letter help? Just to buy me some more time? Ignoring them isn't working.

Hi,

I've had a letter of assignment from Cabot for a overdraft which defaulted 2 years ago. It was an old student account turned graduate account that I stopped repaying when it went from interest free to £90/month.

I'd just like to know what, if any, my options are? I calculated that about a third of the balance is made up of interest and charges. I disputed these with the FOS recently and they didn't uphold my case despite proof of them causing financial hardship.

I can't make any payments atm because I'm out of work. Are Cabot likely to serve a CCJ claim on me quite quickly or do they hold off for a while? This won't be statute barred for another 3 and half years so I doubt they'll wait that long.

Is ignoring them the best policy in the interim, or do I tell them I'm broke and unemployed, or just go on the defensive and start requesting all the documents etc?

I'm aware overdrafts aren't covered under the CCA so they don't have to provide any agreement, is that right? What about the terms and conditions under the CCA 2006?

Sorry, so many questions. I just don't know how best to approach this.

Thanks

I'll try, not sure if you'll be able to reply

Keep us posted along the way. Initiating legal action is the most effective way to go now. The FOS are far too soft, inconsistent and incredibly slow. Go straight for the jugular!

Name and shame...I will add it to the thread title:madgrin:

There was a non-disclosure term in the settlement... can't you guess who it is though from the rhyme?!

Well done fairhead

 

If you could perhaps reveal once you have your settlement....this will benefit others who wish to follow your path.

 

Great result..thread title amended to reflect the outcome.

 

Regards

 

Andy

The lender rhymes with... ermmm.... Layway Today

You probably also have a case against them for irresponsible lending of unaffordable loans. If you had other debts at the time and were using payday loans to pay off other debts, I'd put a claim in for your interest back.

I think taking legal is best course of action. It's really not at all as daunting as it sounds. I would bypass the FOS and ICO altogether. If they don't respond by the SAR due date, do as BankFodder suggests and send them a letter before action. You can have two aspects to one claim as it falls under the same account... their breach of the DPA and irresponsible lending.

These idiots will NOT want to be taken to court and will in all likelihood settle your claim in full before it's even submitted.

Hi

 

The 14 days I gave LS for a response from my recorded and signed for letter of compliant was up yesterday without so much as a dickie bird so what now ?

 

Do I send a letter now stating due to no response my intention to start legal action ?

 

I raised the dispute on Experian 2 weeks ago also and lending stream have responded to them just to tell me to contact them and therefore as Experian have no further information then they cant alter the entry on my file.

Ive contacted them 15 days ago now and had no response !

 

112

Hi Benny,

Did you also send them a copy by email?

It's not completely necessary but companies like this use registered offices

which just forward mail to another location.

Either way, it's time to start the litigation process, starting with your letter of intended legal action (Notice Before Action).

This letter should be straight to the point.

Ensure it is extremely clear what they need to do to prevent legal action,

together with a brief explanation of why they are in the wrong (legally)

and allow them exactly 14 days from the date on your letter.

Inform them if they do not settle the matter satisfactorily, or respond within this time frame,

you will submit your claim against them to the County Court via Moneyclaim online.

All costs and fees will be added to the sum of compensation you are demanding plus 8% statutory interest

from the date the credit entry should have been removed.

I'd send it to their registered office again, but also send it to their contact email addresses.

Title it accordingly with an added 'Immediate action required, do not ignore' to get their attention.

See if they reply to that. If not, you can then go straight ahead with submitting the N1 claim form to the court.

Actually no, it is not splitting hairs. It is called being accurate.

 

Enforcement can be taken on a CCJ as soon as any payment ordered is not made, and that depends on the timescales set down in judgment. and can be less than 30 days which would also potentially cause more loss to the person misdirected by your standpoint

 

Also it is vital to understand the true picture, although in this case the OP has no intention of appealing, other members may be following this case and your information would mislead them. If they thought it was not a CCJ for another 30 days they would lose the right to appeal which must be done within 21 days of the hearing....

Wrong! A CCJ cannot simply be enforced by a claimant after the order, even if it is made forthwith. They must apply for enforcement through the courts and pay the fee. This can only be done AFTER 30 days of the date of the order and non-payment.

Your suggestion that enforcement can be taken as soon as a payment isn't made and in less than 30 days is utter nonsense.

Yes appeals must be made within 21 days of an order, but that has nothing to do with payment timescales, enforcement, or the registration of a CCJ.

A Partial admission DOES automatically guarantee a County Court Judgement for at minimum the amount admitted.

 

It is only placed on the register if not paid within 30 days.

 

Do not get an actual CCJ mixed up with the act of placing it on the register........

This is splitting hairs a bit. An CCJ is totally meaningless until 30 days has passed. It is just a placeholder. In effect, said CCJ is never going to be registered therefore it is null and void.

Thanks for your reply. I was aware that a part admission would result in a CCJ.

I'm just not clear on the amount that they got a judgement for.

 

 

Does "Judgement Issued" mean they got a judgement for the full amount?

 

I intend to repay whatever figure within a month to avoid the CCJ staying on my credit file.

Part Admission doesn't automatically result in a CCJ. A CCJ isn't registered anywhere unless you fail to pay a judgement order within 30 days of the order date. Even then, it is the Claimant who has to apply to register the CCJ against you.

If you have an order against you, you should receive a 'General Form of Judgement or Order' letter from the court. This letter is what matters and should tell you what exactly has been ordered, how much you have to pay, and the date it was ordered. Don't trust the court to send this promptly, better to phone them early if you haven't received it or query what the order, if any yet, is for.

Also DO NOT trust the claimant if they say they have accepted a settlement. You require them to prove they have discontinued the claim if this is the case. Otherwise you could be in for a nasty surprise later on.

Companies house is saying PaydayUK has been dissolved

They haven't dissolved, that's just a trading name of the parent companies, Instant Cash Loans Limited and Dollar Financial Group.

There are various templates out there but's it's much better and probably easier to write your own. It's along the same lines of your formal complaint but more succinct. Cross that bridge if/when you come to it.

I would add that the account is statute barred and your complaint is not an admission of any liability to them. I'd also remove the part about the FOS and ICO, you can't take your complaint to the FOS after 14 days, you have to wait the full 8 weeks. You also can't do both at the same time. Just say, if this can't be resolved within 14 days, legal action will be considered as time is of a necessity. Then you're good to go I think.

If you don't get the response you're after, then fire off the Notice of Intended Legal Action, which is straight to the point.

don't confuse the SB clock with the default

they are not related

I'm aware of this, but the default on a short-term loan account would typically expire no more than 6 months after the SB date. PDL's cannot be reported for longer than 6 years + 6 months after no payments have been made.

Hi Benny,

No point paying as it now as it's also Statute Barred. Make your formal complaint with no admission of liability. You could also reiterate that as you have not acknowledged the debt, nor made any payments towards it for over 6 years, it is now Statute Barred (presuming this is true and you make no contact with LS prior to the default?). They can't reset the 6 year clock from you complaining. Just ensure you do not acknowledge acceptance of any debt. It's somewhat regardless as they have sold it, but just be sure to cover all bases.

Quote from 2nd page of your adjudicator decision;

"There is no set requirement as to what checks payday lenders should do before lending." - Excuse me, what??

Are they aware of the FCA/OFT regulations? Or just exercising their choice to completely ignore them? The FOS are absolutely unbelievable!

The FCA’s rules on responsible lending are set out in CONC 5 and draws upon the “Irresponsible Lending Guidance” which was originally published by the OFT in 2010 (and updated in 2011). You'll find everything you need under CONC 5. I suggest sending a link or print out directly to this adjudicator and their manager.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5.pdf

Adjudicator.. What step do I take now then?

25 Loans with Sunny? Between what sort of period? And whilst with other loans presumably? The FOS are a joke imo... said this many times, the outcome appears to come down to a coin flip with them, it's totally bizarre. Do you know the total amount of interest paid to Sunny across all loans?

If you have some money put by from your other refunds, I would consider legal action. It may cost you nothing if they settled upon receipt of a Notice of Intended Legal Action....

..... Just read your initial post again.... it seems both entries should now be long removed from your credit file. You have a very strong case against them and I would say you even have a case to request compensation. As these inaccurate and unfair entries are now preventing you from obtaining vital credit, ie. a mortgage, I would include a compensation claim. £150-£300 is a realistic value and I'd suggest requesting £150 in your formal complaint, rising to £300 should you have to resort to legal action. Inform them that their current reporting is deemed as a deliberate circumvention of Section 5 of the Limitations Act, the Data Protection Act, and the ICO guidelines.

See what they come back with.

Hi Benny,

If the account was fully assigned to PRA, then the LS credit file entry should be listed under 'closed accounts', marked as either settled or assigned with a 0 balance.

The PRA entry should be under 'open accounts' if the default is still active. However, you are completely right in saying that the default is dated long after it should be. For short-term loan accounts, the default should be filed between 3-6 months after the relationship has broken down, i.e no payments made.

The ICO will side with you on the phone I imagine, but their complaints procedure is a faff. I personally wouldn't bother. Same goes for the FOS. The FOS don't actually rule using laws or regulations, they simply order what they feel is fair. And if you catch the adjudicator in a bad mood that day, you've had it.

Personally, I would contact LS with a formal complaint, detailing everything they have done wrong and what they need to do to put it right. PRA are simply using the data provided to them, so it's LS at fault. They normally get 8 weeks to respond, but give them 14 days. If you hear nothing within 14 days, send them a letter of intended legal action (see my post about legal action against payday lender), giving them another 14 days to respond.

If after a total of 30 days you hear nothing, or they refute your claims, submit a claim form against them. Even though they are based in the US, they also have a registered UK address, so jurisdiction shouldn't be a problem.

Some people will say court action is a bit extreme, but it's really not. You could get this sorted in less than 6 weeks by doing this. If you use the ICO or FOS, you'll be waiting at least 4-6 months and may not get the result you are looking for.

Any question just ask! Good luck

There's a right and wrong way of complaining against payday lenders. If you get it right first time, you're in the minority. There's almost an art to it. But once you know the system with regards to payday lenders, I believe all justifiable complaints can be settled fairly.

The payday lenders that remain in the industry are not here to keep paying out in compensation for their past mistakes. They will try almost everything to dismiss valid causes for complaint. But here's how to go about it properly.

NEVER call them! Like never. Not only are you wasting time and effort, but they'll try and manipulate you and put you completely off your aim.

Keep everything in writing. In my experience, emails are fine and entirely admissible in court (should it get that far). Snail mail is fine too, just more of a faff.

If complaining about an array of loans with a particular lender, firstly put in an information request. You can simply ask them for all the data they have relating to you and your loans. If they play hard-ball, put in a SAR request (costs a tenner and takes up to 40 days, but is a legal requirement to comply with).

Once you have your data, fire off your FORMAL COMPLAINT. This 'first' complaint must be as detailed as possible (to avoid future letter tennis). Include EVERYTHING that has cause for complaint (see library here for this). Make it clear what you would like them do, be it refund interest paid on unaffordable loans, remove data from credit files etc. Lenders have 8 weeks to issue their final response. Some are quicker than this and come back dismissing everything with a template response.

In some rare cases, you may succeed right here. Well done, job done. But most of the time, you're left with the options of taking the complaint to the FOS, the ICO or initiating legal action.

The problem with the so-called adjudication services such as the FOS and ICO, is that they have to be prize winners for inconsistency and incompetency. They are target monitoring, box-ticking, largely inept civil servants who have just two weeks of training before being let loose on often highly complex cases involving thousands of pounds. That's not to say they sometimes get it right. But frequently they don't just get it wrong, they actually ignore what's in front of them and make stuff up. In my opinion, the FOS cannot be trusted.

However, the justification of using the FOS is that it's free and you may have your case upheld. It's 50/50 after all.. flip a coin and you may win. Even if your case is not upheld you can reject the decision and it's not legally binding. Not helpful if proceeding with litigation, but not always disastrous.

Now here's where you can ramp things up a bit and begin litigation proceedings. If I were to go through my huge number of complaints against lenders all over again, I would bypass the FOS altogether and go straight to litigation after formal complaints. You must start by sending the lender a Notice of Intended Legal Action. It’s best to use recorded mail for this as this notice is part of the MoJ Pre-Action Protocol and proof of postage could be paramount later on. This notice should be kept straight to the point. There are templates available on various websites, but’s it’s best to write your own.

Title the letter ‘Notice of Intended Legal Action’ to be clear to the lender that this is a pre-action warning that needs responding to. Summarise the fact that you now intend to commence legal action as they have not resolved your cause for complaint. Then clearly state what they have done wrong and the laws, regs, guidelines etc they are in breach of i.e. CCA, DPA, FCA/ICO regs etc. You can quote examples of other FOS cases of identical nature which have been upheld if necessary. You must also be clear about how they can put things right and avoid your intended action. Give them a minimum of 14 days to respond satisfactorily.

Receiving letters such as this is not something that payday lenders are typically used to. In some instances, they may fold there and then and settle your complaint. In other instances, they will continue to dispute everything in your claim and may pass the matter on to their legal department (i.e. Colin, two desks over in the office). Other times they may ignore you completely thinking that you are bluffing.

If they either dispute your claim or don’t respond after 14 days, here’s where you start your legal claim. [NOTE: Only start legal proceedings if you have the required evidence to prove they are in breach of statute law(s) and/or regulatory rule(s). You will need to demonstrate clearly why they are at fault]. It’s really not as daunting as it sounds. The easiest way is via Moneyclaim Online. Open a Gov Gateway account and all the instructions are there. The fees for doing it online are cheaper as well. For claims up to £300, it’s only a £25 fee, for up to £3000 the fee gradually increases to £105. All fees are added to the total sum you are claiming for, so you’ll get them back if they settle or you win later on.

You’ll have to complete the N1 Particulars of Claim form. This is what will be sent to the defendant and it needs to comply with the Practice Direction. There are numerous guides available for completing this. But keeping it very simple and on point is the best way to go. Once sent, the defendant has 14 days to respond by either Acknowledging Service and admitting liability, accepting partial liability, or registering their intention to defend. If after 30 days, there has been no response whatsoever, you can apply for a Summary Judgement against the lender and they will have a CCJ registered against them.

Upon receipt of the claim form, most lenders are typically not going to want to end up in front of judge pleading that they are a responsible lender and that the FCA got it all wrong. In addition, as soon as a court hearing is allocated for a payday lender, the Daily Mail will be all over it like a Diana exclusive. The press love stories against these companies and it would only trigger more bad PR for them. So, it is much more probable that they will try and settle outside of court.

In the unlikely event that they do take it all the way, worst case scenario is you don’t win, however, this is unlikely if you use your evidence and other case studies effectively. If you have an outstanding balance with them, it’s probably best to thread carefully if the sum you’re claiming for is less than you currently owe.

I think if more people started issuing claims against these dismissive lenders, they would have to start resolving complaints sooner. But as it stands, most complaints are not upheld and that’s the end of it. Irresponsible lending of unaffordable loans are the biggest cause of complaint, and if taken all the way, I’m very confident that everyone can be awarded the appropriate redress. Use all of the information available to you and never take a lenders final response as the final word.

Good luck with your battles, keep going and you will win in the end!

Well my claim was based on their deliberate circumvention of ICO guidelines, the Limitations Act and the DPA. I did include irresponsible lending too, but who's to say what the victory is actually based on seeing as they still refuse to admit liability.

All that matters to me is that they'd rather settle than face court proceedings!

I'll reveal the lender once the settlement is complete and I've discontinued the claim.

An update for you all.... I have received a settlement offer just days before I was able to apply for a summary judgement!

Their offer is made 'without prejudice (save as to costs)' and 'with no admission of liability', but I am going to accept it as it's a better offer than what my claim is for!

They are going to remove the account from my credit file with all CRAs, pay £250 in compensation, and take no further action against me for the outstanding balance on the loan account (effectively a full discharge).

:whoo:

Just goes to show, these payday lenders do not like it when you initiate legal proceedings against them. Even though they are settling to avoid costs, they know they'd be in trouble in front of a Judge had they defended.

...... A few members in this forum had very little faith in this claim to say the least... "you'll lose in court and badly", "waste of time" etc. When financial institutions are in the wrong and simply will not budge (especially payday lenders), I'd recommend anyone to take the litigation route. In as little as 6 weeks, I have the optimum outcome.

Might have a shandy tonight to celebrate!

Do the FOS never uphold these types of cases any more? Or is it possible but rare?

I don't use Lloyds any more, had to open a 'safe' basic account elsewhere.

It's been over 2 years since they defaulted it and it's already been with 4 different DCAs

so I reckon it's due to be sold on soon I guess.

I owe around £1800, but about £700 of that is made up of charges and interest added on top as well.

So probably half the amount due is the banks own charges on what was supposed to be an interest-free graduate account.

Annoys me how an account designed to financially support graduates can actually be used to exploit and fleece graduates when they inevitably fail to pay back the overdraft in full on demand.

If/when it is sold on, is it easy enough to defend against overdraft claims?

Re the payday loans fiasco, I'm well over the worst of that.

Out of about 20 loans with different lenders,

I've had a number written off, refunded and compensated for etc via the FOS

and I'm down to the last 3 stubborn ones.