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Liliya

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Posts posted by Liliya


  1. Is this the same "getting caught" as you described in the previous thread, where you describe being able to settle out of court?

    (If so, why are you posting again?)

     

    If this is a new episode : if you "got off light" before - why would you expect them not to prosecute this time?

     

    The previous thread said "caught" November 2015, letter from TfL December 2015, and settled in May.

    Now you are saying caught in May 2016.

     

    So it seems you are confused about the dates, or are on a wind-up, or after getting off light once, decided to abuse a Freedom pass again.

    Which is it?

     

    Hello BazzaS,

     

    This thread (posted in August 2016) was not written by the same person.

    I am Liliya = 1st Liliya = caught in November 2015

     

    However, Lilliya = 2nd person with double "L" is another person imitating my username.

     

    I really thought Consumer Group changed the title of my thread at the beginning.

     

    It has nothing to do with me, it is neither the same account nor the same person .... And it is my first case!!!

     

    Hi Lilliya,

     

    I am sorry, you are confusing people here.

    See people are writing more threads not concerning your topic.

     

    Why are you imitating my username?

     

    I am sure you did it intentionally.


  2. Around £1000.

     

    Well, it is a heavy cost for me comparing to the fare I avoided.

     

    Also, I mostly used it off-peak hours but TFL didn't not consider that.

     

    Sometimes between 2 zones (for just £1.50) but TFL consider all (around £5) and they did the sum to get the total.

     

    I just accepted it because I could not negotiate with the prosecutor department with my overwhelmed feeling.

     

    I forget ..

    Then they added the legal costs, admin costs, etc...


  3. hey well done

     

    dx

     

    Well done for persevering with this, Liliya, I'm pleased it worked out for you.

     

    Thank you for letting us know, I'll change your thread title. :)

     

    HB

     

     

    Thanks a lot dx100uk and honeybee13

    Your advice were very valuable, especially when you convinced me to confess my multiple use.

     

    Hope people get some awareness of the severity of Freedom pass miss-use before it become too late.


  4. Just out of curiosity, how much did they settle for?

     

    Around £1000.

     

    Well, it is a heavy cost for me comparing to the fare I avoided.

     

    Also, I mostly used it off-peak hours but TFL didn't not consider that.

     

    Sometimes between 2 zones (for just £1.50) but TFL consider all (around £5) and they did the sum to get the total.

     

    I just accept it because I could not negotiate with the prosecutor department with my overwhelmed feeling.


  5. Hello everyone!

     

    I would like to thank everyone who helps me in this forum concerning TFL fare evasion and how to get a settlement out of court.

    I really appreciate it.

    I got finally an offer to settle out of court, however with heavy cost to pay...

     

    Before starting my story, I want to say that I was just a little bit lucky to get a 2nd hearing date.

    I don't know whether the court got all my evidence from TFL with mitigating circumstances, or they just decided to adjourn the first one...I don't know...Anyway it was in my favour to get some more time to approach TFL prosecutor department for settlement.

     

    ------------------------------------------

    So after I got the 2nd hearing date,

    I managed to phone the person dealing with my case, however it seems that TFL prosecution department are so busy prosecuting offenders...

    Then I felt they didn't review my case well with supporting documents, and it was my fault I didn't contact TFL for an update of my case for a couple of months!! (in fact I was abroad).

     

    I tried to convince TFL that a Criminal Record would have a bad effect in my future career prospects and settling here in the UK, I explained my circumstances and briefly the reasons why that did happen and I was about to cry... TFL prosecutor was not very convinced that I met the conditions of settlement out of court and told me I had an aggravating case and when I apologised in the beginning and I said I was very sorry, the prosecutor told me to say sorry at court (well I had to be very respectful as it was up to them to offer a settlement -- and they had strong evidence against me).

    I aslo asked if they took into account my mitigating circumstances (it seems not and I think they have loads of cases for prosecutions unfortunately !!).

    Then the TFL prosecutor told me to give them a call the following week...

     

    As the hearing date was approaching, I was so scared. I phoned them, I was trembling and my voice was shaking...I was so nervous about my actions and what was written against me in the Summons.

    I apologised, promised to never repeat again and asked if a settlement could be considered in my case, I could not concentrate well to reason with them and even I tried to have a deep breathing to talk normally but my voice kept shaking.

    I did not even negotiate the offer to pay for settlement (in fact, I knew I couldn't afford to pay a big offer ...so I left to them to calculate).. I just agreed to pay whatever TFL thinks it is reasonable as a result of my actions.

     

    They asked for a written response, but as I already sent them and my hearing date was approaching I got the email for the concerned person and emailed all the PROOF to settle out of court.

     

    Then after few days I got an approval but with heavy sum to pay as an alternative and it must be paid one-off before the hearing date.

     

    I was so relieved and shocked in the same time.

    However, I didn't call to negotiate the reasons why it was so high...they already instructed a solicitor against me and the progressing time was not in my favour.

     

    I just want to say that unfortunately I learned my lesson the very hard way...it was all my fault to not be aware of the legal proceedings for fare evasion using a freedom pass for another holder.

     

    I am very grateful to this forum to help me for my case and how to proceed further, also I am grateful to TFL people to withdraw my case.

     

    I personally prefer to pay that heavy sum to TFL than to instruct a legal lawyer in my favour..The total cost might be more.

    Well, it was a bad experience for me, but I will be very careful in the future.

     

    Thank you so much, I appreciate your help!!


  6. Hi everybody,

     

    I went abroad for a couple of months, I am back now but I didn't receive any letter from TFL.

     

    Shall I contact them please to ask the progress of my case or shall I just wait? It has been now around 3 months from my last letter delivered to them.

     

    I don't know as well if something arrived in my absence and then it was lost...

     

    it would not hurt to ring

     

     

    tdx

     

    I phoned them,

    asked for an update but they already sent me a court summons with allegation: ''intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of the Regulation of Railways Act (1889)".

    I didn't receive it, maybe the landlord took all not collected letters...or someone else took it.

     

    TFL resent me a copy again.

    But I have a new hearing date approaching, as the first one was adjourned (I was absent at court and didn't reply via post)

    I am very worried as I don't know what to do next. Please help.

     

    Is it automatically to get a new hearing date if we don't reply and don't attend in person?

     

    I appreciate your advice.

    Thank you


  7. "How did you obtain this card?"

    - "My dad wasn't using it and I thought I would borrow it."

     

    here is my personal story...

     

    [ Circumstances ]

    So up til this incident, I've been working in a new job for 3 months.

    Slowly trying to save money to be able to bring my other half here so we can be married and start a life together.

    Right about the time I just started my job, my Dad offers to let me use his freedom pass!!!

    Oh how I wish right now he didn't tempt me... I had always paid my travel costs as any good citizen would.

     

    He argued that it would help save costs and aid in my efforts to bring my other half over (requiring financial support).

    My Dad has no clue of legal stuff so didn't know the complications in their entirety when giving me his freedom pass.

    [ and closing... ]

     

     

    Hi,

     

    I personally can't give a big advice, as I was caught last month...and I don't know yet what will happen for my case.

    However I strongly advise you NOT to mention that your father allowed you to use it !!!

    You could be punished both of you by LAW.

    No just his freedom Pass withdrawn from you.

     

    You state:"my Dad offers to let me use his freedom pass!!! "

    No need to confess that at all.

     

    Try not to worry a lot, as I know it is very scared situation to get a criminal record.

    Try to calm down so that you can confess approximately how many times you used the pass.

    They can track the usage via CCTV if TFL want...

    when you was caught: if it was the same time/same location you were leaving/returning home for multiple times...then better to confess approximately because most probably they will suspect it was you...and they are right.

    Don't keep lying...it is not in your favour I think.

     

    This is what I have been advised so far from CAG forum.

    Thanks to them I was convinced as you know we don't like to give evidence to TFL against us.

     

    Logically speaking, it is up to them to settle out of court...However we have to pay all the previous avoided costs.

     

    ----------------------

     

    For our point of view: we don't like to admit the multiple time Pass use, because we don't like to make our case more serious to avoid the criminal record.

     

    However,

    For TFL point of view: If we don't admit the multiple time Pass use, we are trying to avoid paying the previous costs.

    for this reason a one-off offence, have to be proved to TFL...Can you prove to TFL that it was a very honest genuine first mistake?

    if you can't (I can't prove it neither:) )...then for them it was you 90%

     

    So, at this stage I personally think:

    try to convince TFL not to proceed to court,

    + admit that it was not a one-off and apology

     

    Hope that goes well for both of us.


  8. Hello everybody,

     

    I just want to update that I send TFL another letter today.

    I admit my multiple uses and how many times I used the Pass approximately.

     

    I didn't repeat the same letter, just added what is convenient to my case,

    apology again + ask to settle out of court + offer the cost

     

    Yesterday when I contacted TFL from the prosecution department, they were nice.

    I said I wanted to rectify a mistake (I mean the first version of lying :) )

     

    They just took a note I used the pass on multiple occasions.

    ..said they have noticed that as well, the pattern showed that.

    ..but TFL did not ask me any more clarification.

     

    TFL said they didn't study the case yet...and at this stage they don't prosecute me.

     

    and if I want to update it should be via a letter. That is it.

     

    So now I am feeling better...just I am waiting for the outcome.


  9. Hello there.

     

    How are you getting on? Did you manage to speak to TfL?

     

    HB

     

    Hello,

    Yes just today morning for less than 10 min.

    I preferred to take few days to calm down.

     

    I rectified my mistake that I used the Pass on multiple occasions and did apology.

     

    TFL person said they didn't study the case yet (I mean with supported documents)

    and they can not deal it via phone.

     

    I said that I didn't know before about the TFL legal proceedings (Criminal record, go to court and get convicted...),

     

    But TFL didn't ask how many time? or any thing else about the multiple times I used the card nor HOW/WHEN/WHERE....

     

    Just to write to them and I will get a response after Christmas.

     

    So I didn't negotiate and forget to suggest ""the offer to pay the costs to settle out of court""

     

    Also I completely forget to ask TFL for our phone confirmation via email.

     

    I was a little bit stressed.

     

    I just send to the generic email (For this person's attention xxx) as you told me honeybee13.

     

    So now, can I just said I used multiple occasions.

    That is it and wait. no more explanation.

     

    Or mention roughly how many weeks or how many days per week?

     

    Plus of course I will apology + write the mitigation circumstances again briefly.

     

    Thank you


  10. I imagine your letter has a name at the bottom of it? When you speak to that person, ask them what their email address is and if they don't say they'll email you to confirm the conversation, send them a summary of the conversation and what was agreed. If they don't give you an email address, send your message to the general one and mark it for this person's attention.

     

    HB

     

    Ok, thank you so much honeybee13.


  11. Crossed posts, dx, sorry. I don't think we're disgreeing though, except over whether to ring or write. :) I've read plenty of threads where people negotiated over the phone and this could be confirmed by emailing the TfL person.

     

    HB

     

    When negotiating via phone, how to confirm that via email please.

    I just have a generic email from TFL on the letter and not the person who deals with my case?

    Thank you


  12. Hello again,

     

    Thank you very much dx100uk and honeybee13. Really appreciate it.

    OK, I am convinced now. I have to call them I think.

     

    Thank you again dx100uk.

    I didn't understand well the phrase "As it currently stands"

     

    I thought that now TFL don't like to accept an offer but they might accept it in the future after reviewing my case.

     

    However, I find these meaning when googling it:

     

    "as it stands" encompasses a physical/cultural/business state which is typically expected to require proactive input

    to change.

     

    "As it stands" means "if things continue the way they are now", or "if things don't change from the way they are now".

     

    So the meaning of TFL is:

    " If you keep your first version that you used the Pass just once, TFL do not wish to accept your offer of a payment as a closure to the matter."

     

    I am sorry for wasting your time, I am not very fluent in English.


  13. Hello again.

     

    I'm not sure there will be another response from TfL. By all means wait for other responses, but I read their reply as putting the ball in your court.

     

    As it currently stands TFL do not wish to accept your offer of a payment as a closure to the matter.

    I must point out that legal proceedings may still be taken against you. "

     

    Personally, I would be trying to negotiate on the phone with the person who signed the letter, because you could find that the next thing you get is a court summons. I think you may have misunderstood the 6 month time limit, my understanding is that TfL have up to six months to take this to court, but from other threads I've seen here, a summons can arrive quite soon after TfL receive a response from the passenger.

     

    HB

     

    Hello,

     

    Thank you honeybee13 for the reply.

    My mum said the same I should phone the person who signed the letter and not wait for the summons.

     

    For me I am still not convinced, I don't know.

    because via phone the prosecutor needs some clarification for the total offence (as it is the TFL person duty, which is right)...that means I have to admit the multiple uses.

    And it is not in my favour to contact a person (who I might be face to face with at court) and keep lying...and I can't do it.

     

    And if I will admit via phone the multiple use, it is easy for them to prove against me and likely to bring the case to court as it is not ONE MISTAKE, it is intended to cheat few times...it is like a big fraud.

    And I might not be able to defend myself to reason with the person (with mitigation circumstances)...as I will be very very anxious.

     

    Also, when calling via phone I don't have prove that I cooperated with TFL to show it to court later (if needed and my case goes further).

     

    I don't know if I should send a letter via post and confirm I lied.

     

    I am still worried and confused.

     

    Well, normally someone needs to admit his fault and then ask forgiveness. Not lie and ask forgiveness.

    However, these legal things is quiet risky.


  14. Who knows?

     

    I can't see why it makes much difference to you. A prosecution for one or more evasions of fare seems likely. The only real difference likely from "one episode" vs. "more than one episode" is in terms of having to pay the fare(s) evaded, and I'm not sure this will make a massive difference in terms of the total bill you are facing, nor the likely criminal record that would come with a conviction.

     

    Thank you so much for your response BazzaS

     

    Yes it is true, I know this.

     

    But for me, at this stage:

    ==> if I know that they will 80% gave me the offence (multiple use), I will try to approach TFL now...said that I lied, ask for forgiveness not to go to court.

    If I will wait to ask to settle out of court once I got their response...They might ask me why I did not cooperate before...because to get a summons I think I should wait up to 6 months. I am not sure.

    Because my main focus is criminal record...I want to avoid it if possible.

     

    ==> On the other hand, if I know that they will 80% gave me the offence (single), I will wait for their response. Not because of the costs, but because it is easy and more comfortable to apology and ask forgiveness if it is just once.

    Anyway, it is up to them to not settle out of court. They are right under the law, and of course I will plead guilty.

     

     

    But I am not sure...I don't know shall I get a solicitor and act from now...Shall I call them and confess...do you it via post??

    Because I have a friend who is a solicitor (not criminal..immigration) and he asked a senior barrister about my case, however he said me

    "You have to wait for their response, nothing can be done, need to wait and see"

    As I am worried about the matter, I tried to get other people opinions including other solicitors...or any case similar to me.

     

    It is bad, I don't like cheating and regret it but I really did not know the bad consequences of my actions.

    Well it is done now


  15. I'm not sure it matters a great deal what you say now.

    TfL usually prosecute Freedom Pass abuse.

     

    I don't know if they check CCTV or not, but they already have reason to believe that you lied about the usage being a one off.

    If you now confirm you lied : likely they'll prosecute.

    If you stick to your story that you only used it the once, they'll likely suspect you are lying : and if they check the CCTV they'll definitely know.

    Bear in mind they don't have to know / prove you are lying : they can prosecute you for the confirmed (single) offence regardless, and their suspicion that you have used the card more than once and lied about it is enough to make that likely.

     

    Thank you BazzaS.

     

    Very reasonable.

    OK say I am going to be prosecuted, then I am going to receive a summons explained the alleged offence asking me to appear in a Magistrate court.

     

    Here the alleged offence in the summons, it will be the (single) offence or my (multiple use) offence?


  16. Thank you so much for your reply ericsbrother.

     

    I don't have Contacless bank card at all, just PAY AS YOU GO.

     

    What do you mean by this please:

    " the penalty for the multiple uses wont be much more than using it just the once when it goes to court."

    does it mean at court, the multiple uses is considered one "big" fraud and that it is, I don't know if my understanding is correct.

     

     

    When you said: "try telling them that you have been very foolish and have learnt a lesson the hard way

    and would prefer to try and offer a settlement if that could be considered. "

     

    I already sent them a first letter explaining approximately that, but now shall I send them another letter ? and shall I confess my multiple uses?

     

    Their first reply was like this:

    " .............

    ...............

    In relation to your actions you state

    "I have not done so before".

    I have analysed the recent travel usage on the Freedom Pass withdrawn from you.

    The pattern of usage would appear to indicate that the incident was not a one-off.

    This is of concern to TFL.

     

    As it currently stands TFL do not wish to accept your offer of a payment as a closure to the matter.

    I must point out that legal proceedings may still be taken against you. "


  17. Thank you so much dx100uk for your answers.

     

    Please do not push me to say exactly...as 1 week 2 or 3 weeks no difference (just cost/penalty calculation is the difference, not my process and how to proceed further now, why I am here in this forum...please).

     

    I think the important mistake that I said I used ONCE, I should have said in more occasions (even not showing exactly). I have time to rectify if it is worth to do it now (waiting for advice please).

     

    However the letter I received asked to give comments on that incident.

     

    Does anybody please know how to proceed further in this stage? I much appreciate it.

     

    I am waiting for other point of view.

     

    Thank you in advance


  18. @ dx100uk

    '' do you hold or have you held any other card that you could/should have used in your own right. ''

     

    I have PAY AS YOU GO cards, however when I was caught I just got one with some money that I did not use it for a couple of months. I think the inspector wrote down the number. This one it is a registered one in my name. Can they check something as well, they did not withdraw it from me. They just took my father's freedom pass.

     

    I said her I lost my other PAY AS YOU GO card so I took my father freedom pass without telling him.


  19. @ honeybee13

    '' Can you give us an idea of what you said in your letter?''

     

    Of course I admitted my fault + apology

    and I mentioned my personal circumstances:

    1) I am unemployed looking for a job for several months now

    2) I am in bad financial circumstances -- I sent my bank statements

    3) my career prospects, visa restriction to travel abroad if convicted.. already proved work abroad

    4) Visa problems here in the UK in the future if convicted under Home Office regulation

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