Thank you, ericsbrother! I did not want to steam ahead until every stone had been unturned. I did look up the minimum sizes for an on-street/off-street parking and there was not much of a difference (4.8mx2.4m as as opposed to 5mx2.4m for an off-street parking bay). In any case, I also read that if the public has access to the road and footpaths of any private estate, it is classed as a public highway. Does this mean that if there are no markings for parking bays, then the way the car was parked will not matter in any case even if the council does not own the road? I just wanted to ensure that they could not try and get me in any other way as the invoice was for not showing a permit anyhow!

Right, that makes sense. However, does parking perpendicular to the kerb make it illegal as I was parked parallel to another resident's car which was in turn parked parallel to the kerb? My car is probably just a little bigger than a Smart car!

Ok, thanks, I will read about it. However, this is where I am a little confused here as I just got an email today from Parking Prankster saying that it is wrong to say that you need to wait for the NTK and that the appeal as RK needs to go in within 21 days??

AS parking are a bunch of jokers, they'll send you a NTK which states on the back of it that your right to appeal has lapsed, which clearly breaks the rules of conduct. Next they'll refer your case to Debt Recovery Plus... another bunch of jokers.... (im having dealings with A S & DRP too lol) Also as bluebox39 states he received a NTK informing him/her that the right of appeal has lapsed. Do they have any grounds on this?

Thanks for all your insight into this. One of my friends is planning to appeal as a driver within the discounted period with the evidence of the poor signage. What are the pitfalls if she does so other than the fact that they then do not have to pay the DVLA £2.50 for the RK's details and further costs down the line?

if I did appeal as RK to the PPC, presumably, they will reject it. Do I then have appeal to the IPC or can I bypass this stage and just ignore the letters demanding payment that come through?

I have not got the pics of the signs to the entrance - will have to pop back and take these. Well, if the signs were visible at the entrance (which none of the 12 drivers saw) with a clear sign to say that it was 24 hours enforced, then I would have thought that at least one of us would have noticed it and questioned it with the householder. The unlit lamppost was right next to the householder's property as well which did not help as it was pitch dark. Did they expect us to climb up the lamppost with a torch if we had indeed noticed the signs?

Here are the pics showing the unlit lamppost and signage: http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w395/kerensacornwall/parking/IMG_8831_zpskvfvbmvm.jpg http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w395/kerensacornwall/parking/IMG_8906_zpsonevcw7u.jpg http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w395/kerensacornwall/parking/IMG_8874_zpsnpfio5ka.jpg http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w395/kerensacornwall/parking/IMG_8911_zpsqlya2xtf.jpg

This is the reply that the householder got on complaining to the estate management team! Note the reference to BPA... All property owners on the development have been provided with two free parking permits and the option to purchase an additional two permits for £15 each. This is in addition to each property owners own demised parking spaces or garages. As requested I can now respond to the points you raised as follows: 1. The parking permit signs are black and white The parking permit scheme is fully operated by A.S Parking Management and Enforcement Services, who are members of the British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme. All signage relating to the permit parking scheme is provided by AS Parking and is in an approved format. 2. The parking permit signs are too high Signs are displayed around the site at various levels. The first sign on entry to xxxx is clearly visible at eye level whilst driving and states that it is a private road with permit parking restrictions in place. Other signs around the site are displayed at appropriate heights for roadside signage. 3. The street lighting is inadequate The street lighting at xxxx is maintained by Persimmon Homes until such time as the roads and streetlights are adopted by Cornwall Council. Any faults with the street lights should be notified to Persimmon Homes or to our office so that we can notify Persimmon Homes on your behalf. 4. There are no road markings identifying the permit parking restrictions The signs displayed around the development notifying visitors that there is a permit parking restriction in place are considered to be adequate, and road markings are not considered necessary. 5. Parking permits should only be required during office hours Unfortunately, before the permit parking restrictions were introduced, unauthorised parking was a problem 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. In fact the problems were generally worse in the evenings and at weekends, when most residents were at home. Visitors to the development are given adequate notice that there are parking restrictions in place, and parking charge notices are issued in accordance with the British Parking Association’s approved guidelines. If you feel the parking charge notices that were issued were unjustified, the driver of each vehicle has the right to an appeal, and full details of the appeals process are given on the parking charge notice and should be sent to - A S Parking Athens Security Services Ltd PO BOX 520 Newquay TR7 9BU

Thank you. Well, that's a little ambiguous, to say the least! How is the driver to know it applies to 24 hours parking??

Just out of interest, in order for the signage to be compliant, is it compulsory to have the hours of enforcement on it?

So, what does that mean? Can we not request a POPLA code?

From what I can tell from the photo of the sinage, they haven't got the BPA logo on that (just the IPC logo), but then why mislead people on the PCNs? May have to go back to the site to verify this.

Exactly! So why do they have a BPA logo on the PCN? They seem to be a member of the IPC!

Does it count for anything for the host of the party to write a latter to the estate management team who have passed the parking control to the parking enforcement team? Also, just noticed that the BPA logo is on the PCN, however, it states on the back that an appeal to the ATA has to go to IPC. Does this mean I request a POPLA code when it comes to it?

Duplicate post

I posted the same question on moneysavingsexpert.com's forum. Interestingly enough, I got a response from one of the residents or it could be A S Parking themselves! These PCNs must have been slapped on the windscreens after the resident complained about one of the guests who blocked their garage, but who duly moved it once notified. “To help you out kerensa as a resident on the estate I wish to address your points, firstly the householder you were at was given a letter and two permits for visitors and the whole process was clearly explained and the person was also personally spoken to about the scheme before it commenced. The signage is clear and prior to the address you have passed some three signs so if these were missed I would question your ability to drive at night as they are all clear and large. Further more having had my garage and my neighbours blocked by a party goer the household was knocked on and no one admitted it was their car! Worth noting that this car was also parked under a sign regarding the restrictions and a street light so clearly no reason to miss it! No lines are required for the scheme as there is clear signage as I have already stated. I question your genuinely careful citizens when numerous drives and garages were blocked by the party goers, I wonder how you would feel if you couldn't get in your garage when returning home from work at night and knocking on doors to no avail. I wish you luck in your appeal as numerous residents were disgusted with the visitors parking attitude and if needed I for one would happily supply to the company any evidence they might required for civil action. I raise the point again that the host resident is fully aware of the parking enforcement and struggle to see your point that you could not see at least on of the five signs that stretch from the entrance to the estate to where the bottom garages were blocked right beside a sign!" Originally posted by maddog2015

Thank you for that. Is it also worth going to the Citizen's Advice Bureau?

This was on a Friday night (13 Nov) and the PCN was stuck on the windscreen. So, are you suggesting we do not appeal via their on-line appeal document even as keeper of the car?

Thank you for your advice, ericsbrother. The ticket was issued at 20:28. I have noticed on A S Parking's online appeal page that you have to put a name and address as well as an email address. Can we get away with putting false names and addresses but valid email addresses (so that we get a reply)?

Thank you, silverfox1961. Yes, these PCNs were on our windscreen. I did take a photo at night and need to take one in daylight. There was a notice on a lit lamppost but this was hardly noticeable as it was dark and moreover high up - needless to say, we were all looking for the house no in the dark. If your advice is to wait for Notice to Keeper, will this not go past the 14 day rule, thereby, increasing the cost? Are you saying that we should not appeal to them as keeper of the car as per moneysavirngexpert.com advises?

I need clarification with a parking charge notice received from A S Parking based over in Newquay. A group of us, 10 in all, received a PCN for parking on private land demanding £60 within 14 days or £100 within 28 days at around 8.30 in the evening. We were attending a friend's birthday party who had no idea that only residents were allowed to park there. We thought of appealing to the company for the following reasons: 1. Everyone was coming to this area for the first time and in the dark. 2. The private parking notice outside the house was not seen as (a) the light was out above the notice and, even if it had been on, (b) the notice was too high to be read from the ground in the dark. 3. When visiting a place for the first time in the dark a driver is generally trying to find the address and, again, as the light was out on this lamp post by this house, no-one saw it. 4. There are no lines indicating 'no parking' on this road. 5. 2 guest cars parked further down the same road did not receive parking tickets. This seems very inconsistent. 6. We are all genuinely careful citizens and not one of us set out to act illegally or unfairly. What chances do we have of these points being taken on board? The company is an IAS member and from what I have read that even if our original appeal has been rejected, appealing to the IAS will be of no use as it seems to be a kangaroo court. Do we just pay up the reduced fine and forget about it? Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.