I've been away from the forum for some years and GOD how things have changed. I've just discovered that my old (premier 50 currant account) was packaged and contained an element for ID protection, which, naturally enough, I would like to claim back. Is there a template or procedural advice that I might be able to use - please?

Thanks Slick, Yes it's a BC account and in the past they've 'rolled over'. Whether they've newer 'fired up' staff I don't know. I am confident that I can beat them I just wanted to avoid the AQ side of things and, having wasted a couple of trees worth of paper on court bundles in the past, I just thought I could do without that for a couple of hundred quid BUT wot the hell...... Ken

Once again Slick very many thanks for your perseverance. The bank is Barclays and, yes, I've done the lba bit and the 'how much' isn't a problem. I was just curious on making a money claim, which I know many did a few years back but I never have. Ken

Slick, VERY many thanks for your input all I would ask is perhaps some elaboration on the following I realise there are more than a few variations from bank to bank but will, in general, use the time honoured 'unlawful' arguments since these were not affected by the supreme court decision.

I'll begin by asking for claims against credit card charges (you'll recall that these are the ones that the OFT did not manage to foul-up). I've been trying to assist a number of people to recover such unlawful charges but I note that card companies are increasingly trying to adhere to their 'belief' that their charges are "wholly justified and fair". I used to just complete an N1 as per 'Small Claims Procedure: A practical guide' - Yes I did purchase one as recommended by this site! I know of no credit card company that has endeavoured to defend its charges or practices in a court of law. I do NOT do this as a business and the folk I've helped in the past would have no chance of a cash refund (the only time someone did receive a cheque we did donate to help CAG) owing to the residual size of out standing balances. I gather we now send our draft N1s to a central clearing house in Manchester but I' ve no idea whether we just send a cheque for the likely fees or what the likely time-line of events will be. Furthermore I would ask whether anyone more knowing than me (not difficult) would recommend the use of the 'money claim' system - if it still exists- and where can I obtain guidance on that? Help please. PS any news on reclaiming of bank charges for other than hardship - any news on those assisted by our friends in Scotland who managed to 'persuade' the banks to settle before being 'gagged'?

Thank you to those who have viewed and/or commented but I would still ask does anyone know whether we already have - or will have- any templates for this particular process?

No fairy tales please

I realise that there are similarities with other re-claim exercises but do we, or will we, have any templates in the library to cover these later 'mis-sells'?

Hi there, My enquiry at #45 is now a further 18 months down the line - still no developments? Are there ANY details of cases (which one must assume, met with a degree of success) initiated by GLC but had gagging orders attached. Is it not reasonable to surmise that the cases in question will be a matter of public record where we can at least glean some useful background?

Is it not possible that Payment Services Regulations 2009 might be a better vehicle for this activity. After all I cannot be the only person who has had his account abused unilaterally by his bank sufficient to place said account into 'unauthorised' territory. Certainly the section titled 'Authorisation of Payment transactions' including regulations 55-68, and, quite probably, other regs as well, would seem to cover the ground? PSRs would certainly seem relevant to a significant degree. I shall read more tomorrow.

Of course I'll let you know what I find, however if what I wrote is true then there are certainly questions to be asked on the 'pro' side.

I am, as I should already have done, doing my homework on CCA,UTCCR, FSA etc. After all, Lord Philips didn't have the benefit of BCOBs when he gave the OFT the, albeit figurative, clip round the ear and left the breadcrumbs regarding possible lines of approach on the bank charge problem. Given that I am faced with diametrically opposed views on the use of BCOB coupled with the apparent fact that there have, as yet, been no BCOB judgements awarded I also do need to care for my disabled son, which does, on occasion, present its own unique set of problems. I am going to progress this but, if only to avoid annoying more experienced Caggers who might take an interest, I am going to complete my homework. Thanks for asking Ken

Ain't that the truth! They don't even speak with the same tongue within the same division. Even the FOS had some difficulty getting a consistent story and although the person at FOS doesn't know it, she STILL hasn't been given all of the correct facts.

Went to appeal and in 2012 DWP admitted that "it was all their fault". Go to appeal!

Bankfodder, YOU asked me to link you, in open forum, at #10 & #13 above et al then, when I do I'm edited out (so not as much losing it but LOSING out). Sorry CAG doesn't like external site referral but it's all I have and with the degree of uncertainty being expressed I need to look somewhere. Plus, I seem to recall other sites being mentioned in days gone by (GLC springs to mind).

I must be defiitely 'losing it' since I sat down yesterday evening and composed a response indicating that much of my earlier observation stemmed from the regs and I assumed (something I rarely do but in this case felt justified) that you were much closer to 'the action' and would already be aware of the reservations expressed. Bear in mind that I have never even completed a moneyclaim (having approached the courts down the N1 path in the past) and merely want to be certain of my ground before putting my money where.........

Ashamed to say I haven't made an 'in depth' studyof the FSA Handbook(but will begin to do so tomorrow) and pleased to say that today's news covering judges and immigration has made it much clearer to me showing how regulations can carry the weight of law without there being an Act of Parliament for backing.

For my part I am content to seek a judgement. However in my early investigations into BCOBs I have foundmany conflicting views, specifically: *on the FSA site "Legal status and disclaimer The FSA has reviewed this Industry Guidance for aspects ofretail banking and has confirmed that it will take it into account whenexercising its regulatory functions. This Guidance is not mandatory and is notFSA Guidance." and from a variety of other sources which you may or may notbe aware of *The background to BCOBS The Banking Code and the BusinessBanking Code have, since 1992 and 2002, respectively, contained importantcommitments that those banks that subscribe to the codes owe to customers. Thecodes are voluntary. The FSA does not treat failure to comply with the industryguidance as a trigger for regulatory action. Compliance with guidance indicatescompliance with the relevant rule but failure to comply with such guidance doesnot necessarily mean that the firm has breached a rule. *BCOBS does not apply to overdrafts or unfair charges. Theregulatory change put the OFT in charge in this relation. I hope no one on CAGis going to assume that this offers a new line for Unfair Charges cases becauseit does not *However, areas of retail banking which fall outside of theFSA's remit, such as overdrafts and credit card lending, will continue to beregulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT)has a duty to license and regulate businesses involved in consumer creditactivities provided that they satisfy the OFT they are fit to hold a licence.As well as retaining responsibility for the CCA areas, the OFT will also haveresponsibility for Part 8 of the PSRs which deals with competition issuesrelating to access to payment systems. You might recognise some of these opinions since youobviously tend to keep closer to the action than I. Assuming BCOBs is, after all, our instrument I would like toclear any phraseology, I might submit with CAG. Is that acceptable?If BCOBs is not the correct path then I’ll persevere with CCA (74)? And/orthose parts of UTCCR99 that might be appropriate but remain unsullied fromOFT/SCoJ attentions. However I REALLY hope that BCOB is the instrument since, as mentioned earlier, I, for one, have had enough of "Gestures of Goodwill". We all know that if a bank has to involuntarily part with cash then there is precious little "Goodwill" in the transaction; I feel most strongly that folk should be able to reclaim what is rightfully theirs without the usual subterfuges.

Of course but it's now very late so I'll do it tomorrow. Ken

Hi Banky, I shall seek a judgement since I have, about, had enough of 'gestures of goodwill'. Time to call a spade a b****y shovel. I shall be pm'ing you on one or two matters before I begin in ernest.

Banky mille thank yous. I had downloaded a monumental piece of BCOB but thought it was sponsored by FSA merely to replace the BC. The fact that it is legislation does, of course, make life a lot more straightforward and I shaa do some serious reading. The account is NOT closed and the sums are not large and I am inclined toward a judgement. I am inclined to agree with you ( having had some dealings with the banks over the years) and I am inclined to refuse an offer. Do I have to state grounds for refusal in order not to upset the courts?

Again, very many thanks Banky, I did NOT realise that Moneyclaim had become preminent and am a little 'wrongfooted' never having gone down that path. Bye-the-bye has anyone tried using BCOB as an instrument to challenge bank charges; or (although the OFT case was heard using an inadequate part of consumer law) did the SCoJ judgement blight our chances for all time under all law and did it subsume that elderly piece which made it unlawful for companies to recover more than liquidated losses? I know this might be considered 'off subject' but I believe it could be a very strong alternative avenue. Notwithstanding this additional request for opinion your earlier info does cover all of my existing points: if it should prove to be necessary do I solely refer to BCOB in my claim or do I need to reinforce it with reference to any legislation?

Thanks Banky - should I try their litigation section before issuing N1 (it's their customer services who were not prepared to give the finaql £30 to puit me back in credit and allow mw to close the account- what the current tally is (allowing for charges on charges, which I have challenged other banks on and won) lord only knows)? They bounced the DDs and I do have a miscellany of notes issued which confirm no overdraft, as a norm for this "Cashminder" account although apart from the initial branch interview, I have no wriiten confirmation that a cheque book would not be forthcoming. Do we have a form of words ( other than the BCOBs letter to RBS) which I would use on an N1 which refers to BCOB. If not do you have any suggestions how I ease BCOB into the equation given that it originates from FSA and not statute - or do I have that wrong as well?

Thanks caro, but it HAS been an awful long time now - do we know what's 'on the boil'?

I opened a 'parachute' account with Co-op and was advised that I would have neither an overdraft facility or a cheque book. This was acceptable. I set up 2 direct debits to cover gas & electricity payments and the supplier began to play around with them and increased the demand rate saying they have my agreement (I currently have an SAR running to prove them wrong). Because of their attempts to take more cash then I could give, bank charges were generated. In order to receive their charges, the Co-op put me in overdraft territory. I raised this with the bank and they have refunded half the charges under the usual goodwill gesture guise. I am now aiming to issue N1. Should I? QUESTION: Do I sue (issuing N1 and continuing with the legal wagon train)for Breach of Statutory Duty and if so am I permitted to use BCOB in support on said N1? If so how do I phrase things and do I quote any national legislation in support? If we have no-one in CAG who knows then I understand (I know we're not GLC) but would really like to proceed with a positive indication that I'm doing things the right way 'cos I surely am going to have a go. There is only a small sum involved (costs will outstrip the sum in question), with this bank,but they are, to my way of thinking, "out of order" and an example needs to be made.