Yes I am beginning to understand the scale of the issue and it is fine to want to defend a principle - if you can afford to

That's part of it but to an extent the situation at the time meant it was done, but at no point did terms say your LPA Receiver could just add charges for doing nothing, whilst the Lender allows them to do it, whilst they also add charges for the same things, double bubble

- must be a degree of collusion surely.

Whatever it is it isn't ethical and also having unregulated LPA-R industry allows them to have many hats; receiver, property management company, professional fees collector, estate agent, property disposal expert etc etc all whilst needing no qualifications!!

Am currently involved in situation with a loan from Together whereby they have served default notice and appointed LPA Receivers - who are trying to push towards auction of commercial property that loan is secured on, which obviously we do not want to do.

Both the Lender and the LPA are not helpful in any way and the LPA is not acting on behalf of the Borrower given that the arrears is £1,600 and the figure the LPA-R wants is just short of £4k, and the Lender is charging another £2k for appointing him!

Statement of account lists various charges such as 'Property Company Management Charges £xxx Professional Costs £xxx (this was followed 5 days later by exactly the same item - and amount!)

I asked for an explanation of what these were for and proof of 'work' carried out when I know nothing has been done,

Together stated that 'the charges are explained'.

Eventually I have discovered that the LPA-R is actually the Property Management Company which is nice, and completely undisclosed by the Lender or the LPA-R who in theory is supposed to be working on the borrowers behalf.

On the statement of account, for the 27 months the account has been running, the charges on the account actually total circa £6,500 - with the receivers costs on top, so a five figure sum.

I was wondering if anybody else had encountered similar situation with regard to Together and their LPA-R of choice Waterfold, and if there was any advice as to how to deal with them and obviously challenge the 'plucked from thin air' fees?

'Could the claimants try and make me bankrupt when the debt was secured by a charge on property as requested? its a possible option but I doubt it ..the same a statuary demands..you cant issue a demand if the debt is already secured'

This didn't stop them before when they had a charge on the property yet still pursued the bankruptcy - which I didn't think was legal?

The questions I have are:

1) Could the claimants try and make me bankrupt when the debt was secured by a charge on property as requested?

2) If the answer to 1 is no,

then how can they be charging any costs when they have had nothing to do as the charge was there, although they continuously claimed that they didn't have a charge on the place even though it was there and visible, so therefore they shouldn't have any charges to hit me with should they?

3) Given the two above points, should the courts review this as surely it shouldn't have been allowed to get to the point it did, and also it led to issues with regard to my business being disqualified from being awarded a large contract as I had to declare any such issues.

Thank you

How can I 'assist' them to decide it isn't valid?

Fair point will study the link but I am still bemused how they can charge fees for something they couldn't do anyway! Will also see if can counter claim as well, thanks

No they haven't as yet the judge has said,

and I cant remember the exact wording,

that they can be discussed

- which was when they 'plucked a figure from thin air'

and which is on top of the full and final settlement figure they gave my solicitor over the house sale.

When you say they can't why exactly are you saying that please,?

The costs are for solicitors, letters written, telephone calls, work done on documents fees, court fees, advocates fees, process server fee (which we never had served and confirmed in writing by solicitors) counsel's fees. So pretty much normal solicitor's practise of charging for everything!

Given that there wasn't really anything for them to do once debt secured on house can I counter claim for them wasting my time which I expended by preparing for court and attending etc etc?

yes I have been chasing around and not thinking clearly so yes I agree - now need to deal with it properly and get it put to bed once and for all - so asking for help as have been a muppet

No a judge hasn't ruled on SD

The whole debt has been paid from house sale proceeds

The outstanding issue is their 'costs'

The Tomlin Order was before any charge was done, and yes they came after me for full outstanding amount once I breached the TO.

This then led to me securing the full amount against the house.

My point is the debt was secured at that point,

they registered the charge and still pursued bankruptcy route

- which they couldn't legally do?

Additionally they were asked by my solicitor when house was sold what was the full and final amount needed to settle this matter.

Got figure and made that payment so clearing the full amount of debt

- now have been hit with costs that apparently weren't in the figure and shouldn't even exist as they couldn't legally get bankruptcy order as illegal therefore 'costs' are totally spurious and a complete spoofing!

Yes what a 'lucky' guess that was!

I missed a payment on Tomlin and boom off it went - and not in a good way as you can see.

Was threatened with bankruptcy over unpaid debt.

Agreed to secure debt against our house which was on the market and would enable us to clear the debt (unpaid school fees).

The charge was placed on the house by the solicitors acting for the DCA mid 2016 so everything was as they wanted - or so I thought!

In spite of having the charge

they took us to court to make us bankrupt 6 times between them putting the charge on the property and a couple of months ago when it was sold and the debt repaid in full.

Each time they argued that debt hadn't been repaid so they should enforce bankruptcy

- even though I produced the Land Registry records showing charge existed yet no judge took it into consideration, maybe because I didn't have a solicitor representing me.

We have also, and the solicitor agreed that they hadn't, never been served with a Petition.

The hearing got adjourned several times and then they didn't turn up for a hearing so a judge dismissed the Petition,

they reapplied for a hearing because 'their mail management system showed they hadn't received the details from the court of the hearing' - obviously!

(If we had tried that one would we have been believed? )

When the house was being sold our solicitors asked for redemption figure to clear this matter, and another hearing was adjourned as sale was close, and on completion of sale the full amount was paid.

A week after the completion the adjourned case was held and although I thought why bother going as all done, I went and was horrified that they are now claiming £6k costs!!!!

How can this be and what can I do as this just never stops.

I thought couldn't be made bankrupt if debt was secured, which it was, and so the costs they have allegedly run up are for them to make spurious efforts to make us bankrupt when they could legally do that.

All thoughts welcome please

I was wondering if anyone who has, or has had, a mortgage with DB Mortgages has managed to get approval from them to port their mortgage?

If so when was this, what were the circumstances, i.e. buying new house or downsizing, and what were the criteria that they insisted upon. Also how long did the process take and were their any 'pitfalls' along the way?

I am asking as it something they say they do and which I would like to do with my mortgage with them. I am looking to downsize house, release some equity and with some of it pay a lump off the current outstanding balance, not increase the term but reduce the mortgage size by 30%. Dealing with them is never straightforward so thought would ask the users for experiences!

Thank you

To be fair some companies don't restrict you from seeking second charge and will either grant consent or not. Quickest way to find out what your companies do is Ts & Cs or alternatively ring them and ask what procedure is. The contract is between you and them so potentially you could have gone against it by not telling/asking them. if 3rd charge company have lied to you then you will have the proof of that.

Look at the paperwork for your 1st and 2nd ones and the Ts & Cs will tell you if you should have told them. If not you don't have a problem but if so, depending on the issues with your 3rd then make a call as to whether to or not, because if you should have informed them, (and I had to get their written permission first for other charges) and didn't then you are in breach of the contract

Hi Baz, the third charge company said they would notify the other two but would do it in their own time, and the other two would respond in their own time, so probably minimum of a month if they were going to do it.

If your third charge company don't notify them and they find out you could end up in trouble if under your contract with 1st or 2nd companies you have to get their permission for additional charges to be added and don't do that.

Thank you and it is something I am discussing at moment, but also looking at options

Just a quick update on this as have established that it doesn't matter how much 2nd charge is, they can refuse to allow another charge even if 1st charge holder has consented to '3rd charge'. Solution is to try and get 3rd charge holder to up the amount so that can repay 2nd charge holder and remove them from security which enables would be 3rd charge holder to become 2nd charge holder and thus have the security - albeit still behind 1st charge holder.

That's easier said than written - or done at the moment!

Sorry for late response only just seen you note!

Didn't go to court, as the school accepted my offer,

as part of that it was agreed that the court case wouldn't go ahead,

however Redwood/Harwood wanted to 'protect their client'

(as we know they are so good at putting the client first!)

and so the Tomlin Agreement was made.

Under that if I default on the payments they can apply back to the court to recommence proceedings.

I'm sure that they wont give up that easy - how many DCAs have you heard of letting the facts get in the way of them 'nicking a good few quid'? But we shall see I guess

I'm not convinced they have the architect as a client despite what they say

because if they had spoken to him they would

a) know about the ccj and

b) have added some amount of 'fees' to the amount of the ccj

- unless they are fishing and I pay full amount then they go back to architect

and say we have collected amount from debtor and we want say 25% of it as our fee.

Don't know if such a practise exists (!!!!) but wouldn't surprise me.

I wouldn't like to say if they were clever or not - although I think we share the same opinion!

On that can I complain to any governing bodies about both Redwood and CW Harwood

because they are misrepresenting the architect who they are portraying as their client

and are saying that they have instructions from him - which they obviously don't have.

Therefore misrep is at least one thing they could be 'done' for surely?

Yes I have copy of ccj now and the claimant was the architect,

and he didn't have solicitor he filled in the forms himself on line via the Northampton County Court facility

Funny you should ask that question because it made me re read the letters from Redwood and also CW Harwood - and neither mention the ccj! Redwood say:

We have been instructed by our above named client to collect the outstanding monies owed on this account.

TAKE NOTICE

Despite our clients' best efforts to collect the sum due, we are informed that the above balance continues to remain outstanding in full and without justifiable reason.

We are instructed to take all necessary steps to recover the sum shown, including legal action if required.

To avoid action being taken against you please remit immediate payment to us quoting reference to the address shown below.

CW Harwood & Co solicitors say:

We have been instructed by the above named client regarding the above-mentioned debt the details of which have been provided to you.

Our instructions are to write to ensure that you have full details of our clients claim. All payments and communications must be made only to Redwood Collections Limited who are our client's agent.

As you can see nothing re existing ccj, or indeed ccj that is now older than 6 years (expired?) - not sure what it means exactly or how it helps me exactly but no they don't mention it although must be aware of it.

Thanks