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Posts posted by billathome65

  1. I can relate to your issues of rowdy students. I was one. I hated school so once you are in the sights then you have your work cut out.


    Ok, when you did your training was behavior management a key factor to a pass mark if so, then I would revisit your training literature.


    What is school policy for dealing with disruptive students? Implement the policy, you cannot be criticized for following policies and procedures as your following the terms of your contract as I see it that's my opinion.


    I'm sorry but not knowing the process I cannot advise on the best way forwards can you do sabbaticals, refreshers etc?


    I would ask again are you on long term medication with relation to the management of stress, which, if you were to stop could make your mental health worse? If so, I would be seeking advice in relation to the equalities act. Go back to your GP speak to your union direct (not the one who has put the conflict in your way) a union rep is there to ensure policies and procedures are followed fairly and correctly and support both sides impartially and not as I see it make unfounded and conflicting statements. That's my view.) And raise your own concerns. Hard I know as the establishment close you down, but you have nothing to lose when you look at how you feel at present.


    Irrespective of that I would be inclined to re-address the fact that they have not followed their policies and procedures with respect to the meetings you should have had or provided the support they agreed to at the meeting 18 months ago.


    I understand how competencies can put you under added pressure, don't see it as a death knell, but use it to your advantage if they test your abilities, then they are also under obligation to put a package together to support you I would assume.


    Sorry I am not much use, but if you give more info then maybe the guys here can advise better.


    Hope it works out for you


    Regards Bill

  2. Christmas is treated the same as any other bank holiday - it's a contractual issue, not a religious one :)


    My bad I'm old school and was bought up on the idea of Christmas day being a religious day, which then lead to the crossover for the idea of Christmas day and a working day being interlinked. I personally see it as an attack on Christian beliefs same as Sabath working, but that's a different subject and only my opinion


    I should have said it's a Statutory Public / Bank Holiday and yes a contractual issue NOT Religious, but irrespective of that, he states that his contract says he has to work all bank holidays EXCEPT Christmas day so I think we would all agree that that covers him with his employer up to i would assume 12:01am on the 26th? I ain't legally trained so am only offering my opinion.


    Regards Bill

  3. Cheers for the information the question was based on a broad scope and not confined to any particular situation Emmzzi, it came up in conversation between one of our reps and a statement made back to him by the personnel manager that union rep was not me by the way but I found the discussion interesting as the union rep stated he had checked his information via ACAS so got me thinking that's all :-D


    Regads, Bill

  4. Please forgive any information or opinion, I may give


    I am not looking at any case laws here I will leave that to you guys that is i'm assuming what you guys do here?


    I base my information on previous experience and 30+ years of working and union knowledge.


    Opinions are like A holes we all have one, sometimes we need a tissue to wipe away what comes out, but hey if well meaning. then guidance is always a more constructive route. :|


    My experience/s may not be in line with others experiences? Or do not fall in with advice based on case laws. So, as not to get into a ongoing debate which deflects from the support you guys are giving I will leave the advice to you guys.


    I posted up originally a fact finding thread and got involved in other threads due to personal and professional experience/s and though hey maybe I can help.


    Now my own thread has been answered, I will leave you guys to the good work and pop back when I need some guidance and support from you good people.


    Regards, Bill

  5. We can all be practicing Christians, Buddists, Jehovahs Witnesses, etc. if we choose, we do not have to attend church to be true to our faith In my opinion.


    As for Xmas day it is my understanding that an employer unless you work in a emergency, carring or defense service cannot insist on you working on this day currently in the UK correct me if i'm wrong?


    People working in our company can choose to work or not work that day, however if we do not and it's our contracted shift we are required to hold a days holiday back to cover it.


    Any input given which has been incorrect, then accepted my apology


    Regards, Bill

  6. Hi Emmzzi fair points and all noted thanks for the welcome.


    In my opinion and from previous experiences with the above scenario to dismiss over a theft allegation without a smoking gun has lead to major headaches.


    We had a case some time back where the employer tried to sack one of my family members with an accusation of theft, however, due to the persistence of her rep they had to submit a full apology on discovering lies were being used and not for the first time to end her employment we felt due to her complex mental health issues which the company fail time and again to support with.


    Also, another case I dealt with where there was an allegation of theft / dismissal, which I had chucked out following an appeal due to a technicality of members working practices in store.


    Once again Cheers and points taken on board.



  7. Sorry, didn't realize it was an old post being new to the forum i'm just getting my bearings.


    Hi by the way Is that Bear Scotland V D Fulton If so I have it in my to read list:)


    I take it from the small bit I have read that the ruling was for the overtime to be paid that account for OT? I thought or understood this ruling was being contested?


    I may have that wrong


    Edit Drrrrrrrrrrrrrr just realized it was that ruling on the news last month. It wasn't specifically just Bear Scotland It was British Gas amongst others.


    Thanks Becky 2585 it just stirred the gray matter


    Regards Bill

  8. Little confused here If you have not been signed off work, then on what grounds is your manager refusing to allow you to fulfill your terms of employment?


    A GP note is only an adviser as the GP does not know what the employer can do to support your attendance. However, you were not given one.


    Threatening disciplinary due to time off due to an injury at work is prejudging and in my opinion bullying.


    I just don't understand why your boss is refusing your return to work unless you gave him something to be worried about and he is covering his back?


    Go back to your GP get him to do a fit note go through the return to work process and if they take you down the disciplinary route dispute it and take someone in with you who can provide support.


    I hope I read this right if not forget what I have written above.


    Regards Bill

  9. Already read but thanks for the FYI Sabresheep


    I was referring to the fact that an accusation of theft against someone is an explosive thing and to go in with the accusation without some tangible evidence is asking for a major headache. ( That's all I'm getting at sorry if it came over a little wobbly I was working last night and off tonight so m a little tired at the moment. )


    I am aware of the regulations around CCTV as we fight breaches of this at work quite often.


    I know I have just joined and am chucking my two pennies in I don't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way ( That would be a sexual harassment case against me, I suppose LOL ) just trying to be supportive of the group and hopefully learn stuff which helps me as a union rep along the way.


    Regards Bill

  10. I did not say absolute proof was required. ( I Know it's based on probability ( Your boss says to you, it's probable you stole my money, but i have no proof your sacked. :) I said to accuse someone of theft and sack them without any Ioter of proof is going to lead to a big headache. (I paraphrase)


    That's assuming the employee goes that far or just walks away Or if there is a rep or someone at ACAS, they could go to it's all ifs and buts.


    If It was me being accused I'd hit the roof.


    The way for the rep to represent is to cast reasonable doubt on the accusation. EG Did anyone else use the till/area that the theft happened etc

    That's what I was getting at it's what I would do

  11. OK going to play devils advocate here. You need to know the weaknesses of your case so you can fully evaluate your chances and thus whether or not their offer is a good one.


    Beware the test of reasonableness


    What is reasonable to you does not matter in the tribunal. Never a truer word was spoken

    Your agreement was verbal not to work with the supervisor. You need to be aware they can simply deny that agreement was made.


    Your grievance you stated was verbal too. Again, harder to prove. ( He said She said = Hearsay )


    Think very carefully about their offer. Seek proper legal advice is also recommended.

  12. Reasonable suspicion will not hold water here Becky2585 due to the nature of the suspicion unless there is concrete proof that this person stole the money they could claim unfair dismissal (and would probably win) And yes if they have been there less than 2 years they can dismiss without any comeback. But doing it just because you have an unproven suspicion is why I became a union rep.


    If someone accused me and sacked me for theft without proof I'd take them to the cleaners ( It happened to me when I worked at an arcade just after leaving school I was very naive and just left very angry as I had never stolen a penny in my life. In Fact the day before the till was down by £10 I had handed in £90 a customer had dropped ) I won't handle money now and I work in a supermarket :smile::smile:


    If I was reping this person I would be asking for proof to back up the suspicion I'd want to see all and any witness statements linking this person to the missing money and If this person was sacked i'd be advising an appeal.


    If you suspect this person has stolen, then go to the police or better still set up a hidden camera linked to your PC and leave temptation to get the proof.

  13. Glad you got it sorted and without the solicitor you would not have got a penny sorry to be so blunt.


    As a union rep myself, I was looking at your first post and agree that as you started in 2012 even given the new full time contract you should have been on as starting 2012 however, they could have ended your previous term of employment then started you on a new contract from 2014.


    Terms and conditions, if you started there after this date or that date they could amend your terms of conditions, however to expect you to work over 40 hours at normal time when others were getting time and a half would seem discriminatory unless the contract stated after X amount of months any overtime would be paid at time and a quarter then time and a half.


    As for the complaint they had about you they must be a great employer if you can do something when you are not even there that made me chuckle.


    Anyway, hope they pay off gives you a good Xmas.


    Regards Bill

  14. Keep all letters and anything where they actively discuss what they will do or say to get rid of you.


    Not knowing the details of the walk out all I will say is that they can state you went AWOL which should be dealt with under the absence procedure and fairly look at the reasons behind you walking out.


    He said, she said he said are all hearsay and should you feel that they will say they heard him say ( if you walk out I'll take it as your resignation ) Then you need to call their impartiality into question. If you ain't in a union contact ACAS for further advice.


    Regards Bill

  15. Firstly, Christmas day is a religious holiday and as such an employer cannot make you work it under current employment legislation. As you state your contract instructs that you are required to work all bank holidays EXCEPT Xmas day so there is your answer. 12:01am 26th should be your starting time


    You cannot be disciplined for following the terms of your contract. That's not to say they won't try if they do and you are not in a union contact ACAS.


    Regards Bill

  16. Stress comes under mental health and this is covered by the equalities act if you are taking medication long term that supports your condition, as is my understanding.


    If as you state you were signed off work due to stress caused at work, then you have shown that you have tried to support your attendance by consulting your GP.


    If as you also state you had a meeting 18 months back where you listed contributing factors to the stress related issues and the employer has not provided support to limit these factors and has refused to listen to recent concerns, then they are failing in their duty of care.


    Have they made any changes to your duties to enable you to do your job?

    The information I give above is based on the information you have provided and is reliant on your accuracy.


    To turn it back on you and state that (Citing behavioural issues as a reason that a class underperformed could be deemed to have failed the teaching standards and put you onto capability.) Is a cop out on their part, however not understanding how they reach that decision I am in no position to advise on that.


    I would advise that you contact the union yourself and possibly raise a grievance should you feel that the threat to put you on capabilities is a way for the school to not address the real issues of your mental wellbeing and the causative factors. Would you say this pupil is causing you distress and intimidating you? If so, you have a right to be free from fear in your job. Lets hope you get this sorted favorably.

  17. Hi lads and ladies i'm new here so first a quick HI!


    Now a quick question I'm a union rep so like to play with facts not hearsay and tales.


    Ok the question.


    A guy/lady is called in for an investigatory meeting on suspicion of X/Y. At this meeting they are not suspended and then a few days later get called back in front of the boss who subsequently fires the person.


    Now it's an understanding that if someone has not been suspended and gone to disciplinary the employer should not / cannot then dismiss?


    However, others say they have not suspended someone from work and then dismissed them without the suspension?


    So who is right? Should a person be suspended prior to disciplinary and dismissal, as you would assume that if a person were sacked it would be serious enough to warrant suspension?


    Or can an employer keep someone at work without suspending then dismiss them after say 5 days?


    Just an interesting scenario that came up in conversation.


    Cheers Bill

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