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Posts posted by billathome65

  1. Couldn't make heads or tails of last post couldn't pm you as your private message box is full and needs space clearing, so will just say either I have missed something or I have read all of this thread wrong. You stated in a previous thread they had done an investigation however the company then changed the reason for the suspension? I'm totally confused and this is now way over my level of understanding so will leave this with the resident experts.


    Hope you get this sorted


    A very confused Bill

  2. Hi, I respect your honesty and decision to put it on your CV whether you do or don't do that is a matter of conscience. If you are as good as sales as you state, then why look at a different career? Your record will speak for itself.


    If you choose to put it on your CV Put on that a poor judgement call led to you being dismissed and if called for an interview lay it on the line then.


    I'd be intrigued if I saw that on an application, but that's just me.


    So sorry for you, but hope it all works out.



  3. Hahahahahah thanks that have made me chuckle. She has asked her manager if she can split her breaks and her manager has refused, stating that she has to treat everyone the same? OK, so someone who has different needs to someone else is treated the same? Excuse me I can't eat nuts, I'm allergic to them, well sorry but everyone else eats nuts so take it or leave it Hmmmmmmm you got to love some people. This is opening so many doors it is quite amusing in a perverted sort of way. Will update this thread as needed watch this space. :-):-):-):-)

  4. Hi Rebel1 yes, I have gone over the links and discussed this with her (I will go over the links again to see if there is anything I have missed ) but she has got the mindset that they just want her out and this issue will be used by the company to escalate it above what it actually is and I can't blame her thinking that way after the way they have treated her over the years and how a simple attendance review has led to 4 reps refusing to do their role I can see it growing bigger body parts.

  5. Emmzzi I agree with you I know I could rep her, but to be honest, I am so angry at the behavior of the reps and the company that by getting involved at that level would not be wise at this moment in time and I am taking a more proactive stance rather than a reactive one so after hearing all that went on yesterday I have now primmed her so she now has notes written out and has been warned to refer to these notes at all time when she does get pulled in for her meeting.


    I was also informed by my daughter that the PM who has had direct involvement in this matter was going to be chairing the meeting ( That will not be happening) and she has been told that should they go ahead, then she has to make it known that she is doing it under duress and then not to answer ANY questions but state each time that due to process issues she is unable to answer any questions as she would be answering them under duress.


    Sabresheep Cheers that has already been taken care off, she has phoned the union office this morning and has raised a concern due to the fact that the role of the reps is to remain impartial and to ensure that process and policy are followed 3 of the reps have repped her in the past and on each occasion it was only due to the reps that she kept her job as the company have consistently fabricated charges against her I actually highlighted a glaring lie to her after seeing CCTV evidence against her which actually proved her innocence.


    The real issue here is that her mental health issue is such that the company need to be proactive and ensure any support packages that have been agreed to be put in place and acted upon at all time. On every occasion, this has not been followed through so leading to situations arising.


    She attempted to support her attendance this time, however the PM chose not to listen to options by my daughter to allow the support to happen you could say she was dismissing her duty of care.


    My daughter then spoke with a union rep who incidentally I have it on good authority that he overstated his professional boundaries with said vulnerable adult, however, I was unable to highlight this as it would have also jeopardized my daughters position too. But needless to say a smack in the mouth was the least I wanted to do.


    Anyway, this rep lied and manipulated my daughter into work by assuring her that he would pull a meeting together so my daughter could outline the possible support the company could give her. That lie has been witnessed by myself so I was also lied to (that I am not happy about.)


    As I see it having seen this progress over the years the company either do not want to or do not have the expertise to support her and so just want shut of her, but each time they do these things to her it just compounds her mental health problems ( and even had me doubting her version off events with previous issues which isn't right but after witnessing the underhandedness of these people I now back her 100%.) I see what it does to her and it angers me because Im her dad wanting to protect her but in many ways feel helpless which has a knock on effect with my outlook on the company ( catch 22 ) I am totally disgusted with the company and even angrier with the reps, however I have to work with these people knowing how they treat people and yes my daughter.


    She is looking for a new job, however she also looks after my oldest daughters kids taking one to school, which allows my other daughter to work so this is also impacting the family as my oldest feels it's her fault my youngest is in this position and i'm right smack in the middle of all of this :) :)


    I've told her that if they do pull another rep in from out of the store to put in a request for all of her files to be released to the rep I think it's the SAR???


    But to be honest, I personally feel that due to the actions of the reps in the store, this should be handled by someone higher in the union so the equality rep seems a good way forwards. To be honest, there are many metal health, employment support agencies out there that the company could contact and work with in order to support my daughter if they really cared about her well-being.


    Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I think the main points have been made.


    Sorry :)



  6. Bit of a twist there are 4 reps in store my daughter has texed to tell me, however none of them were prepared to rep her.

    They are looking to get a rep from elsewhere who she does not know which due to her mental health issues as left her paranoid as she does not relate to new faces with trust from the get go and has to build that trust, I am obviously not going to rep her so it's wait and see.


    She feels she has been left as a person with complex mental health issues feeling abandoned with the sharks.


    I have managed to settle her down as she called me from work and I could only suggest she contact the union office and raise her concerns and hope they can also put her mind at ease.


    As a father it sticks in my throat, however mental health is no excuse to take the urine, which whilst she has not done on this occasion has probably had a bearing on the fact that the other reps have backed off as she is very hard work at times.


    Regards, Bill

  7. As stated 3 letters you say state suspended for that issue, then last sighting a different issue. That's the basis to start building the case. He has his reasons for not doing the task, but that to be honest is irrelevant as if the last letter states suspended for something else the question of if he did the task or not is not why he was suspended, that's the companies mess up an as I see it there is no case (in my opinion) but it's how his union and your hubby deal with it that matters and all the other stuff re: email without date etc etc alternative job offer disability can be chucked into the mix.


    Fingers crossed and you end up with a VERY Merry Xmas and New Year.


    Regards Bill

  8. Move on you were not falsely imprisoned your contract or work policy will state you can be stopped and randomly checked she could have done a car search with you stood out in the rain :) She took your details has probably passed them on so wait till Monday and see what they chuck your way.


    Was that useful enough? If not, forgive me for reading. Oh, hang on I had to read it to see if I could give some useful advice. Hahahahaha Sorry :)

  9. I would also remove the last part about ignoring your resignation and would probably word it too.


    Following my initial meeting when I returned to the UK I was not thinking proactively as I was confused as to why the police had been called to what I felt was a minor issue where I was genuinely trying to protect my son as any parent would do.


    But also hadn't realized that we had caused a scene so possibly bringing the company name into disrepute.


    I panicked, never having been in this position and rushed into presenting my resignation, which I now accept that this may have looked as if I was trying to dodge responsibilities for my part in the unfortunate matter. Should the company decide not to accept my resignation and give me a chance to make amends I would be very grateful, however, I will fully understand should you feel my position has become untenable. At this point I would then ask that you accept my resignation without malice.


    Just a thought as in sales you can never be seen to be weak which is my understanding at least this way it puts the decision directly back onto the company without you loosing face as to be honest, I would do anything to protect my kids irrespective of age but works a bitch and family is an afterthought. And to be honest, why close down the option should they dismiss rather than accept the resignation, to appeal? Just my thoughts :)


    Good luck, keep us updated



  10. Hi to be honest, knowing the written details is not going to help me advise you further as I am not repping your hubby.


    You state the first 3 are letters stating he was suspended for X however the last states he was suspended for Y So I assume that's what they say and that is what I base my argument on if the first 3 letters don't say Suspended for X then my other statement above also stands unless anyone else can correct my understanding. Sorry i'm not avoiding the matter, I do not have the experience to advise further than I have already done and would suggest they are areas to build the case based on the information you have given.


    You have a valid point on alternative job offer which is in line with my thoughts why offer a different position if he is still suspended?


    Maybe some of the legally experienced guys on here can advise you more?


    The stuff I have already put I stand by so there are a number of things to take from the previous stuff unless anything I have written is incorrect but if that's the case the brainiacs here will be able to steer you.


    Lets know how it goes.


    Regards Bill

  11. Hi Emmzzi I appreciate your support.


    My daughter phoned work today to say she would be back on tomorrow, Friday in line with the return to work procedures. And the PM was confused as she stated she was told my daughter had sent in another sick note covering further month, which my daughter had not done and made the PM aware of this. So the PM had sent the letter assuming my daughter was going to be off long term confirming the error. She then proceeded to instruct my daughter that if she wasn't still well not to come into work? (Which then would have triggered the termination option letter. ) Hmmmm strange advice considering, in my opinion! Mind you I do not trust the PM as far as I could throw her. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the attendance review goes? So if there is any real update I will let you lot know.


    It was the letter by the way that got her worked up I told her I wasn't too sure on the letter policy so to speak, with the reps who have had first hand experience this advice in turn allowed her to settle and look at the issue more constructively. I posted up based on her initial feelings of it being threatened to get some clearer ideas from you guys and the stuff you guys wrote allowed me to take myself out of the picture and advice her better.



  12. It was a family argument, however it was in company time as you were away as part of work and had to return home early because of it. The company may feel your actions have bought the company name and character into disrepute and may be seen as a gross misconduct issued.


    I am of the opinion that the negative publicity the argument bought for the company has angered certain people within the company and want to push through their own agenda before you escape the companies grasp.


    You have no choice in my opinion, but to throw yourself at their mercy apologize profoundly state that you regret the actions and how this has also impacted if it has on your relationship with your son and that is why you tended your resignation and so don't see how dismissing you will achieve anything for the company or yourself.


    If they do then dismiss rather than accept the resignation I suppose there may be a an appeal case due to predetermination just a thought and sorry to hear this has happened.


    I hope the experts here can come up with something more positive.

  13. The first letters state he did X whilst the letter leading to the suspension said he did Y? Is that what you are saying I want to make sure i'm understanding you right?


    If the first letters were not formal suspension letters IE not saying on them, he was suspended for X but the last one was and detailed the reason for suspension, then they can argue the previous letters where initial fact finding letters and answers given lead to the suspension.


    If the 3 initial letters you say are suspension letters and they state they are not part of the discipline process, they cannot be letters stating the word suspension because if they had the line you are suspended because of an allegation of X that would indicate that they are part of the discipline so by it stating not part of the discipline that is not factual You can't have one letter saying you're suspended for X and another stating your suspended for Y


    If the first letters do state that he is suspended for X but the last letter before the initial fact finding interview also say he is suspended, but give a different reason, then in my opinion it's in clear breach of process. Hope this analogy makes sense, and has captured what I think is being said here accuratly?


    All meetings relating to alleged wrongdoings are fact finding meeting regardless of what they are called in my opinion otherwise why, if he is suspended already would they be meeting with him? And again If the first 3 letters are for a different matter and indicate he is suspended, then there is a good case in my opinion.


    Irrespective of questions asked If he failed to follow a reasonable request given by a manager that can be seen as gross misconduct so did he refuse to do the task or fail to complete either way you say that was the original premise for the ist letters as the allegation was changed in the last letter he can't reasonably know what he was suspended for. So my question is if he was officially suspended for X why was the last letter before the initial meeting stating a totally different reason for suspension.


    The email you talk about you say has no date on it. You can call that email into question and dismiss it as inadmissible unless they can prove it was done 6 months ago that's my thought your hubbys stance is how does he know it wasn't done latter on in the process as a way to make it look like the company were acting fairly. It's the company's responsibility to prove it was done as they say at the start 6 months ago, so the best way for them to do that is to show the date it was sent. As you probably already know, when you send an email it has the time, date, who sent it. If that is not present I would be questioning the authenticity of their claim.


    If you have written proof of another job being offered then that to me would indicate that options where being offered in order to bring the matter to a mutually beneficial close and if it hadn't been sorted why offer the alternative role?


    Anyway, all the info I have given above is just my opinion and I am sure the resident experts here will clarify substantiate or correct anything that I believe as correct.


    Regards, Bill

  14. Unless the union handle this right and do as they should competently this could fall flat on its face.


    If there is no wrongdoing by your hubby and the information you have given is as factual as possible, then I stand by the points in the previous post. with two changes in thought to points 1 and 2


    So at all other meetings all notes were done right with omissions rectified before signing?


    The aggressiveness issue by the rep thinking about it is a separate issue unless this was recorded in the notes that were taken, but copies would have been photocopied and so also have that note on them So I'm thinking that info was passed over as a separate matter so that's up to the rep and the boss to sort.


    I would honestly raise your concerns re lack of union support and guidance directly with the union head office and ask for fresh eyes on the case and get some legal advice it can't hurt.

  15. Hope you don't mind, but was reading this and picked up on a few things


    1. Additional notes state the rep was aggressive? ( There should only be one set of notes so if your notes do not state the rep was aggressively then you want to know what these other notes where? In my opinion. ) Surely if the rep was pulled in the office where note had been used to evidence the fact he was aggressive you're husband would have seen that note? Just chucking that in the mix.

    2. Notes had stuff omitted and in another interview stuff was added? Did you OH not read the notes fully before signing? and did he have a rep in with him at both meetings? If yes, why did the rep not pick up and act on this? It may be an idea to speak with the reps area organizer and get some support and clarity there.

    3. The Suspension letters must state the reason for suspension and if that reason has now changed, (If I read you right) then the policies and procedures and the case have been corrupted and should not be going further. (It Is my understanding that the reason stated has to be consistent all the way through you cannot change the reason for suspension if that's the case, then any interviews previously held would be irrelevant as the questions and notes would be for something else which they are now effectively saying didn't happen if that makes sense?) Please people correct me if I'm wrong here?

    4. If all emails are dated, but this one isn't, then it has to be inadmissible ( in my opinion) because unless the company can prove that the email was done 6 months ago why is it not dated? I would ask for the company to prove the email was done 6 months ago and call it into question I'd go as far as to actual insist that the PC holding the email be admitted into the case so that the date stamp can be checked. That is my honest opinion.

    5. Who informed you / your husband that the two bosses were having a laugh and a joke at the bosses investigation will they witness that? As it could be argued that the investigator was impartial again only my opinion.

    6. I think you said your hubby has a disability is this an ongoing or progressive disability which is covered under the EA?

    7. You say he was called in and told that he was no longer suspended, however, this was done informally so even with your hubby's notes to back it up they my say it's hearsay but maybe worth throwing in the mix? Just a thought.

    8. Has he got written evidence that he was offered a job elsewhere in the company. If so that can be used to show that progress had been made away from the formal suspension as they were offering him a job elsewhere (Don't quote me on that, but if that's the case and you have written proof) would be jumping all over that one (This is again only my opinion)



    It looks to me that the companies policies and procedures may have broken down and there is a case for your hubby please take the advice given and get intouch through the unions membership with a trained solicitor and get expert advice.


    Sorry if It appears that I have made assumptions here I'm only picking up and throwing some insights into the pot.

  16. that's not a threatening letter, its just honest! If she will be off long term - yes, they can terminate her employment. Isn't it better to know and be informed about it?


    Emmzzi she is not off long term she has been off two weeks in order to get her medication sorted out and her mood stabilized this was indicated in her doctors note, the doctor wanted to sign her off for a month and then review it however she requested two weeks, so she would not be leaving the company in the proverbial at the busiest time of the retail year should she need to take the time off.


    She had gone into work whilst signed off by the GP. and had stated she wanted to look at how the company could support her IE a simple thing like split her breaks more over the shift to allow her to take restbite, however the PM chose not to discuss options with her to allow her to remain at work. The union rep who was "supposed"t to be picking it up actually did nothing and left her hanging and vulnerable leading to her having to go of sick


    The normal process as is my understanding (Having not dealt with this as a rep myself) is to send out a letter after two weeks' absence to say hi if we can help you out let us know and keep us informed of your progress. Then a follow on letter in the vein of the letter she got first after a month as that would then be classed as long term sick. As the doctors note clearly have an end date and as she was not due until today to phone in and inform them of her return or further time off, which when you consider she had done a shift she has been of less than two weeks.


    Her mental health is covered under equalities act as without long term medication she has issues and cannot integrate or act correctly in socially stressful situations.


    The PM has assumed she is going to be off work long term without actually checking the facts.


    This letter is refering to her ongoing health issue IE her mental health, which incidentally she has never been off work over in the past ( except when she was suspended on jumped up allegations relating to her mental health ) that was the reason the PM had not passed it to OH as she stated when previously asked on the progress of the understood referral.


    So all in all it seems to my daughter it's been done in order to scare her in her opinion as she has had a number of issues with management in her 8 years of working there. Each time it has been shown that a lack of understanding and support or agreed support and in two cases total skewing of facts to support the companies wishes to "get rid of it's problem" from the company has been the contributing factors.


    She has engaged with the management by trying to arrange some additional support in order to support her attendance so that is an area I have instructed her to have recorded should she go to a disciplinary.


    As I have not had the chance to chat with other reps, I have suggested that when she goes back in she speaks to two of the other reps who have both had long term sickness resulting in letters sent and I have suggested she ask them if they got the same type of letter after the two weeks if not then she has a case to feel victimized, if not then she will at least know it's only the process

  17. Hi she was told some time ago that she would be referred to OH that never happened, however, this letter OH has been mentioned again.


    I am too close to this and to be honest have my own issues with work at the moment

    which have me in the wrong frame of mind to deal with this objectively.


    As part of my daughters mental health she can be difficult to work out she has a social personality disorder whatever that is

    and other issues and the union reps have exhausted their patience with her

    due to previous issues which incidentally she was always vindicated over,



    And my own experience in work at the moment have left me disillusioned with my own reps

    and questioning my employers commitment to my employment as I have had a number of very negative meetings with my own manager

    where he has tried to twist any issues or concerns back onto me and



    I am currently feeling very low but hey that's another issue :/



    I had considered putting this to our area organizer but to be honest I have little faith in anyone

    at this moment connected to my company so that's why i'm throwing this open on here.


    As for updating them, she will be returning on Friday but back to square one it seems.

  18. Hi brief run down.


    My daughter who has mental health issues (and covered under the equalities act)

    was signed off work with mental health related issues two weeks ago,



    however due to the time of year and the job she does I suggested she asks the company for support

    to enable her to keep herself in work (IE following company policy of supporting her own attendance.)



    However, it became apparent that the support was not forthcoming

    and she went off sick with the full backing of the senior manager.



    today she gets a letter from the personnel manager giving the normal drivel about wanting to support,

    but if the illness is going to be long term they may have to terminate her employment?




    1. She had attempted to support her attendance

    2. Senior manager was aware that she was going to take the time off

    whilst her medication and mental wellbeing were being sorted


    3. The sick note states the end of this week when she was looking to go back in


    4. The company didn't meet with her in order to see what support she may need in fact,

    she says that when she went in the union rep who said he was going to arrange a support meeting

    told her to just smile and get on with the job?

    ( How accurate that is, or if added to I don't know. )


    This letter has now caused further stress leading to a relapse and is in my opinion etreemily insensitive.


    As a union rep at the same place I am fuming,

    but need to keep out of it. So what are others thoughts on this issue what redress do others see?


    Regards, Bill

  19. Hahahaha soooo sorry about that strike that statement it was another post that somehow got mixed with this or my eyes playing tricks on me my bad Go back to sleep Bill:lol:


    Shhhhhhhhh I also saw some aliens :oops:


    If contracts state line managers do disaplinaries then if the two representatives he met were not "line managers" then that is a breach of policy. However, if they where line managers in the company the company have met that criteria in my opinion you don't say if the contracts state it has to be "his" line manager.


    If it was one of these same people who advised resignation, then it could be seen as predetermination as line managers would not be seen as impartial (that's only my view.) Especially if he was not advised by a union rep? Union reps balance probabilities and look at the best interests of the individual, however the member does not have to follow the rep's advice.


    Rereading with the brain working the Final written warning was for abusive language so was in force in this matter the question here is did he respond abusively etc or as stated apologetically? If the latter, then that can be argued, however without seeing the witness statements no case can be fairly heard so that is another strong card in the appeal. Everyone has the right to see allegations against them and in a case at our place, a guy who got sacked stated he had not seen all the statements at his disciplinary I was the one who rep'd him and as far as I was aware he had seen all statements I was given that's not to say the company withheld any I don't know but I believe he was awarded a substantial payout


    I'm hoping all works out in your friends case. And hope I have saved face Rebell11 Hahahahahahaha


    Regards Bill

  20. Hi Bill, I don't work in the same company.

    She's really peed off about this modified email that started everything.

    I already told her that it would be nearly impossible to get the non modified email but I wanted to check with you guys just to make sure.

    I think she's upset because a lot of people received this initial email and nothing else, so they think she's taking the Mickey and stealing.

    Personally, I would send the CCTV footage to all people concerned and let them know that there was no wrongdoing from her part, especially the alleged theft, and then drop it there.

    What do you think about this last option?


    As Emmzzi said she may as well just paint a target on her back, What loss was incured except for a bruised ego? she has proved her point, so the question should she send a copy of the CCTV. Nothing will be achieved IMHO, so I would just chalk it up as a bad experience and move on.


    If as you say her company are getting rid of people for the smallest thing this incident may have done her a favor in away if she looks at the bigger picture Ace's up the sleeve are better than an empty hand Anyway it's here choice but in my opinion I'd just move on.


    Don't know what others think but that's Just my view

  21. My two pennies as a Union rep. I think the union rep gave sound advice to drop it. ( Just my view after reading this. )


    OK. Yes, there has been wrongdoing and that has upset your friend, but your friend has now shown all allegations to be untrue and vindictive, so no matter what is on your friends file this is easily addressed should other unsubstantiated complaints be made at a future date. What is your friend hopping to gain from now perpetuating this issue Monitory gain Suing? What is the person likely to get from putting in a grievance. If it was such a minor disagreement at the beginning, then rise above it now and move on. You say the company does everything to protect their managers hey, good look to your friend in suing which, if the original emails are in your friend's possession will be easier to do if not forensic investigations of HDD's etc. Will be required (who's going to pay for that independent service for what would be seen as a minor issue? I personally would draw a line under all of this and just move on because I cannot see the union taking this any further, except for maybe to mediate for the removal of any mark against your friend from their records.


    If your friend is not looking to be a trouble causer as you say Id suggest you just pat your friend on their back and just congratulate on proving all innocence.


    And as you seem to have strong connections in this matter if you work at this company and are not already a rep why not put yourself forwards at the next elections and support others at the same time.


    Regards, Bill

  22. Firstly, if he went to disaplinary he was entitled to see all witness statements so he could read fully understand an if needed contest anything he may disagree with.


    The final written was for a totally different issue and although it can be used I think it should not have been used in relation to this matter in my opinion.


    The guy has worked hard and kept his head down for the past 10 months, so an incident involving three others who receive a final written warning lasting three months in comparison to his 12 month with him being dismissed does seem disproportionate which can be used as part of his appeal as there has to be consistency to be fair.


    On dismissal was he informed of his right to appeal? If so, he will have a set time to appeal and should have received a form to highlight his wish to do so.


    You state that when he was being shouted at he did nothing but apologize, how do you know that to be a fact? Did you witness the incident or did others provide witness statements vindicating him? If so, then why was he sacked? If no then it's his word against the three colleges.



    Paragraph removed due to failing eyesight and my mind playing tricks on me


    Whistle Whistle Whistle did anyone see the paragraph Shhhhhhh Rebel11:-):oops:




    All the information given above is just my opinion based on what I would be looking at

  23. Ok address the depression and relation to equalities act with the union rep to see what they say and remember if you are not happy with a rep you can ask for another, but give this rep a chance (Oh, and speak with the GP) Other than that I feel I would be doing you a disservice advising further as I do not have the legal knowledge or access to practices policies and procedures of your services. The information I have given is just my opinion and there may be legal or policy factors I am not aware of.


    Good to see your following process and hey, if they don't comply you have done what you're required to do.


    Keep us updated and I hope things are sorted favorably for you

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