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Posts posted by billathome65

  1. Hi Emmzzi the company have actually fabricated what they felt would get rid of her and the reps have supported her accordingly by highlighting and addressing the alleged facts against my daughter. Yes a lot of work, however only because of the twisting of facts by others.


    Example: daughter suspended for the theft company claimed information daughter asked for was not available which was the area making their case. It went to disciplinary decision and they had all the paperwork ready to record dismissal, however, after a final insistence that the information daughter wanted would be available, they went and looked then came back red faced as the information showed two things 1. Money disappeared days earlier than alleged 2. My daughter was not in work her manager knew all this and was withholding the info it is alleged.


    Another example: daughter accused of refusing to return to building to press the buzzer after following others out who had also not pressed allegation was that security had asked calmly for her to return to the store daughter stated he was shouting at her like a child and being aggressive she felt intimidated by his behavior and that's why she refused to return. The company dismissed her accounts and were threatening dismissal as its gross misconduct, however on gaining access to video records it clearly showed the security in an aggressive posture, shouting and pointing his finger, he through items across the security desk and this disproved his version of events again the company had stalled to provide evidence asked for which vindicated her each time anything happens her versions of events are totally dismissed in favor of more damming facts.


    Anyway, she was told there would be no additional meeting so it's out of process, and was given the copies of the emails which I need to read through objectively. It has been stated by OH and this is only based on a one sided argument from the PM that my daughter is unfit for work and should be instructed to go back to her GP. However, she has not been removed from duties by the managers as indicated in the OH email so again they are failing in their duty of care My daughter is just leaving them with it because as far as she is concerned she has done nothing wrong.


    I'll read the emails and advise her further.


    Regards Bill

  2. Hi her psychiatrist meeting was put back till July by the hospital however this has now been brought forwards till the end of January.


    She is waiting for a call from Remploy with the view of an employment support adviser working with her and the company.


    The concerning thing here as I see it is no attendance support procedures where followed by the company they have actively tried to discourage her from being in work knowing that this would support any plans they have to get rid of her.


    There is also this new issue of the area organizer not sorting a replacement rep which leads me to suspect that something more under handed is afoot here. ( call me paranoid lol ) one hope is they are just incompetent however if it's more sinister the wife as a mental health nurse has access to solicitors dealing in mental health law.

  3. Well a bit of a twist today she should have had her review meeting today the one the 4 reps refused to support her with so the plan was when they pull her in to call me so I would go and rep seeing as the area organiser didn't arrange another rep How predictable this was becoming.


    Here's the twist, she is pulled in to NOT a review but is read an email from OH stating that ( and I paraphrase until I see the email ) due to her mental health problems she may not be able to continue her employment????? OOOOOOK this coming from the fact that PM sent OH an email and without even seeing my daughter they make this statement I thought OH had to actually see a person and assess the person in question before concluding????


    Also OH suggested she goes back to her GP. and follow his direction?? The deputy manager then tells her to go back to her GP and get a fit note theres no way the GP will do this and she has been back in work for the past 2 weeks without them showing any concern so what they hope to gain from such a ridiculous instruction I don't know. So whats going on here give me a logical workable break down on this guys and girls.


    I told daughter to insist on a copy of the letter the pm sent OH and a copy of the letter from OH she asked for both and was told that the email from OH has details of another person on it that they need to remove???? I thought this was a email to do with my daughter so I wounder if the email will read like they are just removing someone else's details or removing something derogatory. If it looks like the email is just taking something out they don't want her to see as it may be deamed derogitory If she does a SAR will she then get to see what is actually on there?


    Watch this space and throw me your breakdown on this twist. BTW they tried to pull her in without a rep last week and so she put her phone on record and told them she was recording it which sent them into a panic :) the PM was called in who started spouting off about Data Protection Hmmmmmmm how does that work there is nothing in the policy to say she can't record and it's her data ( again Hmmmmmm )

  4. Well oh just about to phone solicitor. Has just got the notes which, if it wasn't for the fact that our livelihoods are at stake would be absolutely laughable. The bloke should really of gone into fiction writing as a career! Grrrrrr I am sooo angry I've never seen such blatent victimisation in my life!


    So I take it the company notes don't match with the OH copies? Hope the solicitor was productive



  5. Did you email HR stating you were withdrawing consent or was it a verbal conversation? If verbal then you have no proof of the request simple as that unless HR admit wrongdoing. Obviously, if you emailed then that's covered.


    Were you referred to Occy health or was it your own request if it was work, then they probably felt they had good cause to send you.


    If Occy health have made statements you don't agree with then you are within your rights to challenge.


    You also say the outcome you wish from the grievance is to have the file removed? Why? You say you went due to personal stress and depression which i'm assuming you accept otherwise why go?


    Occy health has compiled the report based on the facts from the meeting. I understand you say you were vulnerable when you went however, had you been a member of the union they could have supported you. (But irrespective of that you could have taken a colleague in with you.)


    I personally would use the meeting more productively and express your concern with the points you do not agree with and look at what support the company can give you to alleviate the stress etc and agree what you can do to support your own well-being to.


    Regards Bill

  6. Give them a time limit for getting the notes and see if they tally up with your OH's copy. You also want to see the original email they have had long enough to get you tha, and contact a solicitor that come with union membership. I would say this is way out of any reasonable process and if I was the rep i'd be looking at chucking this all out. I would also look at raising a grievence against all involved in the investigation due to unacceptable delays, miss-management of process and failure to conclude the issue as now it looks like the company are acting dishonourably as an employer causing stress etc etc. Just my thoughts.



  7. I must apologize, you're right, I shouldn't PM my thoughts about how it will be interesting to see if they provide the email with a date stamp, and how I'm glad the support given on here by everyone she feels has helped her OH regain some confidence.


    I felt Jody and her oh needed some moral support as well as practical support. However, you seemed to assume that by saying thoughts, my thoughts were to do with an opinion or two that may be wrong? The op started the thread in order to get practical advice and as my signature states anything I say is only my opinion. I am not in a position, nor would I give advice privately that could not be supported and or addressed as incorrect. That's why my opinions are in the threads and not hidden.


    If I have helped a little in anyway, that's what matters. It seems that based on the advice and opinions on the thread she was able to prime her oh to such an extent that he could factually challenge people who had eroded his confidence and self esteem.


    I say well done to them both and her oh can at least hold his head high.


    I thought i'd send that thought privately, as a bit of encouragement.


    :) :) :)

  8. The meeting will be next week as I read it. It is another hearing "or it's not" they don't need to have a meeting to say it's going to a hearing they could just send a letter advising on when a hearing was taking place. It's all long winded in the NHS if you ask me :) :)


    Meg&mog took the time to respond to some questions, so it's only polite to highlight glaring areas as a rep I would be advising and suggesting a member on if it does go further. Lets hope it doesn't but what's the harm in throwing some ideas in the mix just in case, what other things may meg&mog be addressing?


    Chers Bill

  9. Sorry for the late response.


    1. Ok, this mystery nurse the patient said came in who you think was your daughter two ways to play that one. 1. If she wasn't confused who was this mystery nurse that no one can track down? 2. Could the mystery nurse the patient said came in have been enter your daughters name here _____?


    2. Has anyone stated they heard your daughter say any of the stuff to the nurse who made the allegations? If not which i'm assuming that is hearsay and inadmissible unless it can be verified by an independent witness.


    3. She needs to call the other HCA's change of statement into question and insist that as the statement was changed what leads them to assume that

    1. The first statement wasn't a true account 2. The HCA wasn't cohersed into changing her statement. 3. By accepting that the 2nd statement is in fact a true account your daughter cannot have a fair, unbiased meeting so the statement should be disregarded on the grounds that there is doubt over the truth.


    4. It is claimed the patient was not confused Your daughter has the notes which say factually that she was.


    5. The nurse has to do notes within the shift and at the end of the shift was anything recorded at the time to say the patient had been un-cared for treated inappropriately? If not, then it would stand that if the nurse has actually written fully detailed and accurate notes so are they calling the nurses competencies into question if not how is your daughter being treated as fairly as others?


    6. Two people were accused of inappropriate behavior, however, only one was moved of the ward how is that treating each equally irrespective of how many unsubstantiated accusations were made against your daughter they both were accused of (A) so why move one and not both?


    7. Why, if only a few people were involved in this investigation and a statement was given by the patient has it taken so long to get to this stage.


    8. You say the patient's statement was written by her daughter how do we not know that the daughter didn't influence her mother and tell them if the patient was so sure of the facts tell them to ask about the mystery nurse again as your daughter feels she may have got her confused with a fictional nurse as she went in the room after the other HCA and the nurse.


    That's some things for her rep to be getting on with that's what I would be concentrating on.


    Regards, Bill

  10. 1. Should have it in writing that it is going to disciplinary and the exact reason. Her rep will know all of this.

    2. Check timeframe for dealing with investigations as if it is out of process this can be used (unfortunately I don't know what the process is in hospitals) but they will have a timeframe for each step and as the patient has died since their statement cannot be cross examined ( If they made one? )

    3. As advised in earlier threads the lateness of the allegations can be addressed as nurses are duty bound to report incidences immediately not after the facts. IE days/ months later if that's the case, then the nurse has failed in their duty.

    4. How long after did the other HCA re do the statement?

    5. As the other HCA was also reported why did they not receive the same treatment as your daughter or where they investigated and cleared?

    6. Retrospective in my book is a get out to cover the fact that the person has changed their statement, and to me brings into question the reason for the change? Makes no odd's what paperwork it was done on it was a statement. if it does make a difference then that is a failure of the investigation process and should be thrown out and inadmissible ( as I see it ) was your daughters statement done on the "wrong paperwork" If so has she been requested to change it over??

    7. The other HCA has remained on the ward and so may have also been influenced to change their statements.

    8. Has your daughter ever been accused of similar actions If no then this needs to be highlighted.

    9. Who from HR told your daughter the case was dropped? This may be hearsay, however worth seeing why your daughter was wrongly advised?

    10. You say that the patient was recorded as having hallucinations the night of the alleged incident this can be highlighted as investigations and outcomes are generally based on probabilities in the event of no clear substantial evidence.

    11. Did the patient have a Urinary track infection? As this can cause hallucinations I Believe ( my wife's a mental Health nurse and deals with these types of things)

    12. I note that there are different dates above for different accusations do these relate to the same person July, Sept and Oct If so, why are they split over different months rather than isolated to the one day?

    13. If the matron states that she spoke with your daughter in July re rough handling was this recorded in her notes? If not, then why not as the matron is duty bound to record everything in case they are called up at future dates to answer question to the care complaints commission or a coroner ETC. If it was not recorded, then it is her word against your daughters.


    They are just some thought, but please read the signature below

  11. Area Organiser off work today, however he has been contacted and should be in touch with her tomorrow.


    A simple AR due to the rep refusal turned into this fiasco? Anyway, after trawling through hours of literature this will now also involve grievances against reps re dignity at work, manager and PM re dignity at work and failing to comply with EA. A grievance against PM for failing to follow company attendance support procedure leading to this situation. Oh and a separate grievance against the PM who my daughter was informed by another manager that another role for her in store must not be offered to her due to her mental health issues, whilst unless co-oberated this is hearsay it is not my daughter's place to prove this allegation all she will be doing is highltghting what she has been told.


    I Knew this was going to grow legs. :mad2:


    Anyway additionally to this I contacted the local disability employment liaison team via email on Saturday they contacted my daughter today advising that Remploy were contacted and stated they would act as a supporting agency for her, however she needed to be referred via the disability advisor at the local job center as she meets their criteria she called the advisor who is off until tomorrow so fingers crossed all goes to plan.

  12. I'm angry at how she is being treated and know I will not remain impartial that's the whole top and bottom I'm uncomfortable with what's going on here. However, if push comes to shove, I will rep her. Knowing the way the company has been with her previously, I can see this turning silly. The AR is a standard process, but the reps refusal to do their task at such a basic level leads me to believe that this is going to grow legs and this then puts me in a difficult position.

  13. Ok daughter has been told her meeting will be held next Saturday irrespective of whether she has a rep or not as the other reps will not rep her, depending on the information she receives from the union area organizer it may fall on me to rep her which I am not happy with for obvious reasons. This is only an AR but could lead to disciplinary so it's in her interest to ensure she highlights he attempts to support her attendance and failings of others etc.

  14. Yep, that's the bad boy and yep, that's all she is asking for, bearing in mind she is on trollies the only female in the company who does I believe. she works the busiest days and it can get stressful when she is on her own to clear the whole car park. She again asked for her breaks to be split today and was allegedly refused, saying the request was not reasonable as the store is busy. She said she just wanted the splits so that if she needed to take herself out of a situation affecting her mental health she could to which the reply was you can do that as you walk across the car park I don't think that was witnessed, though and my daughter didn't follow my instructions with regards to responses in order to show that her manager was not cooperating with respects to making reasonable adjustments I need her to follow my instructions in order for us to build her case. She was also told that she was not allowed to leave if the car park was not clear at the end of the shift as it's her responsibility to do so, however my daughter did tell her boss that had she provided support earlier as had been promised the car park would have been cleared and as such unless they were going to pay her overtime she was leaving. her manager tried to bully her into staying however the store manager was close by so she spoke with him, he was not happy and told her she wasn't staying and to leave I also believe he then pulled her manager over the subject. So at the moment she is waiting to speak with the unions area organizer and I will be instructing her to insist that a rep who has full knowledge of the dignity at work policy and the equalities act is assigned. Thanks Sabresheep.

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