Quick version - i did not renew our tax credits for 2014/2015 as our circumstance has now changed and we wouldnt need nor qualify for them. Got a letter few weeks ago saying we had been overpaid, for the entire 2013/2014 claim, so 4.5 K In addition apparently an extra fine of over £1 k because i did not renew the claim to inform them i did not intend to claim any longer. I wrote back to them right away and asked them to explain how they worked all this out and also to dispute their decision. no reply to my letter, but got a new letter today basiaclly ramping up the debt collection side, saying they will pass me on to a debt collection agency unless i work out a paymnent plan I called them up, and they said yes they received my letter on Oct 23rd, but all enforcement action against me carries on regardless of any appeal or dispute. Apparently they wrote to me in the spring asking for more in depth details of my work, but i never received this letter, and thus when i did not give this extra info they decided my whole claim was thrown out .. and then also decided i owe an extra £1100 for not renewing. I spoke to a very obnoxious young man on the phone today who basically spoke down to me like i was a naughty school child. I told him i had written to them to dispute it, and he basically said " how can you dispute it if you dont know what your disputing " ... it was like banging my head against a brick wall with this kid. horrible little thing ! anyways, i have had to agree a payment plan with them... after reading the forums here i have sent an SAR to them but they just e mailed me and said they have 40 days to get back to me, in the meantime im guilty until proven innocent apparently. surely all this can not be right at all ?? guilty until proven innocent and even in that case not given a timeframe to prove my innocence

Thanks sincerely for your kind words. I hope i have done enough too. I really appreciate your help. I will update in due course and let you know how it goes

No my family can not help me with it. I honestly can not break it down that way. I just do not have the information to collate it. any of it. I wont contact the LA either. I just can not do so. I have done nothing wrong deliberately. I have paid FAR more into this crooked system then i have ever asked back. thousands of times over. I appreciate the advice, but i have written to the appeals tribunal outlining my reasons for not attending, explaining the case history as i see it, explaining my well documented health issues etc. I have also stated that if the appeal is not successful i will accept that and discuss repayment terms with the LA. If they choose to prosecute me at that point, then i will fight them with all that i have. I feel so strongly about this, that i would rather DIE fighting then ever admit guilt to them when i know i am not guilty. If they want to prosecute me then i can not control that, but i will fight them, and if they attempt to take away my liberty, then i will fight them with every last breath i have. " I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more " I am sick to death of living in fear, allowing them to keep this anvil of dread hanging over my head. i have done nothing wrong, yet they try to make me feel like a criminal. I have paid hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax in my life. I have survived losing my business, my home, all my worldy posessions, i have survived sleeping rough, a total nervous breakdown, a severa case of shingles that nearly cost me my eyesight, and ive have survived the horrific death of my loved ones, so i refuse to live in a false paradigm of fear for one more second. Thanks so much for your concern help and advice, but i'll do this my way now, and if they make me die by my own sword then so be it. I will post back here to let you know the outcome of the appeal, and any subsequent action or lack thereof in the future I woke up this morning and the sun rose as it does every morning ... i breathed and realised the sheer miracle to awake every morning, born anew, blessed with conciousness and the simple joy of living. They can never take that away from me, and i will never let them

hi Caro i have not received medical help for my issues. I have a paranoid issue where i cant go to the doctors. i havnt been since 2009. hard to explain without you thinking im crazy i just want to avoid prosecution now. i cant handle the situation and i cant provide the kind of detailed financial breakdowns needed. if they prosecuted i would have to hope that my story is pitiful enough that it can be seen i did nothing will ill intention nor deliberately, and have suffered severe mental health issues after previously being a person of high standing and good character / economic productivity. i never claimed benefits in my life aside from 2 weeks when i was 20, this is the only kind of handout i ever received and i honestly thought i was entitled to it and didnt do anything wrong on purpose.

Hi Estellyn many thanks for your reply The LA already have all my bank statements, they are in the file they have provided for the appeal. I honestly would not be able to do a financial breakdown as you suggested. I lead a very chaotic lifestyle in 2009- up until last year to be brutally honest. I have ,shall we say, self medicated a lot through all my problems. So they have all the bank statements, and thus all the evidence already. I just today re-read through everything. not sure why i though it was 26k, its 14k. not sure if that makes any odds. At this stage im so stressed out by it, i would prefer just to agree to pay them back and be done with the whole thing, its been hanging over my head for years and i just cant cope with it. Im desperately trying to turn my life around and this is a weight on my shoulders. Im so scared i dont want to contact the LA. I just wrote and sent a basic letter to the appeals stating my mum was giving me money as i had previously told them, and my dauigher was using my bank account. I appreciate some might not be up front on here, but i was definately not running an empire .. i did try and make some money and that will be traceable, but it was not much and we lived close to poverty the whole period in question. So ... taking into account that no new evidence can come at the appeal, do you think id be best to let that run its course, and then if it fails, try my best to agree a payment plan .. i have the fear that my appeal with be rejected, and at this stage, i just want to avoid trouble really, and avoid a prosecution.

hey .. they have never said one way or the other if they intend to prosecute. I just re read trough everything and all i was ever told was the standard " you need to pay this back. please be aware that paying this back does not mean we wont necessarily take future action, which may include prosecution " I just feel that after all these years of this, if they had enough evidence to prosecute me successfully, they would have tried to do so already. I just hope I am correct on that one. I am going to write a letter to the tribunal as you suggested, and not attend it. I did opt for a written hearing anyway, and its the benefits office that wanted an oral hearing One other thing i noticed from the evidence file that they have sent to the tribunal .. they have included things on me from AFTER my claim ended. claim ended mid 2012, and they have stuff about me from late 2012 .. ie, where i was making money and a media interview i did for some freelance work, but these were six months after the end of my claim. I also note that when i started my claim originally i told HB that i was received donations / payments from my Mum. its in writing and signed by me that i was received funds from a 3rd party, and also that my wife was self employed but not making a great deal, and thus out only "official income " at that tome was some working tax credits my wife was getting.

hey neeseyboy, im trying to figure out the exact same issue myself. can't seem to get a definite answer on it

I can't afford a solicitor

sorry to bump this up, but im terribly desperate for some advice. can anyone help me?

Hi there thanks for the kind words. to clarify ; 1.1) When did you Start a claiim for housing Benefit? late 2009 2) When did your Housing Benefit claim "End" early 2012 3) Were you or anyone else in your household working or receiving income during this period my wife was self employed, claiming tax credits. her income was quite low. i did have some undeclared income, but not as much as my bank statements would suggest 4) Was this information declared? no it was not declared to benefits. the whole time period is a bit of a haze for me now. i had suffered a massive nervous breakdown. proper walking the streets in your pyjamas talking to the birds kind of breakdown. i tried to take my own life several times 5) What are the discrepancies they have raised which imply you should not have received housing benefit? undeclared business activitiy. in addition to being a failed businessman i am also an artist ( dont laugh ) they know i was selling art work i had done online basically. 6) Did you notify the local housing office of change of address? the change of address was after the claim had ended. five months after claim ended i moved house 7) Did you receive benefit whilst at your new address? no . have never claimed a penny from any source at all since then. that was my only experience of benefits in my life and it shall be my last. as i said, the whole time period from sort of 2007 - 2011 in my life is a crazy haze, from when my mental health problems began, and my business' began to take its toll on me and go down the toilet. i have niot claimed any kind of benefit since the Hb claim ended. not JSA, not HB, nothing.

sorry for the double post , one final query im looking online about civil penalties, and i just read that "When can a civil penalty be applied? For a civil penalty to apply the overpayment must: have occurred wholly after 1 October 2012, " the alledged overpayment in my case is from 2009-2011. my claim ended in early 2012. does this mean the period in question is too long ago ? im confused! honestly there will be a period within my claim period where they could argue i had income i did not declare, but not anywhere near the whole period. so this is all from a claim from late 2009 until early 2012, and its been back and forth letters for the last 2 years, and is only now going to an appeal. i might be being too hopeful in thinking, if they had enough evidence to prosecute me they would have done it a long time ago.

thanks for the reply, i'll try not to leave the thread open whilst keeping hitting " refresh" i realise i have remabled somewhat and my post makes me seem slightly illiterate, but im mega stressed out and grammar is the last thing on my mind! thanks in advance for anyone who can give me any advice.

hey all, any advice greatly appreciated . Long story so i'll give the abridged version. 2009 - i lost my business, house, everything. my dad who was a director at the co. with me died of a massive heart attack due to the stress when we were losing the business. i had a nervous breakdown, was very ill,severe depression, mental health issues. got shingles, went off the deep end basically. after never claiming anything in my life i made a housing benefits claim .. meanwhile my life was still in tailspin. no clue how i came through it. 18 months later my wife had a heart attack , and developed massive ( still ongoing ) health issues. housing stopped my money. they said they needed to see all my bank statements etc... we moved house then, and i started to finally get back in track ( 2012 ) , apparently benefits had been writing to me at my old address. late 2012 - benefits wrote to me at my new address, inviting me for an interview under caution, i declined to attend. still have ongoing mental health issues, suffer anxiety , and cant cope with public places and people in general. i wrote back to them telling them this . they said they wanted a massive list of info from me. i didnt provide it. they wrote to me, said 'cos i didnt attend or provide, they had decided the whole claim was an overpayment .. its £26,000 !! i kept writing to them, asked them to re-consider .. they woiuldnt, so i asked to appeal few weeks later benefits sent me the file they had compiled on me. it had all sorts, bank statements for myself and my wife .. my step daughters bank statements. google info on me and my previous company / career. i had worked in the entertainment industry before my mental breakdown, and so as with most in that field, its easy to find some rubbish on google that paints you in a bad light. they said i had undertaken commercial activitiy which i had not declared, and had made money i had not declared basically. to be fair the bank statements do show money transactions. i was told there would be a tribunal hearing, but that was 9 months ago. this whole thing caused me many sleepless nights, but as with everything in life, you learn to adapt and carry on with your life. i was hoping they had changed their minds, or .. well i dont know , but today i got a latter with a tribunal date of 15 dec. i had previously indicated i would want a written hearing due to my mental health issues and anxiety .. but apparently benefits have asked for an oral hearing. so this letter is for an oral hearing. i know i dont have to go, and honestly i couldnt go. i would fall to pieces before i even got into the building. what im trying to determine, is if the tribunal appeal fails .. will i be prosecuted ? or will i just be offered the chance then to work out a plan to pay off the overpayment ? attending an oral hearing is just not an option for me - i have a feeling, or a thought, that if benefits had enough concrete evidence against me, they would have prosecuted me a long time ago, but this has been dragging on for over 2 years now surely if they had enough on me to prosecute, they could have done it one or two years ago .. i am not in the greatest financial position stil and our run of horrific happening sin our lives has continued, with various horrific deaths and such in the recent years on top of everything else. i feel lucky to be alive and able to type this message, and had finally put all this to one side to focus on rebuilding my mental health, but that letter today has freaked me out so yeah im rambling .. what does anyone think ?