Whilst your probably right, unfortunately i'm meant/have to go through their complaints procedure,stage 1 & stage 2 but have merely stated in the complaint what was taken from me unlawfully, and quantified it & justified it together with supporting documents, but without any other costs, such as legal, court, further loss of business and which, IF legal proceedings start, will spiral out of control, with more than likely the same result! However, i have also taken proffessional advice, who suggested i have to give the council an opportunity to resolve things 1st, considering it's quite an old case and can be classed as an abuse of process, if legal people get involved straight away!

I just have to find the right way. I'm sure they do have SOME sort of obligation to assist. I wrote to Mercedes sometime ago, raising a formal, however they wrote back saying they acted within the law. Like to know what/which law this is......Anyone have any idea? May just have to re open the complaint with them, and ask them a few more in depth questions,( ANY SUGGESTIONS???) in particular the law in which they are referring.

Thanks...... i was of the same undersatnding. But, i did inform Mercedes the next day, to which they said...as it's a pcn issue which is easily resolved by paying a fee, they don't usually get involved. However, they were contacted in June 2012, by EA, couple of months later and asked for £6000 to release the car for un paid debts. Which they refused to pay. But they still didn't force the EA to return it, even though they apparently asked them to return it to me. Already in motion with the Council process, to reimburse me with a like for like car, or it's equavalent in value (21k), loss of business up to end of hire purchase agreement from the time it was taken (18 months at the minimum daily rental rate) i guess i could have have charged for anything up to a max of 10 years loss of business, but giving them a incentive to settle. I'm sure there are many more costs i could have added, but i'm just sticking to the basics at the moment, but will be a different story if legal proceedings start. Keep you posted.

Hi, i'm quite sure they are in breach .......somewhere, just need to find the right angle on it!?? Any advise would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks!

Who are/is OP?

TT I think the Finance company recovered the car from the bailiffs for a few hundred pounds and it was the Finance Company that sold it. Several questions arise from that. 1] did the Finance Company have the right to sell the car without a Court Order as over half the payments had been made 2] what has happened to the proceeds of the sale-has any been paid to the bailiffs 3] if the bailiffs only accepted a few hundred pounds from the Finance Company then that would not even cover the towing cost and storage fees for 7 months let alone the PCN and bailiff fees prior to the seizure. If they are not pursuing Mercedes does that mean they have accepted that they were in the wrong? Hi, yes you are correct, Mercedes sold car via main stream auction. 1. It was a NON Regulated agreement, and the car was financed to my sole trading business, and a declaration has been signed by me to the effect that i aknowledge that i will not have the protection of the consumer credit act 1974, and therefore apparently a court order is not required.....Not to sure about that! Anyone know?? 2.Not a penny has been paid to the bailiffs, after car was sold. (prior to sale, Mercedes stated the settlement amount was £26,023.28 in December 2012) This is what they wanted in order to return the car to me. 3.Your right...The £300 paid by Merc's repossession company was not for ANY debts, but APPARENTLY for a new battery and diagnostics, as the car had been standing for so long, it would not start. This is what they said in a recent email, however, it was probably some sort of cash in hand/backhander payment... between bailiff company and another repossession/enforcement company!!

Enforcement company NEVER sold it. Whilst they asked Mercedes for payments 1st for £6000 and then finally 3 months later, for £4500, they refused, and Mercedes, apparently threatened them with legal action if the car was not returned to them, as HP agreement was in default, and they proofed they were the rightful owners, and were not resonsible for any debts. Ultimately, Mercedes's repossession company were told to liase with Newlyn, and negotiate the return of it. They paid £300 to release the car into their custody.

Had the car 18 months exactly and paid a total of £9544.48. Leaving me a debt of £9378.48 after car was sold in December for £14500 exactly.

Hi TT, Just for the record, it states that my agreement is a hire purchase agreement - non regulated. However, it's actually a PCP (personal contract purchase agreement) from Mercedes, on their Agility product terms and conditions. It CLEARLY states, that the HIRE period is 36 months, with a GMEV (guranteed minimum end value/optional purchase payment) of £16050.....which is the baloon payment , if made then i would have owned the car. If NOT, you simply hand the car back and don't make any payment. As if you were just renting the car. The hirer is also meant to be restricted to doing 8/10/12K miles per year (10k miles in my case), must service the car at Mercedes, and maintain it in good condition/repair. (Same as a contract hire agreement) Is there anywhere i could see Judge Mains report?

Good luck Just hope the evidence is enough to derail the expensive Barristers Newlyn will throw in, and their clients are exposed for the lying bullies they are. Thanks brassnescked....... I'll do my best and keep you guys posted as i hear anything. Appriciate all your help and support.

I didn't reach the decision lightly. Yes, i have all relevant documentation and more, to proof what i've said and what happened. Hopefully it's enough!

Hi tomtubby, Complaint sent to the appropriate court. Hopefully here something soon. Will update here, as it progresses.

That's my worry too about making a complaint about the bailiff. I guess the worst that can happen is the Judge will dismiss on it being raised late, or he/she could allow it. As for the LGO, i've been on the phone with them, and their time limit is usually 12 months from the time i became aware there was a problem, however the guy said they also can use their discretion and hear it, depending on the seriousness of the complaint, but not get involved until a have a final response from the council. As for civil action against the council, i think i'm with time limits? And making a complaint to the LGO doesn't affect this, as far as i'm aware.

Well, they were aware that car had been seized, but did not agree to the sale of it or anything else, but didn't turn up the pressure on the EA until the HP agreement had defaulted, however the car was bought on HP and financed to my business, and without it, i would no doubt find it difficult to keep the payments up, which they should have been aware of, but at the inital contact stage they chose to take a back seat. So maybe they also have some responsiblity to this mess? Any suggestions?

tomtubby thanks for your help. Even though i haven't read Judge Mains report yet, i agree with you, he must be confused, regarding the issue of HP, and a car bought on finance. The LGO report i think is very clear, the law is quite clear in what goods can be taken. I do not have a doubt about this, however do you know of any time limits to raise the complaint? I may well end up getting hit with costs, but this is something i need to put closure to, one way or another. As for suing the council, i am in the process of thier complaints procedure, and await a final response. May well need a good solicitor, if you know any?

I'm sure you have.... but surely not for pcn's, for a council? Private/Commercial debts probably, through High Court i'm guessing.

Whilst you could be right, and it makes sense that checks cannot always be done in real time, i proofed that the car was on HP at the scene, in front of the police who attended. But,I also read that a fair time to allow for checks to be done, dvla/hpi is 14 days, i think 7 and half months is more than fair! As for EA, liasing with the finance company in order to sell the car to pay off debts, subject to equity, i think that would be a breach of contract on the finance companies part, as it would take away the chance for the debtor to ultimately own the car, after making the final payment. In my case, the bailiff company contacted the finance company, in June, 3 months after the car was taken, and the asked them to pay £3500 for storage and other costs, the finance company told them they are not resposible, and to return the car to me. Just for information.

Yes it is a mess, and i want some closure on it, one way or another. How much is/how much would you class as an excessive levy? Thanks

Hi brassnecked, thank you. I have this information, but his licence is not up for renewal until Nov 2015. But if all other avenues do not proceed, i will go down that one. Would really like to know if there is a time limit on raising the complaint?

Hi, even with the new provisions in place for complaining against him, the fact that the car was there held for 7 and half months proofs that all parties were aware it was on HP, otherwise the bailiff company would have tried to sell it to recover costs! And the car was worth £19k,(subsequently sold for £14300 in December 2012, at auction, 8 months after car was taken) a far greater than the alleged £6315 the bailiff put on the seizure notice.....surely this is an excessive levy? He should have known better considering all his experience in the business. Does that not put his fitness to hold a cerificate, into question alone? Also it was financed to my trading as business. I am also looking to issue a civil case against Harrow, to replace the car and loss of busness, as they are no doubt ultimately responsible for who they instruct. However the bailiff concerned is still working for Newlyn, and i think should be punished for his actions. I lost my business partly as a direct action of his, and if he thinks he can get away with, maybe he will do it again, or has done. I will obtain a contract from Harrow council reagrding vehicles on HP, but in a recent report by the LGO they have made it perfectly clear that vehicles on HP should not be taken, and the council have agreed that all bailiff companies should do a DVLA and HPI check prior to removing the car.

Hi, No pcn's were paid, however i made representations to the council/tec, 6 moths prior to the car was taken, and included a copy of hire agreements/copies of driving licences, which covered the periods when the pcn's were got. No valid warrants at the moment. All have now expired. For the one the bailiff marked down on the seizure notice, i have a copy of it still, that actually expired one month after the car was taken. No reason given intially for the reduction in fees by Newlyn, but always told to deal directly with the bailiff, as he is in charge of the case. I was back and forth from abroad due to a death in the family, but everytime i was here i contacted the bailiff, only to be told to pay different amounts. The fact he would not give me a breakdown of the fees and for what pcn's it was for, and the lowest amount he demanded was £3000, i did not trust what he was saying. I also got a notice in the post from Newlyn, 2 days after the car was taken requesting i pay £1200 which at the time did not make sense, as it also did not give a breakdown of fees. To be honest, i really believed the bailiff was just trying extortion tactics, and was trying to get any amount out of me. I was also partly in the wrong for not dealing with the situation more promptly, however my head was not fully there and i didn't have anyone who could deal with the car hire business whilst i was away, not properly anyway. Yes, i also contacted Harrow council during the 7 months, they reverted me back to Newlyn. But i went through all the outsatnding pcn's with them, only to find out after the car had been taken that the warrants on most of them had expired. I have email confirmation from TEC for this. So they were given me wrong information as well. Thank you

Hi, was thinking if the term form 4 is obsolete, then there still must be a way of complaining about an enforcement officer. Does anyone no the way and also time limits to raise the complaint? Any help would be appriciated. Thanks

Ok,...3rd April 2012 my Mercedes 60 plate with a value of of £19000 approx, which was subject to a hire purchase agreement,and was a car solely for my business, as i owned car hire business at the time, was unlawfully levied on, clamped and subsequently taken away for a few outstanding pcn's. At the scene, i showed the hire agreement to the bailiff, he stated that he could still take the car and had had authorisation from Harrow council. He demanded i pay £6315.90 in total of vat/pcn, but mostly bailiff fees. I asked him for a breakdown of everything, and told him there was no way i can pay that amount of money, especially as i had made representations to the council/ TEC. After nearly 6 hours, i got fed up and called the police, who attending, but favoured the bailiff, and said i would face getting arrested if i did not had over the keys. The car was taken away to their storage. The next day i called Newlyn,told them that the car was on HP, and faxed them a copy of the agrrement. I was told to liase with the bailiff, which i did, but got continually messed around. He said that the minimum he would accept to release the car was £4500. However due to a death in the family i had to fly abroad 3 days after the car had been taken. At this point all the payments on the finance were up to date. On my return, one month later, i got in touch with Newlyn again, only to be reverted back to the bailiff. He was now demanding £3000. To cut a long story a bit shorter, the car was held illegallly for 7 and half months, whilst i had to travel, and due to my business not doing too well, i could only afford a further 3 payments on the finance, up until July 2012. Eventually, in November 2012, i got in touch with the council, and faxed them the hp agreement, and the follwing day, i got a call from Newlyn, saying they want to return the car, but still want a payment of £500, for the removal of the car and a few days storage, and also to stop the finance company not repossessing it! I told the guy on the phone i had lost a lot of business, and could not afford to pay, and besides thay had taken illegally and should return it. Ultimately, they got intouch with the finance company and requested a payment of £4500 for storage. Fianance company apprarently threatened them with legal action if they did not return the car to them as i was now 3 months behind on the payments, and they had defaulted the agreement. In the end, finance company paid £300 and recovered the car. At the time the car was taken i had paid £10000 off the finance, and was left with a debt of £9700 after the finance company sold the car in Decemeber 2012. Hope this clarifies things a bit better?

Thanks