Yes, this is my point! But how do you deal with rural areas where they have converted an old barn or an old warehouse into something like a museum or a place of public interest where coaches have not been catered for? Basically, where there isn't anywhere but a car park to go... if I dont have any small change on me and the alternative is to move down the bottom out the way as best I can, what else are you meant to do if you literally dont have the £1.20. Nothing but run the risk. Then you have to argue that you wernt parked and merely stopped waiting for your passengers. I was hoping to find anyone that mighthave been in a similar poistion and been forced to argue that they hadnt been parked because they had not left the vehicle unattended and wanted to see what happened..

And that is the question... waiting/stopping/parking.... there are blurred lines. Intentional lines I might add but still cause confusion.

You're doing it again! If a bus stop is restricted, it has to be labelled as "local bus stop". No other restrictions actually legally restrict a bus stop as you describe. You guys may send out a pcn but its the vehicle...not the scenario that permits a bus stop and its use. You are trying to change the bus stop to a restricted bus stop by putting lines, clearways or pink fluffy pom poms on it and called it restricted but in reality, you issue a pcn for a 12 seater minibus or a coach and it is issued wrong and will be successfully challenged at the TPT. Its because you are restricting a bus stop using the wrong method. It has to be labelled a "local" bus stop, only then is it restricted. But the council generally wont let them do that because it is "too" restrictive and generally it is reserved only for the inner most parts of city centres.

Of course I have read it, we get bus lane contraventions all the time in work... by people in councils that are given some element of authority and they ticket willy nilly. That's why our TM deals with them and bus lane offences he has never lost one. Your authorities may be credible (and indeed convince otherwise innocent drivers to pay up) but in law, they are wrong. The RTA definition of bus trumps all of your above points. The TPT always uphold our challenged PCN's because council officers just don't know the law as you have clearly demonstrated. You seem to think that regulations from different sources trump that legislation I haven't read because it doesn't exist..... but it doesn't. Thank you for your input to the OP though, I originally asked about car parking tickets but it ended up on a debate about bus lanes, bus stops and registered services. What you have done is illustrate exactly why most people end up paying... you have cloudied the waters with "stuff" when the original rules trump your authorities...the rules all bus and coach drivers were taught. "Daft" coach drivers actually know the law but cant give a legal authority. Council workers don't know the law, give a weak authority that bamboozles the driver (as he knows they are wrong but cant give an authority) and you sit there all proud with yourself that you have won when the reality is you haven't... you have just bamboozled a driver that knew the law but had no authority. Isn't this the reason why councils issuing tickets in the first place exist? Innocent drivers that cant afford legal redress and end up just paying anyway? We always win in TPT. We have had several bus lane infringements that have gone all the way in the 4 years I have been here. Most don't..most get dropped at the 11th hour. Those that run the risk...lose. Why? Because the RTA trumps anything else out there, whether you accept it or not.

Section 15(9) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines bus as "bus” means a motor vehicle that— (a) has at least four wheels, (b) is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers, © has more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, and (d) has a maximum design speed exceeding 25 kilometres per hour; This is primary legislation and it is the long definition of a bus. Any other legislation is inferior to primary legislation. This is the authority that permits a coach/minibus to use a bus lane or a bus stop, clearway or otherwise. Why? Because the minute a council labels said item with the word bus, this opens up the definition above. Argue amongst yourself, you are wrong on your application of bus stops and bus lanes. Its nothing whatsoever to do with the type of road or lane r anything....its to do with the vehicle using the thing.

No, that's just not right. A coach can stop in a bus stop as long as is necessary to puck up his passengers if he can show he isn't being unreasonable (they are due our anytime now according to his instrucrions). So long as he us in the vehicle, any pcn issued is unlawful....whether YOU like it or not. You seem to try and distinguish the labe/park/stop but you are missing the authority that allows that vehicle to be there...the vehicle itself. If its a bus, it can do anything unless its a local bus lane/stop...whether you find an authority or not. It's law, not by-law. Law wins over by-law.

And like I say...its the use if the word bus that's the problem. They can't change the word bus even though they all try. This is why most wardens and camera operatives send unlawful tickets out, they don't get that the word bus is not defined by any regulation, TRO or other...its in the Road Traffic Act and there's nothing they can do about it.

The RTA is the Road Traffic Act and it defines what, legally, is a bus. As I have stated, the minute a council use the word bus, so long as its not a "local" bus lane or stop, a coach can use it and there isn't a thing a statutory instrument, regulation or otherwise can do about it. I don't know the exact section number off the top of my head but ill get it for you later if needs be...

Secondly, any road marking, stop or anything you want to label that has the word bus in it allows a coach or a 12 seater in it, use it or whatever. It can only be restricted by using the word "local" in front of it but these are highly political as local bus lanes are often empty and motorists expect coaches and even mubibuses to be in them...hence why they are not used much. Only inner inner city roads tend to get them...

Maybe in your council. Don't suppose your authority for this is a TRO by anychance?

Even TRO's can't change the bus lane or bus stop definitions as the RTA defines them and that's primary legislation whereas TRO's are tertiary legislation...

That is inrelation to clearways though, not bus stops or bus lanes.

A minibus can stop at a bus stop as it satisfies the definition of bus. You are wrong, as previously stated, check your source. Only "local bus stops" are restricted to registered buses and as said above, mostbus lanes or bus stops are not local across the country as a whole...

Check your authority. The requirement isn't that the vehicle is on a registered service. You are talking about "local bus lanes", not "bus lanes". Local bus lanes are very rare, I only know of a handful nationally. 90% of bus lanes or bus stops are open to even a 12 seater minibus as the RTA and the Highway Code define a bus as any vehicle with 9 or more passenger seats.....and that's it. No mention of registered routes unless you are in a local bus lane. I have this regularly with wardens. They struggle to distinguish beween 2 important differences, local bus lanes is one, the other is the difference between a taxi and a bus. Taxis are never allowed in bus lanes but 12 seaters are, regardless of whether passengers are on board or not.

and the word car can confuse, especially if coach is not even addressed in the terms. By calling it a car park, rather than vehicle park, it seems coaches should not be in there...yet they are rarely excluded...