Thank you for that. Is this past performance of ATOS of some years back, because I thought they had been told to be more reasonable recently - you do paint a dire picture of them of some years back. Anyhow, I've already had a home visit by ATOS for ESA a few years ago, wouldn't that count for something? I'm now in the ESA Support Group. Also, wouldn't ones doctor's opinion count in this?

Thank you all for your advice. I'll mull over the implications of it all. Does everyone get a F2F with ATOS, or whoever, or is it judged on an individual case and may be deeded not necessary in some cases? I assume you are asked to phone by being sent a letter? Is there a time limit on doing the phone call, set down in the letter? I actually expect my PIP around Xmas and so hope to play around with it a bit and avoid the postal thing that Neword had.

I assume you got a letter asking you to phone? I have heard that if you can't deal with answering questions over the phone you have the option of doing this as a form. You didn't read any offer of this in the letter you were sent that I have assumed you received? What was the point or purpose of the phone call; or what kind of things did they ask?

I'm just trying to get the chronology here, how the process works. So the F2F with ATOS was the initial start to the PIP process and then the PIP2 form followed? Or the F2F with ATOS had nothing to do with the PIP procedure but was to do with something else all together?

So that begs the question what is PIP1? What's the process in all this? I have read or something that there's a phone call first.....?

Could you expand on your post please. F2F with who? The person who helped you fill in the form or ATOS type people? And how does the 3 hours relate to this, where does it apply? And can I ask what area is your disability in? Mines depression and less physical; though that's changing. Thanks.

What is PIP2 ???

But I would have thought in this hi-tech world once they were digitized that part could be removed....??? TO ALL:- The reason I wanted to see the form was because I had heard it was large. However, the government site one is only 20 pages. I've done the form for DLA a few times and that one, from memory, is about that size. Are the two claims' forms similar in size, format, questions asked etc?

Thank you all for that. I expect the form in 6 months time. I found the government form online but it seems to be rigged so it can't be copied. I'm surprise no one has scanned their posted one and put that up on the net. I'll keep looking on line for one that can be downloaded. No form in the links etc. on this site from what I can see. PomBlue

I expect to get the PIP form fairly soon and it would be good to view it before it arrives. I usually copy these forms to do a trial run and have a copy for future reference. Is there a copy of this on-line anywhere for me to download?

No. I'm looking for a legal or technical term that brings into question an expert's or institution's statement in a court of law because of their past record or success in their specialist field. I'm not looking for help per se in my present situation. I saw a lawyer on TV mention this as it was their job to do background checks on people/companies trying to sue the company he worked for or discredit them and stuff like that. If an opposition has a poor record then they carry less weight in a court of law - there are doubts about their claims. I thought he used a legal term for this but it was before my present situation so I never made a mental note of it.

Sorry to trouble people with this but I'm looking for any technical or legal terms that relate to the following condition. I'm due to go to court and this would be useful to make my point clear. It relates to experts and people representing institutions etc. giving evidence or statements in court. The validity or weighting etc. that their opinions are given to a case is related proportionally to the integrity, probity and track record, conduct etc. of the expert or person representing an institution - how they are seen in their professional capacity. An example of this would be the IMF etc. who recommended that the UK should join the ERM; which was a flop, and for us to join the Euro saying if we didn't we would become an economic backwater - which we 'certainly' did, the Euro being such a resounding success!!!....... NOT. Now the IMF et al are telling us to vote to remain. On their past track record their recommendations would been seen as highly suspect. So for the situation of a court is there a technical / legal term for a witness' or expert's credibility due to their past performance and conduct etc. which would affect the validity and weighting of their statement?

Not too sure if this is the section to ask this but.... I'm on benefits and I'm in the ESA Support Group and I've been to court and received what the police said was free legal aid but there were some forms to fill in on this, to see if I am eligible, at the court. There was a mix up on this as they didn't say why they were asking about my benefits and the forms were incorrectly filled in. My situation is that I have gone over the £16,000 threshold which stops the actual benefit payments and was wondering what the rules are about how much you need to have, £-wise, to not make you eligible for legal aid? Please note I have to do this at the library so if there are any questions it could be some days before I reply.

Antone "but you should inform them ASAP if your capital changes at any time." From what I gather from your earlier post (which I'm thankful), what you mean here is if it substantially alters due to some significant outlay other than bills etc, yes? It will be altering all the time as I'll be living off it as I'm too sick to do any work.

That is not what I'm saying. All I want to know is what are the rules about dealing with this at this stage or end of things, as I don't know , and how to deal with it when I reach or go below the £16,000 threshold, as I believe it steps down in £250 lots. They often either don't give you any information or tell you the wrong info because the person telling you don't understand it themselves but wont say this. And getting this out of them is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

I assume this is for the local JSA? If so they may have got things wrong or their system has. I also assume the letter makes no reference to your son being on ESA Support Group? If so, what I would do is either phone and ask if this letter was correctly sent or copy the letter and state on it that your son is in the ESA SG and query the validity of the request as you have done here on this site. Let them clarify the situation and not try to second guess them. I was put on the Work Programme but I complained because I had clearly stated on my ESA 50 form that I couldn't attend things like this because of my depression. The form is a legal document and as I had signed it I protested why they had put me in the ESA WRG. I was put in the Support Group and taken off the Work Programme. However even though the people who ran the WP were told about the change many many times they kept on sending me interview requests and other mail. Recently I got a letter requesting me to an end of WP (it last 2 years) interview at the JSA. Even though top management of the DWP had dealt with this even the government system had me down as still on the WP right to the very end. If it looks wrong, assume they are wrong, give your reasons and make them clarify the situation.

To Everyone. Thank you for that. I'll watch how I spend it so as to not be caught by the 'vague' rules they seem to have on this. The only thing I've paid off was my mortgage which was the only debt I had. I mentioned this when I rang them up to tell them about this and nothing was said of deprivation so I guess doing this was ok, but we'll see. This still leaves me with a sum over the £16,000 and knowing what 'nutters' they are I thought I'd just ask about how to approach them when I send them my statement as proof of all this. I gather then that my situation will be assessed on an annual basis and so proof of status will also be on this? I know asking them for details rarely provides any adequate forthcoming info.

SabreSheep I have heard about this before but like you, or as you imply, I'm not sure what constitutes in trying to impoverish oneself. Paying off debts could count?

I've come into some money and I've gone over the £16,000 threshold and I wonder whether there were any non-obvious do's and don'ts here? Also, I believe that the step down from £16,000 to £6,000 is done in £250 steps. Does anyone know how this is managed and handled? One could easily make that step in paying a bill. Would I have to continually be posting off proofs that I'd reached the next step level or is it assessed on a set interval time frame?

Your MP should have received an adequate response by letter from the JSA/DWP which he/she would then have relayed to you in a letter. The JSA/DWP letter would then have a phone number and an address you can use to further your case if you were not happy by the response. This is what happened for me for my case and the letter I wrote to further my case got me into the Support Group. These are (I'm in the London area so they may be different for you?) Genna O'Connor at Glasgow Northgate Benefit Centre on 0141 207 0543 or DWP Director General, Operations, Noel Shanahan, PO Box 50101, London, SW1P 2WU. If you are not in the London area then you could ring O'Connor in the hope of getting your specific area details. What I found was that it is these people who actually have the clout to get things done and those below them are just pen pushers just following the rules so ringing O'Connor can't do any harm. Actually, rereading your OP I'm not too sure my post is too applicable. Your issue seems to be one of time and of having to wait? To get a home visit you will need a doctors note which they will ask for in due course when you request for one. This site doesn't seem to have an erase button for misdirected posts.

Thank you for that. When I got the form I rang DLA people to ask if a PIP form would also be following shortly and I was told no. I was also told that the full roll out or nationwide implementation of PIP would be from Oct 2015 but that it would be more likely that I would get the PIP form around 2 years after that. I have long term depression problems so the fact that PIP is more favourable towards these conditions is promising but I have heard that they are looking to force people into therapy of some sort, though I forget the details of this.

I listened to an old (July 2013) recording I have of the Daily Politics on what I had logged down as being on PIP, but they kept on using the term New DLA, as well as PIP, and saying that it will be tougher than before. I couldn't tell if the people talking were just being sloppy in their language use or whether this was an accurate statement of the situation. My situation is that I have just received a DLA form to fill in and am wondering if the assessment of this DLA form will be more rigorous than before (five years ago) and whether I should give attention to this to dot the i's and cross the t's more thoroughly. And if it so, can anyone tell me how they may be more strict in the way they will assess the form this time so I can be more informed about what I'm facing?

Thank you for that. Sorry for the delay things haven't been so good recently.

Many thanks for that. "And it's no longer unusual for return of ESA50 (to Atos) to receipt of award letter/disallowance notice from Jobcentreplus, to take upwards of a year." I think I know what this is saying but terms like award letter/disallowance notice are totally undefined for me, mainly because the JCP doesn't provide such headings to their letters (not that I've noticed). Is this statement of yours to do with the first time you fill in your ESA50 or does it include subsequent filling ins?

A nice useful post, thanks. "In some cases, especially those transferring from Incapacity Benefit, ESA is awarded without the need for the medical." - Actually Income Support. A letter I got when complaining to the JCP outlined the chronology of my ESA claim and said I had achieved the points required (is it 13?). With regards the filling out of future ESA50 forms the first section about physical abilities etc doesn't really apply to me as am down with chronic depression but have clinical depression (this does affect me physically with things like fatigue and endurance and so on). Do I really need to fill this section out if I put a note covering this? The other thing with this is that I wrote a 5 page letter to some top bod at the DWP that got me into the support group. Can I not just attach this to the form with perhaps some additional hand written notes on the form (I realise there are other parts that will need dealing with but just as a general thing)?