Hi everyone, I have a question about regulation of DCAs. I have a payment for an Old MBNA credit card set up with the "new" owners as IDR Finance UK Ltd (4 years now). Servicer is Link Financial Outsourcing Ltd. As IDR Finance are no longer authorised by the FCA are they allowed to still own a regulated agreement? Or does the fact the the servicer: Link Financial are still authorised (although not the owners) mean that everything is OK legally? I know Link and IDR are run by the same organisation/people but as far as business is concerned they are not the same company. Many thanks sidley

Thank you very much theoldrouge, I will do that, as I think it's the best advice I've received so far. Many thanks sidley

Thank you ericsbrother, Our own house is worth approx £350,000 (next door house was sold 7 years ago for £315,000) so the equity is just over 2/3 of the house. We will also inherit from my father -in-law (97) at some point in the near future. We have thought about downsizing, but with all our elderlies so old and frail we fear we will be balancing selling with dealing with 3 funerals!! We already feel stressed out at the moment traveling 100s miles per week helping them out together with still holding down full time jobs. Would it be advisable to stress this to the bank, to throw ourselves at their mercy so to speak? Cheers

Long winded explanation. Our mortgage of 25 years comes to an end towards the end of this year, when we will have to repay approx £100k 2 years ago our life endowment policy was ended by Phoenix Insurance (not originally with them but numerous acquisitions they ended up with it). The reason for ending it - they had had to use money from the pot to service the policy. We complained - they agreed that it had been mis-sold and they refund the difference between a standard life policy (life only) and the money we actually paid into the policy over 23 years with simple interest added. This came to just under £15k instead of the £80k we were expecting to receive at maturity. Not happy with that we complained to the FOS, who said we had a case. Their decision was an extra £435 on top of the original offer. They agreed that the policy had been mis-sold & mishandled (we had a riskier life policy rather then the standard endowment one), but that this was all we were entitled to. We said we were not happy with that as we were going to use that money to pay off the bulk of the mortgage. The ombudsman said he would refer it higher up the chain but the result was the same. He said we could go to court ourselves but the judge would take into account the FOS decision and the likelihood we would not win any substantial increase plus court/ legal costs - we would end up worse off. After taking free legal advice, we felt gambling and losing more money was too risky so, we decided not to pursue court action. now we have only £15k to pay towards the mortgage. We will have to put a credible plan to the bank to reassure them that we will be able to pay off the mortgage very soon. There is no delicate way of putting this, but I think you will need to know everything to be able to help me. I never thought I would be in this position. The only thing that will enable us to pay off the mortgage is that my wife and I will soon inherit a substantial amount from our 3 remaining parents (all in their 90's). I realise that this is described as a "potential asset" in the financial world and not an actual realised asset. When my father died 11 years ago I inherited 1/2 his share of the house, with my sister the other half, which by todays assessment of the value of the parental house (minimum of £600k quick sale) is approx £150k for my share. k This was frozen whilst my mother is alive or wants to continue living there. He did this because my father was worried that my mother would live a long life (she has) and would need to go into a nursing home (she hasn't) and all of the money, if he left it to her, would go in nursing costs leaving my sister and me nothing. After the turmoil of my fathers death, I was given a document from the family solicitor, stating the above, but over the years I don't know where it's gone. I recently contacted his office which has been taken over by a bigger solicitor's firm asking for a copy but they said my mother is the client, not me, so they would need her permission. In my mothers present condition I do not want to worry her and so getting a copy is going to prove impossible. My mother has a big house in the south coast. She has had heart failure for 5 years (along with 3 different types of cancer). Her heart failure was diagnosed in Oct. last year as end stage with 6 - 12 months left to live. My question is how should I approach the bank (HSBC) about the fact I cannot settle the mortgage straight away and I have an asset that is frozen at the moment? Thanks in anticipation

I don't know whether it's a mirror site, but this one seems to have more data anyway.

Which was also mentioned in the other website I've just discovered.

Yes there were links to other sites, but this one describes the type of *&^%$£" they have to deal with.

Thanks Andyorch, I knew someone on this site would know.

Hi, Ive just been trawling thruogh the tinternet with a computer savvy mate of mine (ironically he works for a major bank) and we eventually found a forum for those people who work in the Debt collection industry ( I don't know how he got into it). I've downloaded the entire forum just in case I can't get back onto it. 1 thread of particular interest was on how employees could set up their own debt collection business. Most of the advice was don't do it. But a lot of it was about how the industry works.What you pay for the portfolio (apparently 6p in the £). They also mentioned "churning" quite a few times. This is where one DCA will sell to another, then to another, until it comes back to the original DCA. A bit like pass the parcel. But it is a business model "churning" I don't know why? Does anyone know what IRR and NPV are? Here's 1 post from someone inside the industry:

Another article doing the rounds today: Just hope Dawn knows about CAG.

Re: last sentence - We are now going to be chased by zombies! How about "The Walking Debt Collectors". I think I'll sell the idea to Netfilx.

In todays Times with their analysis:-

Encore Capital Group which owns the subsidiary Cabot says this about itself today!! Encore Capital Group is an international specialty finance company that provides debt recovery solutions and other related services for consumers across a broad range of financial assets. Through its subsidiaries around the globe, Encore purchases portfolios of consumer receivables from major banks and credit unions. Encore partners with individuals as they repay their debt obligations, helping them on the road to financial recovery and ultimately improving their economic well-being. Really, ... improving their economic well-being...... So, that's what the threatograms are for, improving their economic well-being.

just heard this from someone else. cabot withdraw.pdf

A bit more on the Cabot float in todays Times business section, In the penultimate paragraph I'm sure it should read that Cabot estimate their equity at 5x what other traders think, as was in the Times a few days ago. Not going as well for them as expected. cabot float.pdf

Hi unclebulgaria, When I first got into financial difficulties, due to ill health, I remember someone told me to go through the credit card accounts to see how much money I had actually borrowed purchasing goods, etc. (Up until that point of ill health I had kept the balance of the card as close to zero as I could). Then calculate how much money I had paid over the period of the Credit Card. So, SAR off to the bank and eventually I got the info. £3,819.84 goods/services bought. £5,082.11 repaid by me over that period of time. The rest was usury interest rates (talk about Wonga); penalty charges and other charges even the bank couldn't explain. Total still remaining to pay (according to bank) £10,745.38 So, the total bill for borrowing £3,819.84 came to £15,827.49. Of course that is mainly due to compound interest and charges. Of course when I first became ill I thought (and was assured by Drs) that this would only be temporary. Alas, it wasn't to be, but I thought I only needed to borrow money until I got better. Up until that point I was an exemplary, careful borrower. So it is very easy to slip into a spiral of debt without being reckless.

I agree with you fkofilee, I also don't speak for CAG, and do not condone debt avoidance. Saying that, however, when banks willing sell a debt for approx 10 - 20% of its face value, I would be willing to buy my debt off from the bank with that much discount! I think there should be a consumer law that before a bank sells a regulated delinquent debt, they should offer the option of selling the debt to the debtor for as little as the DCAs give. I don't think that is going to happen any time soon though. So, when I deal with the DCAs : a £10,000 debt is now worth £1,000 - £2,000.(the asset/commodity has been devalued by this sale) That is how I look at it, therefore anything that gives me bargaining chips in negotiations with the DCA is a plus. Often you will read threads on here where a DCA, with little or no chance of chasing it through the courts, offers discounts of anything between 50% to 80%. The DCAs have made a small profit. The banks have obviously got it off their books and are satisfied. The debtor has paid off their debts for a fraction and should also be satisfied. All perfectly legal. CAG just gets us in a better bargaining position to deal with these debts.

Yes, in a previous experience I made a complaint to the FoS - they were reluctant to get involved at first - but the new PAP implies (IMHO) that you can ask them to mediate but only those cases covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Any unreasonable behaviour by a DCA can be reported to the FCA or FoS regardless of the 1974 Act. My daughter, a solicitor, says that you have to give reasons (to the court) why missing documentation(contract/agreement) embarrasses your case. You simply cannot say that - due to missing documentation you owe nothing. CAG i'm sure will always advise what reasons you could site re. missing contracts.

Sorry fkofilee, the new PAP states for the purpose of a regulated debt that the FoS can get involved. It implies only regulated debts under the consumer credit act 1974 can go to the FoS. They will still have to supply a copy of any written contract or explain why they can't.

Not sure if telecoms agreements are covered by 1974 consumer act, but anyway,they have to tell you why they cannot get the agreement. So, I would def. go to the FoS then to mediate see what they say!

Hi fkofilee, I've tried years ago to get the FoS to mediate with a DCA regarding lack of any CCA, they were v. reluctant. Eventually, they did until they lost patience with the DCA. Then they tried with the OC (Barclaycard) with my permish, they stalled as well 'til the adjudicator said cough it up. Barclaycard eventually admitted no CCA existed. Never heard anything from them again. This new PAP at least says regulated agreements should use FOS to mediate, it's going to be hard for the FoS to refuse now.

Thanks Andyorch. A very interesting read. Especially about written agreements as in So you can ask for the CCA and if they can't get it they must explain why. That's going to screw them up! I know some DCAs will still send out a poorly copied application form with little or no T&Cs but then according to the new protocols: you can use the Ombudsman to mediate, I'm sure the FoS are going to love that!

I'm not sure debt buying should be banned, but there are numerous improvements that could and should be implemented. I think that debt buyers should be forced to disclosed exactly how much they have paid for the debt, and courts should take that into consideration when finding in favour of the claimants case and how much of the debt has to be paid back. DCAs should also, by law, inform debtors of their legal rights and whether the debt is legally enforceable etc. right at the outset. If they don't then a court case cannot proceed. But we can wish. sidley

Thanks again unclebulgaria. Reading through CAG forums you will often here that defendants never receive the documents from the claimant (DCA) or that they don't even bother turning up at the hearing. I assume this is a gamble by them (hedging their bets) that they will win a few cases by default or ignorance of how the court works or their rights. The ones they lose money on, that are defended (with help from people like CAG) outweighed by those they get something from will, at the end of the day, still make a profit. But re-reading the article again it seems that a lot of outside observers in the financial world are getting worried about Debt servicers (DCA). I quote:-

Yes, the article says ..... "that due to the spiralling costs of collecting debts......and despite increased court claims activity their returns have started to dwindle (pat on the back CAG). More than 40% of collections that debt servicers can hope to make come in the first 2 to 3 years after purchasing a portfolio as they pick the lowest hanging fruit. Collecting the rest is much more difficult." It goes on to state "that debt purchase managers are more aggressive in the debt portfolio market which in turn has pushed up the prices that they pay for a portfolio, making returns even less attractive."