Hi. Yes it's the same people! I just think they still want their retribution from before, I'm not even a serial debtor! Just a occasional mishapper, big to Andydd Caren

Thanks Andy I got 30 days from gov website about timeframe to pay an invoice. They asked me via email when I was going to pay I said end of the month. That was accepted by the credit controller! thanks for advice, but that said, most of us don't have funds in our accounts until pay day esp, when they send it mid month so it wasn't intentional. as it's quarterly I never know when I'm going to receive it, they never give a next billing date. thanks for your advice. Ps I think you've been on here for many years haven't you!

Hi, Andy. I was 14 or so days after receipt of the invoice via email. Solicitors letter received on same day, ,Should companies allow 30 days anyway? received invoice for service charge 10th April Paid 26th April solicitors letter received 26th April after paid. I'm told by solicitor I am now going to be issued with another letter and are going to review my lease and write to me according to solicitor dont owe them any past debts No Rights and Obligations thing sent with the invoice which I understand makes it illegal for them to demand the costs. Mentioned it to their solicitor in email. No response back to me.

Hi, Andy. I normally pay via direct debit when I get paid at the end of a month. its quarterly, it's sent via email, so there is evidence of receipt for 10th April, caren

Hi this might sound trite but I have been referred to a solicitor for a demand of my service charge for £171.00. The demand is on a 14 day old invoice send to me for service charges on 10th April, 2019" The freeholders are a big financial property and lettings company and I am a leaseholder of 10 years. I am not behind on any debts. they have demand via a solicitor and added £40.00 charge. For payment I said I would pay at the end of the month. There was no Rights and Obligations sent with it therefore it could not be demanded. The solicitor, said I had to pay and I received her letter after I had paid. to be honest, they have no reason to be chasing me, I have said to the solicitor that she is acting wrongly and this was intimidation and she should Be reported to the law society for acting on this matter in such circumstances. She has responded with that she has requested a copy of my lease and will be writing to me shortly about my obligations under the lease. I havent done anything wrong. I am getting fed up with their bullying, Is there anything I can do i.e. Write to the financial ombudsman about their conduct towards me. It feels unfair that they are allowed to do this and not hale any recourse. thank you for any responses

Hi Andy I recieved the form which had Direction too small claims with directions questions to complete and offer of telephone resolution which I agreed to both as per your advice,

Yeah def feeling victorious about it and with all you guys patience with me I can say THIS FLEECER HAS BEEN NAILED

Hi Andy and Dx The latest on the claim, I just recieved a notice of discontinuance of the claim today. I guess the freeholders backed down, What happens now if they sent that to the court does that mean I can't ask them for any costs for defending because I still want do give something to consumer forum. Is that it with all that stress they put on me, etc.

Hi just read your Story about your daughter. I am a psychiatric nurse and work in an all female ward both staff and patients. Sadly the nature of nursing today is working in defensive practice. I would say that the element of confusion and hallucinations will have a bearing on the allegation made, that is not to say it didn't happen, but sometimes families can be more difficult when they really don't know the truth of a situation and can often allay their own emotions and anxieties on staff including their own guilt for not looking after their loved one properly themselves. Often families can be more challenging and can get in the way of caring creating all sorts of issues that causes a lot of nurses to leave the profession because of their wrongful allegations. Often ive found some of those that do complain are the ones who have complex issues themselves! We are on occasions accused by patients who have hallucinations and delusions, at the easier end of complaints we can be accused by patients of poisoning their food. That doesn't help your daughter though. One thing is that we ensure we record everything, any comments made by the patient throughout the shift, doesn't have to be lengthy sometimes using quoted sentences. This gives a flavour of the mental state of the patient at the time. You daughter should try and write down everything she remembers of that night incl what care she gave, and do this in her recorded notes at the end of each shift to cover herself. Was any body mapping done, did the patient suffer bruises and was any incident report completed, this is normal protocol by the nurse in charge even if it is days after. Obviously it is a serious allegation that should have been acknowledged somewhere at the time. II'm always surprised that nurses who care for people can often have attitudes allaying their own stresses and anxieties on one another, often the weaker member of the caring team, it just adds to the stresses and pressure of the job. Sounds to me that it will probably go away and in the meantime your daughter should be glad she is away from that ward if that is how it is, she should have asked for some supervision to talk to someone openly about the matter, did she not have a supervisor who would be in her corner.

Hi Andy, just recieved the notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track, so I've got to complete Directions Questionaire and file it with the court office. I assume file it means just to return the Questionaire ? Guess they think I have a case, guess what just recieved another service charge in the post with no Summary of Terms attached again! Caren

Andy, your a clever man - your FH landlord should come to you for all his litigation advice! Thanks, I could not have done this without your help.....thank you so much. Ive looked at the defence and I see the line about strike out, well worth trying. The claim is from the freeholder so ive put that point in. After sending the defence, you mention a hearing date. Will there be a hearing or do they just look at the defence and make a decision. I am wondering about the proper form to fill in to list costs. Caren

Hi Andy Checked with the court the cost for a strike out and they said it is 155.00 so it is not worth it. I will put my defence together later today and send it tomorrow. Still got till the 25th November . Just one more point In the last paragraph of the defence do I put a fee of say 50.00 to 100.00 for my own litigatetion, I just want to know before I send it in. I will keep you in the loop as to what happens from there. Again just want to thank you even though it's been like pulling teeth with me! Caren

Looks good Andy What's the gap for on iii ? I understand I all. Is it important to have the paragraph about claiming 'rents' as service charges. The invoices state they are service charges - I guess this is to cover me if they use this clause in the lease. So if I go the demand route would iI choose to counter claim for costs because it states the same point at the end 'The defendant asks to claim for XX for litigate etc, I've got 3 choices Admit, part admit or defend all. Caren

As these are paid now they cant be recovered as rent. If there is also the argument for rent then there is an argument for obstruction. On email 'I asked for the name of the person at the FH who the solicitor's were dealing with. They would not give me a name. In the summary of rights it says something like if I ask for the name of any/all the persons from the company i should be given their Director/Secretary. If I strike out their claim, surely they cant hit me for costs because there is no legitimate claim, then only my costs could be pursued from them. Hopefully we can proceed now with the strike out defense. Caren

Hi Andy, Sorry, again night shifts for a couple of days! Hence late reply....but not forgetting this matter. ..just awake unable to get my sleep pattern back to days. Here's my stance at this point. Considering these people have tried to intimidate me (letter 29th Oct giving me till 6th of Nov to pay up, then letter on 3rd Nov, intending to strike out my defense if I defend them) Im inclined to hit back hard, but 10% concerned they will say 'as I paid the money and interest, I'm accepting I owed them the money' I paid £173.00 which I read on the claim form without realizing it incl. interest. Im thinking this was a bluff tho - this is the only point I am concerned about - I could kick myself for paying up when I got their money claim, panicked. Just re-read your point: You may have paid the amount now but FTT/LVT rules says that payment is not an admission where is this point just for reference! .. you imply the court will likely find it in my favour. How does it play out on the Summary Judgement/strike out route....? 90% interested in going this route even with potential/riskier option to end up paying their legal costs? They couldn't hit back with anything? so if nothing was actually due this makes their claim invalid so I will go for it being struck out, how do I do this and add costs. I like the challenge ! Im going to Defend, I would appreciate your typing up a copy. I havent had chance to review your one above. Once again thanks Andy, your a star. Caren

AndyYes I owe £168.12 on the service charges Just wanted to make the point. Your post made me laugh because you put your landlords through the mill - twice!!! Didn't they learn the first time they tried it on with you,

That will be great Andy, I will take my chance and go for having it struck out and claim my costs and donate half to consumer forum, because they have put me through such hassle First thing is ? will have to file defence, yes please let me have A copy of your defence, Do you think they will say I accepted the demands because I paid though. Caren

OMG!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx to you. Can you look at the draft Defence I created this last night. It does need tweeking loads since you brought up this point above. I see they've completely missed Point 6. The font is smaller in their one. There seems to be lots of errors. I also read about pre-action protocol that the courts suggest Claimants address before court action, and ive used some of this in my defence. 1. The sum of £261.27 is disputed. At the time of court action nothing was owing. The sum of £176.37 has been paid due to harassment. I do not accept the demands from XXXX as legal and binding. No demand for payment of service charges was accompanied the Summary of Rights and Obligations under Section 156 of the Leaseholder and Tenants Act, 2002. This relates to Invoices 01/03/14 xxxxxx for £81.12, 01/06/4 xxxxx for £105.50, 29/09/14 xxxxx for £105.50 2. The sum of £261.27 is disputed. The Claimant did not attempt to discuss, explore or negotiate or reach any settlement to resolve the matter prior to instructing their legal advisers. No prior notice or formal correspondence was undertaken by XXXX Ltd. The Defendant could not foresee the actions of the Claimant with no initiation of engagement and therefore sees their actions as unfair and inappropriate with no administration costs detailing clearly with any accompanying Summary of Rights and Obligations under Section 156 of the Leaseholder and Tenants Act 2002. First initiated contact by the Claimant. A letter dated 3rd September 2014 from their acting agents XXXX Solicitors seeking to recover costs which makes no reference to a sum of £250.00 paid to the Claimant 7 days prior to their instruction nor does it not make clear they had entered into a notice of intent or, that it should be acknowledged. The amounts stated were incorrect. An email to the agents recently has made clear their letter was intended as a notice of intent. A further letter dated 4th September 2014 from XXXX Solicitors was received outlining an agreement following a telephone call I made to their office on 4th September 2014 seeking to address the acknowledgement of the earlier payment. The agents had not been informed by the Claimant before instructing proceedings. It was suggested that the demand amounts were incorrect and the letter should be reissued. No agreement was entered into in relation to the demand for 29th September 2014 as this was not disputed. Pre-action Protocol was not followed: No notice of money claim court intended action or Particulars of Claim have been received by the Defendant. No clarifying notice for balancing costs have been received for the £124.00 credit note on 9th September 2014 reducing the balance outstanding to £62.62 as well as the new demand for 29 September 2014 for £105.00 increasing the balance to £168.12 by 29th September 2014. The Correspondence received from the Claimant throughout September 2014 and October 2014 is as follows: Letter dated 3rd September, from Solicitors showing incorrect balancing. Letter dated 4th September, from Solicitors. 8th October 2014, received Summary of balance on account dated 29th September 2014 with no covering letter or any correspondence, date stamped on envelope 6th October, 2014 which gives no indication of payments made. Following receipt of the court claim whilst the matter has been ongoing I have attempted to engage with the acting agents for XXX. During attempts to communicate further their conduct has been defensive and difficult in seeking resolution. 3. I do not accept the interest due to the above points 1 and 2. In addition in the particulars of the claim it states ‘ the statutory interest is claimed at 0.00%’.

Hi Andy, Umm I see, so where do I go with this now! I have to respond today to their letter that says they are giving me until 6th Nov to pay their legal costs (see prev post with attachment). And I am keen to send in my defence to the court. what would be a good way of saying I do not accept the demands on the court claim defence since Ive already paid the invoices. Incidentally, their demand letters in Sept (these had wrong amounts on both the letters since I had paid most of their costs in Aug 250.00). Does this make their case weak? They are aggrieved they wrote to me without checking their account that is why they want to offset their cost for writing to me. Surly a defence in my case would be this since I asked for a payment plan in Aug, and paid an amount. When they wrote to me on 3rd Sep with their demand letter they believed I had not paid anything and all the all costs in the letter are incorrect - doesnt this carry some weight if the Notice of Intent is not correct. They also did not list their Admin costs before action what about protocol before action? Anything in this area. ***Attached are the invoices and a summary of tenants rights. The summary of tenants rights ONLY attached to the credit note and not the invoices.

Hi Why would you need to see the demands? They are standard invoices in advance. Happy to upload them tho. I owed This from 1st Sept outstanding 187.12. But then this changed what I owed. 12th Sept credit note 124.00 balance 62.12. (Yearly balancing credi) And so did this. 29th Sept invoice 105.50 balance 168.62 (rec,d early Sept' for advance charge starting 29th Sept) 168.62 owing at end of Sept 14 Just want to add this in relation to Andy,s comment about freeholders wanting to use statute law ie my lease to recover their legal costs This is what I came across Section 153 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, with effect from 1st October 2007 requires that "A demand for the payment of a service charge must be accompanied by a summary of the rights and obligations of tenants of dwellings in relation to service charges" & accordingly a tenant may withhold payment of a service charge which has been demanded from him / her if the requirement to provide the summary is not complied with in relation to the demand" "Where a tenant withholds a service charge under this section, any provisions of the lease relation to non-payment or late payment of service charges do not have effect to the period for which he withholds it" So its just a late payment only, and they can't use the lease terms to recover their legal costs with no summaries attached, ONLY if I accept the demands.... So I need to say the party acted 'frivolously or an abuse of process". Since most of the demands were on the whole up to date, only (Sept 1st in advance request to pay 29 Sept) did not allow 30 days (from 29th) before proceeding as 'excessive' and 'abuse of process'. Also: "This summary, which briefly sets out your rights and obligations in relation to administration charges, must by law accompany a demand for administration charges. Unless a summary is sent to you with a demand, you may withhold the administration charge. In respect of your failure to make any payment due under your lease or in connection with a breach of a covenant or condition of your lease since I paid the money claim I could use this provision I think?. So if I put in my defense on email, on 6th, I am at a loss as to which acknowledgement I choose - 1, Admit part of the claim, or 2, dispute the whole claim and make a counterclaim against the claimant, stating 'i paid under duress but do not accept their claim' to recover their costs as these were late payments. Please advise. Caren

Hi Andy I do have copies of the demands and a credit note for 124 also sent in Sept.. Let me me if you need these to be uploaded. Quick point what about works outstanding that I have asked to be resolved for some time. Does that carry any weight. I have uploaded the Particulars of Claim I have uploaded 2 statements of charges and payments 1. The Particulars of Claim has 0.00% in the first paragraph. 2. In October, the only communication I received was the smaller statement of costs through the year. The larger one uploaded was one I requested from another dept in the company. What has occurred is this In August I spoke to the freeholders and asked for a payment plan, they said NO. I said I could not afford the invoices. As I recall I owed for only 2 invoices in June and was upto date prior to this. They still said NO. I said i would pay what I could. I paid on 31st August by BACS £250.00. They did not LOOK in their bank account which was paid a week before and instructing the solicitors in early Sept to write their demand letter. They are aggrieved that they instructed their solicitors to write to me without checking their account for the payment I had made. When I received the solicitors letter on 4th I called the solicitors saying your letter is wrong as I paid £250.00 last week. The subject of the September invoice was not discussed, it was only discussed about paying the balance outstanding at the end of August. I had not received the invoice in the post for Sept by then and I'm sure they are misleading the truth. In October I recieved the smaller summar of the year with no covering letter. which is does not show any payments for the year. The other statement I obtained from another dept, does give a truer picture. Ok being ill is not a defence and I have not denied paying their invoice. And I do have the Invoices yes. They did scare me into paying the costs on their money claim action. Did you say that they had to send their Admin costs with a summary of rights and obligations? Does that hold any weight. Thanks Carne One more point Andy, Yes, I only dispute the £85.00 and interest. From what I read it doesnt look good for me. ? Notice of Intent. Is that the letters in September. Should they have sent a reminder or something in October for September invoice. How can they send a letter of intent only 2 weeks into the September month. If necessary I will ask the judge to assign the claim to the small claims courts so that it stops me incurring any court costs if I lose.

Thank you Dx, hope your well, umm can't they be read if they're a JPEG? What's the difference? I still need to upload the Particulars of Clsim and then Ive uploaded it all and will do that tomorrow. Im surprisingly calmer now with all your help and I'm holding my own with these solicitors. I couldn't send the defence by using the money claims site I called them and they said I had a paper copy that had to be returned that way. Bit odd me thinks.

Andy, thank you so much for looking at the lease. I promise I will scan the letters tonight and have them uploaded this early evening. I didnt have the Summary of Rights for all the invoices they have issue with,. Not stapled to the invoice as they've done in the past. This is how I am going to play it on the Defense in their money claim issue. However although it was only -62.00 owing in September, and then September invoice came for 105.00 then they are rather quick to jump the gun particularly as I was off work for 2 weeks from 24th Sept hence I didn't pay. I have a letter from my employer stating that I was sick with sick note. However since they've been paid in Oct salary they are still fighting for their Admin charges of 85.00 and seemingly to heck with the cost, it must be generating them to produce letters by their solicitors if it is 50.00 each since I paid. Following on from a letter i received on 31 Oct, from the solicitors, The solicitors assumed I was not going to defend my case so were pushing for me to pay their admin fee , I said to them that they were mistaken that I was proceeding with my defence and received this letter yesterday ' Letter dated 3/11/14 You indicated that you intend to file a defense in this matter in respect of the balance outstanding of £85.00. This balance relates to a £35.00 court fee and £50.00 fixed costs, the debt and interest have been discharged by you. Please note that if a Defence is filed we will submit an application to the court to strike out the defense as the £85.00 is payable under Statute. We reserve the right to produce a copy of this letter to the Court in any subsequent proceedings.' They are bent on trying to pass the costs onto me. Why because I paid them an amount at end of Aug for late payments by bacs. They didnt look at their account and instructed their solictors to write to me in early Sept. Snow they want to charge me for their letter costing 50.00 plus court costs. The are very aggrieved and I think its just because they want to win. Any idea as to what they are doing.. Andy are you saying then.. The Leaseholder's should set it out in the form of an invoice their costs for Administration and enclose the Summary with it as they would normally do with the service charge? The first 2 letters relate to their initial request. Note it does not have Sept invoice. 2nd letter refers to Sept invoice. The question is which is the Notice before Action? 2 Summaries of payments. 1. I received on 15 Oct with no correspondence Leaseholders, the other I requested from a surveyor who works in a different dept to the accounts. After payment: 2 more letters and contradiction email saying i did speak to the Leaseholders. This is getting messy. Hope that you can provide information regarding this.

Dear Dx, Stu and others I managed to upload my lease and some recent letters from the leaseholders solicitors saying I have to pay their legal costs. These need to be uploaded in Adobe. I received a letter today from the solicitors in a threatening tone. I have uploaded a copy of my lease. Can you tell me if the leaseholder has rights to charging me admin costs for their legal fees. I am not sure the lease has any relation to this. If I havent made myself understood. Please let me know. Thank you Caren

I'm going to have to leave too getting busy. .thank you all for your help tonight. Will try and go back onto the site to lodge the defence tomorrow. Goodnight. Enjoy your rest DX.