why-not-me
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Thanks, I guess that could be a few quid to help reduce my debt - at my recent order for sale hearing their barrister was arguing over £2 with the judge so even if I got that I would be happy. If I owed bank A £50 and bank A owed Bank B £100 then I decided to pay bank B £50 to reduce bank A's debt would I still owe bank A £50?? would any bank let me get away with this if they owed someone money and I paid my debt to that person for whatever reason without their agreement... Doesn't seem right, no matter how I look at it but I have learnt (the hard way) that the courts (well at least the lower tier courts) let the banks etc get away with as much as possible, so they will probably tell me to jog on.
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Thanks - do you know of any laws rf anything official that says this is not allowed. do I ask debt buyer to refund ppi? or can I ask the Court to enforce the Tomlin order? - Am I right in thinking OC can't honour Tomlin as they don't own debt anymore - they just can't choose to pay someone as in any case given the length of non compliance the PPI would have to be recalculated. If anyone can outline the right steps if any to take I would be grateful. Its been over 2 years since that was agreed, if OC just "refunded" the PPI shouldn't it have to be recalculated at least? also nearly a year after selling debt is just ok for OC to say we will pay refund to new owners (it shows as transfer on statement from new owner).
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Yes it is - good spot. Bloody new creditor started order for sale... just came from court.. they got postponed order for sale. Can anyone advise if they are allowed to do what they did re PPI refund - thats is paying directly to new creditor ? I want/have to pay debt but hope to reduce it as much as possible if I can.
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Thanks in advance for your advice. I have a tomlin order for bank to refund PPI and reduce balance, OC sold debt without reducing balance - new owner claiming old amount. I told them they had breach tomlin order and asked them to contact me so we could resolve the issue. New owner then sends me an updated statement showing correct balance and a transfer into my account; they claim this is PPI payment form OC. Can they do this? did they have a right to pay new owner without my say so? can i treat payment as gift?
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Ok, I have received the letter below following my email to customer services. I thought they would hand over to their legal department but they are treating it as a complaint.
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Thanks Andy. They have paid my costs it was a term in the schedule, I just had to remind them. I was thinking about applying to set aside the Tomlin order and then suing them for damages for breach of contract. I think I can show financial harm as I am unable to pay debt while DCA has wrong balance so can't get CCJ marked as satisfied and therefore can't move mortgages (can't get a better interest rate) - I have been told by lenders that only satisfied CCJ's will be acceptable. Fortunately this CCJ and CO is are the only adverse items at present on my credit file.
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OK thanks Andy I will remember that. No, I have also checked my experian and noddle credit reports (I check them regularly) and they both show CCJ and CO with old balance. Is the trustonline more accurate than these two? Also the OC in response to my complaint has confirmed the balance. I am 100% sure that I have never received anything to do with the original judgement they got against me. I don't think they would have done it. I had to remind them about my costs about 3 weeks after the Tomlin order was sealed so they started breaching the order for day dot , that reminds me; During the negotiations they where adamant that they would not pay my costs. They really started sweating when I said that PPI was not optional and that the agreement may be unenforceable. It was great, they wrote back a harsh email telling me I didn't have two legs to stand on and that the documentation for loan clearly said it was optional, no one had ever won in Court using that argument and blah blah blah. I wrote back simply stating, that's funny because no where in any of the documentation is the word optional ever used. They promptly wrote back and agreed to pay my costs
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I think its best if I give you a little background to this saga: 1. I fell into debt, I was on a good salary etc but over stretched myself (hold my hands up it was my fault, credit was so easy for me to get ). 2. The bank took me to court, I was scared and begged them not to give me CCJ ( I didn't check anything I just wanted to avoid CCJ). 3. Bank made me sign Tomlin order to pay regular amount, they added term that gave them judgement if I ever defaulted (in hind sight it was a deadly trap, but I was scared so I signed). 4. About 3 or 4 years later I had a mini break down and missed a payment next thing I had CCJ and the CO (lucky property was in joint names so CO is not really worth the paper its written on). 5. Found out about all this PPI stuff and decided to go for it to see if I could reduce debt so maybe I could offer a full and final settlement. 6. I took them to court and got judgment by default and then got a warrant of execution. 7. After bailiff visit they made an application to set aside my CCJ and warrant against them. 8. We agreed Tomlin order, Court sealed the agreement. 9. They have sold debt without abiding by terms of Tomlin order described earlier in this thread. Does that help?
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No, they took me to court and got a CCJ and CO over debt. I then took them to Court for PPI on that debt. I got CCJ and warrant against them, they tried to get CCJ and warrant set aside. We agreed Tomlin order described above before hearing for set aside of CCJ and warrant.
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LOL thanks Andy - Your right, I should have had it checked over but I got caught up in the whole quick fire negotiation process via email about two days before their set-aside hearing (and it was a pleasure to watch them crumble). I wish I could post emails, they are quite comical. Hi Surfer01, I would rather not help the DCA or OC anymore than I am required too. The DCA owning the debt suits me - I just want to pay it off, this situation may allow me to pay it off and get the CO and maybe even the original CCJ set aside (fingers crossed).
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I don't know how it was re issued - I really don't understand this question, sorry ??? I received a copy of the Tomlin order from the Court - the consent order part of it that says my CCJ and Warrant is set-aside. I am a bit confused?? was I supposed to get anything else from the Court or OC? do you think my CCJ and Warrant against OC is still live?
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Hi Andy, I think so. The consent part of the sealed order states that " 1.The Judgement Order date *** and warrant of execution dated *** shall be set aside forthwith;"
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I agree, so it would be up to the Defendant to apply to the Court to get it amended as agreed? (that should not have been a problem for them). I would also say the meaning is clear giving the context, like you say (and any competent lawyer should know) the only way to amend a CCJ or CO is by application to the Court. What I don't understand is: 1. who is in charge of the CCJ and CO, the new owner of debt or OC? 2. can the new owners apply to get it amended or is it only the OC that can do it? 3. the Tomlin order I agreed with OC can the obligations and duties have passed to the new debt owner or do they remain with OC? 4. could the assignment be faulty because of Tomlin order- the balance of the assignment was wrong as it hadn't been reduced in line with the Tomlin order. If anyone can help answer these questions I would be grateful. I have a feeling that this little drip is going to turn into a flood for the OC.
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Thanks SP and Mike_hawk. If you look at terms 1.1 and 1.2 I think it is clear, the language is 'amend' to me that means change, how they would do that is of no concern to me - as you said they drafted the agreement. This was handled by the OC's internal sols - a bunch of muppets. I will try and engage them one last time, then I will apply for set aside and try and enforce the original CCJ and warrant I got against them - they no longer own the debt so I don't think they have a set off defence. I really don't want them to get away with this at all, they were very aggressive throughout the earlier CCJ/CO process.
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"Have you spoken to its counsel?" I think I might have to if this gets complicated.
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I don't think so in assignment letter they it says they will take care of CCJ and CO and I don't have to do anything. When I check credit reports it still has OC's name against CCJ.
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Its not a silly question. I have had a letter from OC that DCA has absolute rights and is now complete owner of this debt including charging order etc. Also in response to my complaint they refer me to DCA as owner of the debt.
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I have written to them explaining the issue in detail, along with the terms they have breached - they have had 40 days to investigate (which I don't think they did) and have sent me their final response; they feel that they have not committed a serious breach and I should refer to DCA for PPI refund. I am trying to negotiate a full and final settlement with DCA, but the DCA is unwilling because when they look at the current balance they think my offer is too low - This is because the OC did not honor the agreement. Now that the OC has sold the debt, I can see only two options for OC to enable them to honor the agreement: 1. Buy back the debt and do what they were supposed to do 2. Pay PPI refund to me directly as they don't own debt to reduce balance - Am I right in thinking that if they paid DCA without my permission (its my money) then it would be seen as a gift on their part? Point 2 would be my preferred option as it would give me a substantial amount of money to add to the amount I am negotiating with the DCA and would most likely be accepted. I want to claim compensation because their breach has caused me financial harm as the DCA has reject my offers on the basis of the outstanding balance (would this hold water?).
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Thanks. The consent says: 1.The Judgement Order date *** and Warrant of Execution dated *** shall be set aside forthwith; 2. The Application hearing listed for *** shall be vacated; 3. The proceedings are stayed on the Settlement Terms except for the purpose of carrying those terms into effect for which the parties have permission to apply to the Court. 4. Either party may apply to the Court to enforce the Settlement Terms without the need to bring a new claim. 5. No order as to costs. Excerpts from the agreement: 1. The parties have agreed the following terms in full and final settlement of the Claimants claim against the Defendant for the alleged mis-selling of the policy of payment protection insurance ... 1.1 the Defendant will amend the value of its money judgement against the Claimant and the associated Charging Order dated *** to *** being the total amount payable once the Policy has been cancelled; 1.2 the Defendant will further reduce the value of its money judgement against the Claimant and the associated Charging Order dated *** by the sum of ***, being the value of PPI payments made to date by the Claimant (inclusive of interest) (the "Refund"); 2 The Claimant acknowledges and irrevocably agrees that under the terms of the Agreement (which are not novated, varied, revised, amended or modified by these settlement terms): 2.1 the balance outstanding under the Agreement (after implementing paragraph 1 of these settlement terms) will be reduced to *** (the Balance); 2.2 the Claimant acknowledges that the Balance remains due and owing by to the Defendant; 2.3 Any current and/or future payments arrangement for the Balance is not intended as nor shall be deemed a novation , variation , revision, amendment or modification of the Agreement; and 2.4 the Defendant agreement to the terms of this Order is made in specific reliance on the paragraph 2.2 above. 3 The Defendant shall pay the Claimant the sum of ***, in respect of the Claimants costs of the claim, within 14 days of the Defendant receiving a sealed copy of the Tomlin Order from the Court.
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Brief background summary. I had a loan with bank, defaulted and they got judgement and charging order. Took bank to court for PPI on the loan, got default judgement and warrant of execution. Bank applied to get judgement and warrant set aside. We reached a compromise that they would reduce balance of judgement and charging order and amend the same accordingly. They have since sold debt without reducing the balance or amending judgement or charging order. Whats the best way to handle this? can I claim damages? Thanks in advance.
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I got letter from bh legal today saying "Please note our client has agreed to your application to set aside the Statutory Demand with no order as to costs. We therefore enclose a Consent order for your approval".
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Thanks unclebulgaria67. The order states clearly that I should file and serve written evidence in reply (if so advised), it also says both parties should lodge a Listing Certificate by 7th June. Maybe I should just wait and file my witness statement - at bottom of Listing Certificate document it says: " Note: If the case is not ready and/or this form has not been completed on time the court may fix an appointment for further directions. The party who has not complied with any directions given my be ordered to pay any costs unnecessarily incurred. Only original witness statements filed in accordance with directions made will normally be read at the final hearing. Copy evidence is not generally accepted. " Since they clearly have not complied with the direction to file and serve their witness statement does it mean that there is a chance the court will not allow it? or am I being to simple.. seems courts are funny places. By the way I asked OC for agreement back in 2010.
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Hi All, below is brief summary of current issue: 1. BW legal issued statutory demand for lowell (ex barclays (OC), Morgan Stanley) 2. I applied for set aside 3. Court wrote and set hearing for BW to provide original signed agreement, statements, notice of assignment(NOA) and letters they had sent 4. BW turned up without the agreement but had statements and NOA, Court adjourned hearing till 13th June so they could get original agreement from the OC. Court gave them till 1st May to file and serve written evidence so that I can file and serve by 24th May - they haven't sent anything 5. Hearing on 13th June is non attendance pre-trial review. 6. Today I received letter from BW serving me with statement of account (again?) no mention of agreement or any witness statement. My question is what is best way to proceed? 1. Write to Court telling them that BW have not complied (again) with one of their orders? 2. Wait and file my witness statement as ordered By the way statements show late charges or £12, also account quoted in NOA is not same as in statements. Thanks for any responses!
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