Corporate and organisational bylaws regulate only the organisation to which they apply and are generally concerned with the operation of the organisation, setting out the form, manner or procedure in which a company or organisation should be run. Corporate bylaws are drafted by a corporation's founders or directors under the authority of its Charter or Articles of Incorporation. They regulate themselves not you or I. Who is delegating my rights away anyway. A by-law or legislation is only given the rule of law by consent, which I won't give if I don't agree. It's only a commercial contract that you are fooled into signing into, when you fill in your ticket and send it back. LOL I can't say anymore, take it or leave it.

I had this same type of discussion with others over the clamping issue! Nobody, especially me is suggesting that we dump our cars wherever we like. I have never and will never park my car where it obviously should not be. If you enter a private car park, you accept their terms and conditions of parking there, so you pay the fees or pay the forfeit. Am I correct? But that is assuming that they have a right to administer those terms and conditions, eg; they own the land or the building. Is that correct? If they have the right, they have the right, but make sure before paying. Isn't that obvious? That is all that I have tried to say on this subject really. We haven't understood each other because I was put on the back foot by a troll killer lol and then the cynicism started. If we are to stop these civil indiscretions and sometimes intimidating attacks (which is what we started this thread with, an intimidated member of our society) then we must learn to cooperate a little better. Including me!

It's become obvious that some of you regard your 'freedom on this land' as crap. As I said that's your choice,but remember that freedom of choice, is a freedom in itself, so it can't all be crap. I have merely attempted to enlighten you on your other choices on this subject, if you don't want to accept them, there is nothing I can do about that, I won't enter into a battle of wills with individuals that I can't see. My advice is to try to understand what you don't, and do things for yourself, instead of relying on others to do it for you. Especially learning to determine truth from deception. All that probably sounds like FOTL crap to some of you. AgAin,your choice.

I don't get you, are you suggesting that I'm the troll again?

What you call crap is basically your freedom my friend. If you want to pay your parking fees, then pay them that's your freedom of choice.

Because you aren't understanding me, don't allow cynicism to creep into the discussion. As I have said each company/corporation [your council being one of those monsters], as is the police, the church, the courts and any other organisation that operates for profit. Your NHS is slowly becoming one of them. So they are all the same be they private or so called public, which nothing is anymore except failing banks.! Are you understanding more?

You are just not following are you? Just think! Watch! Listen! Learn! and most of all TRUST!

To attempt to answer your question, not being a lawyer or a magistrate, is that a lot is taken on assumption. Remember! Civil courts deal with civil and criminal law. The side parking disputes go to isn't about crime, just money. They don't have to present any proof of debt just their argument which you have to defend successfully. If you do it their way by way of signing the PCN then you have entered into their contract. You must attempt to represent yourself in a civil court. If you do not it will be found that you are liable, simply because you did not defend yourself so then it is assumed that there is a debt and that you must be liable as you did not contest any submitted claim. When you do respond you must do it as I said, by way of using their PCN or PON [purchase order number] number only. Don't bring yourself into the dispute as a human by signing their forms or your letters. If you include your name or adress or telephone number you are inviting them to keep writing to you. Tell them as I said, that you do not wish to do business with them and if they persist, you will cherge THEM. It can be done. You Tube; The Spaniard & Ben Lowrey - How to make corporations pay you for their mistakes! - IN DETAIL! Try it!

Your council is a corporation like any other, who subcontract parking enforcement to the same companies as a private company. You deal with them in the same way. Orange did the same thing with me, that is what started this for me. It doesn't matter what company you are dealing with, they are all covered by the same regulations as the banks, and they dont follow regulations and aren't forced to because there is no legislation in place to force them. You ring the police today and they will put you through to 'customer services'. Your a customer to them.

Its all about subterfuge! And how long you will argue with them till you pay up. The longer you argue with them without knowing what your doing, the more the potential debt goes up, piling on the pressure until you give in. I know, you know and we all know that "they can't do that" because we keep saying it but we don't understand it. I am not here to sell what I know. I am not a solicitor but I do know that I am a human being and not a corporation or an asset that can be dealt on the open market for profit, because that is exactly what is happening. Not only is the council making money from your misery ticket, but also the people you complain to in Liverpool. Everyone concerned gets paid from the issue of these tickets and the rest goes to pay for road repairs. I have the parliamentary memorandum that tells us where the proceeds end up. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Really! I am not trying to be condescending nor do I want to seem like a know it all, I am merely attempting to share what I have learned but is is difficult when a basic understanding of other things are needed first. Reserch and comprehend; capitus deminutio, the definition of a person, the difference between a contract and an agreement, the differences between law and legislation and regulation. You may begin to put together a picture of how these things aand others are used against us, to take money from us for nothing. Is that the something for nothing Britain we keep hearing about?

I didn't say that they could just turn it into a debt, you do that unwittingly by signing any of their paperwork (if you follow the thread). As I said if you sign the paper just pay it or write it off. If you ignore it, they then send idle threats of court action which most people give into too easily. If you don't respond at all, they can go to court and ask them to get involved. If you still ignore the courts' mail the courts will begin a process to get this debt paid. You haven't defended yourself yet. When you get a rural parking ticket [cities differ] you should reply without providing your; address, telephone number, name or any other bit of information that is not relevent to them. For reference use only the PCN number. DONT SIGN ANYTHING. Politely inform them that you do not wish to enter into business with them, and if they persist, you will have to CHARGE them for administering their paperwork. Believe it or not, with a little bit more understanding you will be able to switch it on them and charge them for putting a ticket on your car. As I said I have been through the terrifying process and come out the other end, better off!

I offered my opinion and you called me a troll. I took exception and responded with anger and I am sorry for that, but I am sick and fed up of trying to explain this to people like you who just don't see all the time, instead of asking questions. Let's try again shall we?

I understand the legal process better than you can imagine my friend. I also know the difference between law, legislation and regulation, but that is probably something else you don't see. Is what you see the only important thing in life? Maybe yours but not mine. Now if you want an argument get married, if anyone can live in your world where you can't see anything because you aren't willing to look at anything. Get back on your video game where you kill trolls and leave the important stuff to us grown up people. Just open your eyes before you hit the lamp post !!!!!!

You dream about trolls all you like. I understand how it works and it is simpler than you think. Write to your council or MP and ask if it is against the law to park on yellows. They will insist that it is, but it isn't and I have letters from my council and MP eventually stating that the parking on yellows was repealed in 2004. Making it only a council regulation that they assume that you agree to. When you receive THE TICKET (request for payment) if you sign it, you validate it with your signature (like a bank note) it is now worth £70 that you have promised to pay to the bearer, by signing it SO IF YOU SIGN IT YOU HAVE TO PAY IT or if you know what your doing WRITE IT OFF. You Tube... Winston Shrout Accepted For Value You have to know how to get out of signing it legally or writing the debt off. Don't dismiss everyone as a troll or you will never progress beyond dragging your knuckles.

What you have received is not a fine, it is only a request for payment. If you write to them stating that "You understand that they have a right to ask for payment but you reserve the right to refuse". They have no legal recourse whatever they threaten, but you have to reply or they may register it as a debt in county court, who will see you as unreasonable. Just remember to say no reasonably.