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Zettai Baka

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  1. Yeah, I thought that part was dodgy as well. If you remember, their initial response to my appeal stated pretty strongly that they were in the right, and I was in the wrong. Then I replied to them with a polite but firmly worded email, which I have attached, in case anyone's interested. Reply to Oldham Council PCN appeal denial.pdf
  2. Well, whaddya know! Stood my ground and saved some money, thanks to all of you! Please see attached image Thanks to everyone who offered their advice! I will donate the £35 that I saved to this forum instead, via the Donate button. Hopefully it pays for hosting this website, or something. I had to chuckle at the last paragraph that says "Please note, any future contravention may be enforced." Ha. Ha.
  3. Hi Hungrydoug, thanks for quoting this and bringing it to my attention. The way I see this is as follows: The prohibited parking times are from 10 am to 5 am. This time period exceeds 12 hours, and therefore covers both am and pm. That is, if you start counting from 10 am and stop counting at 5 am, at some point you will pass through "pm". Rule 12.2.2, as stated, only applies if the time period covers only "am" or "pm" -- not both -- and therefore this rule does not apply. For instance, if the prohibited times were 5 am to 10 am -- that entire period covers "am" and only "am", and in that case this rule applies. What do you think?
  4. Thanks for the warning, Michael. I did have to sign a courtesy car agreement, but I don’t have a copy of it. I just contacted the dealership and asked the manager not to pay the fine if he ever receives anything related to this PCN. I’ve never seen a Notice to Order, but is that section regarding the transfer of liability clearly marked? If so, I’m hoping the manager will notice it, fill it in and transfer the liability to me without requiring prior knowledge of what you just said.
  5. Thanks again, Michael. The funny thing is, the car I was driving at the time belongs to the manager of the dealership where my own car was being repaired. They didn't have a courtesy car with automatic transmission like I requested, so they gave me the dealership manager's personal vehicle. Brand spanking new vehicle with a couple of hundred miles. I put a couple of hundred more on it, and now the manager is going to get a Notice to Owner in the post. He's going to love me.
  6. Thanks for your advice Michael. After the sanity check from you and other people who replied, I've decided to not pay this silly fine. I'll wait for the Notice to Owner, and then post up an appeal here. I've never been to court or an adjudication, so in my head I'm thinking judges with wigs, a jury and a prosecution like in the movies, but I'm guessing it won't be that dramatic...?
  7. Thanks for the reply. I wouldn't be surprised if they reply with something like "Well it's just common sense that 10 means 10am because that's how taxis work, and you should know how taxis work, blah blah."
  8. If you read that in conjunction with the next line, it's like they're saying "When I say 10, I obviously mean 10 am, duh." It makes me not want to pay them a single penny. I did a Google search for "no stopping signs UK" and I could not find a single sign that does not clearly specify am/pm in both of the times. If I end up going to adjudication, I think I'll just print out 10 different "no stopping" signs and say "Look, these are no stopping signs put up by other councils and they leave absolutely no room for interpretation. Why can't you guys do the same thing?"
  9. Hi Jamberson, thanks for the thorough reply. That's encouraging The reply to my appeal from Oldham Council says that the sign means 10 am to 5 am. I've attached screenshots of the email response from Oldham Council. To me, even if that "am" was present in the sign, "10 am to 5 am" is an awkward way of counting time. The response from the council (attached) says that it is 10am - 5am, which again to me is an awkward way of wording time. To consider the opposing argument, I suppose it sort of makes sense if you read the sign the way Gick described it in his post, but if the sign clearly said "10 am" instead of just "10" it would be blatantly obvious to anyone. Do you think I should still ask for a copy of the Parking Order anyway? Contravention Code: 45 Contravention: Stopped on a taxi rank.
  10. Hi Gick, thanks for the reply. I didn’t read the two signs in conjunction like that. I read them as two separate notices: ”No stopping except taxis between these times. Oh, and by the way, loading is only permitted between these here times.” The problem is not the £35 fine itself, but the feeling that I’m being held responsible for misinterpreting a sign that could have been written more clearly, with no room for interpretation had they put “am” at the end of the “10”, like other signs.
  11. I received a PCN from Oldham City Council for parking in a zone that says "No stopping 10 - 5 am except taxis". Please see attached photo. I interpreted this as "No stopping between the hours of 10 pm to 5 am", because that made sense to me at the time. I parked here from about 7 pm to 9:30 pm, and when I got back, the PCN was waiting for me. I am thinking of challenging this on the grounds that the sign is ambiguous and open to interpretation. Every "no stopping" sign I've seen has "am" or "pm" written beside the hours, making it crystal clear and leaving no room for misunderstanding. I've appealed to the council at the email address specified on the PCN, but my appeal was rejected today. If this goes to court, what do you think are my chances are of winning? Thanks in advance for your replies.
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