:Teej75:

 

Activity 11 for a personal independence payment has been a pain since it was drafted (badly) and two revisions of the guidance haven't helped. But Disability n Carers guidance is their policy, it doesn't change the law.

 

The descriptors for personal independence are every bit as harsh as those for employment n support, and I'm in no way trying to diminish your difficulties. But if you read pages 115 - 118 of the document below you may understand the concern I expressed in #13.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers

 

Some points for you to think about;

 

You can plan and follow some journeys. Do you have more days than not when you can't get to wherever you want to go? Try to work out why you can't get there. What happens when you can't get to a work focused interview?

 

Does fatigue/mental confusion prevent you from looking at a bus/train timetable? Or can you plan a journey, but just not quite get there cos of fatigue/mental issues?

 

Apparently you managed to get to Atos without prompting and without being too distressed to find the right building. Was the taxi a regular one, or was it a volunteer service from which you could expect a little extra help?

 

The report from your consultation at Atos is a PA4. Should be yours for a phone call to the number on your disallowance notice. But Disability n Carers haven't quite got used to the idea yet, so you may have to send a written request via recorded delivery.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Margaret!

I offered the HP support letters when i started the consultation but she refused; should she have taken them?

Yes i have more days than not when i can't go out, in fact going out and doing physical activity makes me worse and it can take several days to recover, during those days i won't go out at all, my memory, focus and concentration is impeded.

I got there but couldn't find the building, got dropped off in the wrong place and spent about 10 minutes looking for it, i was relying on the taxi driver to find it and i was panicking, nearly went home but found it with a lady who had an assessment there.

I'll call and ask for the PA4 and anything else on Monday. I can get support letters saying i need transport to hospital appointments and help getting to assessments and have done for several years, they should show that i can't make unfamiliar journeys cause of fatigue, i can't travel far on my own and like i say on a bad day i don't go out i'll just make myself worse and prone to dizzy spells akin to panic attacks, this is why i need the PIP so i can do more, i'm severely limited in what i can do. So yeah i'm pretty sure i need to apply for a reconsideration.

And thanks, appreciate you taking the time to reply.

As I mentioned, the help you need is reaosnable. Is it reasonable to suggest that, if you had a friend with you, you could go out?

Thanks. On bad days it's not reasonable for me to go out at all unless they are taking my by car there and back so i think that's a yes.

From my CPN - oddly it was almost like the one I had taken to my PIP medical, but it was obviously not paid much attention to.

When sent to the DWP it was acted upon.

Thanks. The assessor took a copy my CFS assessment, i assume to send to the DWP. Not sure what's going to be better than that!

Sorry to keep posting but i want to make sure i do all i can to avoid going to tribunal if possible. Thanks again.

To get PIP, you need help at least 50% of the time. I have the odd day where you can give me a map, tell me we're here and tell me we need to get to this place. My case is a tad more complex and there is the safety side of things to consider to.

 

Any help you need had to be reasonable.

 

To the OP - you should also request (I don't know the name of the form) the scorng sheet thing they use to score you / the medical report.

Request before applying for reconsideration? The safety side is also a issue, i won't travel anywhere unfamiliar on my own. I don't think i did a great job during the assessment but i'm pretty sure i said i don't go out most days, only when i'm well enough and because i have no choice.

Thanks!

I asked for a reconsideration on my failed PIP medical and I won I went from 0 points to 18 and have been awarded until 2019.

I answered some questions over the phone and sent a further letter of evidence.

A letter you wrote or one from your GP/Doctor? Thanks.

This really is the problem with these assessments , they have hidden triggers. It is always worth appealing . Do you have a copy of your application and the scoring criteria?

I would be putting together a letter pinpointing where you believe the errors were made and why , this needs to be done quickly , I am not sure of the timescale.

 

I am waiting on my outcome, I had my visit on Thursday 5th March so hopefully I will hear in the next few days

Thanks. I thought of writing a letter but wondered if i should also get support letters. I'll have to call welfare rights and see what they say, they took my form to send but can't remember if they sent me a copy. By scoring criteria you mean descriptors or the score sheet Nystagmite mentions? I'll have to request that.

It may be that i'm not entitled so i need to get things clear before going any further. I'll post if i have any more questions.

It's not your ability to put one foot in front of the other. It's if you're told by a friend to meet them at a certain place, can you plan the journey and get there safely? IE, I can write down the instructions on how to get to a specified place. But I almost always get lost. Certain directions will always confuse me. (ie, you can't tell me to turn left and then tell me to turn right)

Right. No not a bad day, i don't go anywhere and that's what i told them and if someone asked me to meet them somewhere that day i'd have to say no. It's a bit unclear that though, i thought the point of the mobility component was to help with transport. If you can't plan a route and get there safely how could you drive a car?

Thanks for reopening the thread honeybee13!

Well as expected i failed the assessment. I got 4 points and 0 for mobility which was the main reason i was applying.

It says i can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided but yet i took a taxi there which was booked for me so i'm not sure what that means, physically i would not have been able to get there on my own and it's the same with hospital appointments etc.

I'm trying to work out if appealing is worthwhile and whether any evidence i could attain would be enough to support my claim as i have to choose where to expend my energy.

I've only had a CFS assessment last year but cause of some admin errors follow has taken ages so support letters first? Or should i also ask for my medical records as i read ATOS may not.

Thanks.

Oh yeah and i appreciate stuff like that believe me. I probably wouldn't have thought of this stuff so am really grateful for this place.

All this stuff about impressions. GAH, feel like the whole thing is designed to fail you and that's was thinking of when i posted.

You have to be aware of how they score the assessments as evidenced by that guide, if you didn't know and were really ill and said yes i can but you could only do it once you'd fail. The lady i saw did as quite a lot about my issues though.

I questioned whether it'd be worth going through with it again, i'm half expecting get 0 points and have to go to a tribunal again but at least i had a letter from CFS this time which was submitted as evidence.

No, you have to approach it from a honest perspective. If you are having a good day you tell them, if other days are worse tell them that too. Deceiving them into believing that all of your days are bad is said to be leaving you open to a charge of benefit fraud.

Yeah sorry poor phrasing there, i'd never try to deceive always be as honest as i can.

I'll update tomorrow, not really sure how it went but i tried to go into detail of how things affect but i forgot to give examples on some stuff. Cheers.

Thanks. I went through the PIP Guide today and think i have everything covered.

I have a couple of questions i meant to ask.

Does needing transport to hospital appointments count as assistance to managing therapy and does taking natural remedies for cognition and memory count as needing help to communicate verbally?

Also can i give or take notes i've written based on the descriptors cause i might not remember everything.

Thanks.

Thanks both, i'll reply tomorrow. Just glad i asked cause i was in no way prepared for it and welfare rights didn't mention any of this stuff (like the diary)! Cheers.

:Teej75:

 

In case you've not already read them, the descriptors for a personal independence payment can be found from page 32 of the guide at;

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/personal-independence-payment-pip

 

As you live in an area where Atos provide the assessments for personal independence, yes it's going to be very like your work capability assessment. Including the criteria for a home visit. But considering your focus on the mobility component I'm a bit concerned that you're planning to attend by yourself, even in a taxi. You don't need your support worker, but ideally you do need someone (family, friend, neighbour) to accompany you, both as a witness and to show (if it's the case) that you can't manage journeys without help.

 

The assessor may or may not have a copy of your last ESA85 report. Currently Jobcentreplus are trialling the retrieval of ESA85/85As to add to PIP2s but I don't know how well it's working. The assessor won't have a copy of your tribunal paperwork so it's important to hunt that out. All the paperwork (except the Jobcentreplus submission ) if you've still got copies, but especially the Decision Notice.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Funnily i found it all today and was wondering whether to take the decision notice but decided to take it and not leave anything to chance. Got a recent letter from the CFS service as well.

Thing is, the PIP would be for taxis to go places i couldn't ordinarily, i can go places on my own some days but it's a very limited scope. I think the welfare rights advisor told me this was less severe than the ESA assessment so i wasn't all that concerned, she said it can be worse in some areas.

I'll have a look at the PIP form to give me an idea of what to expect. Thanks for all the help.

Don't say "yes, but..." if they ask if you can do something without help. To them, yes is saying "I'm fine". Whereas saying "No, because..." is saying "I can't do it without help".

 

Only say yes if you 100% need no help at all and can repeat the task in a safe reliable manner that doesn't leave you in pain or fatigue for the rest of the day.

Thanks, I have to approach it from the perspective of a bad day.

Putting you in public at this time of day would/could be detrimental your health and welfare, you should make them clearly aware that this is very difficult for you to complete, but only if it is as such....

This is at 1:15 which is apparently the latest they can do.

Don't make an effort. They want to see how you normally are.

I'll show/tell them exactly how it is, warts an' all.

Well originally they wanted me to go to Wakefield at 8:30 am so this is a massive improvement!

It fluctuates but i usually get help with stuff like this cause i don't know when i'm gonna have a bad day. I really just want to get it over with cause i've been waiting a while but i thought the DWP put me into WRAG and this is to help towards that end.

Is this a home visit?

No it's not but my support worker has arranged a taxi for me to get there and back as they can't attend. I didn't think of that but i read they'll do it if you can show that you have home visits from a GP which is something i'm thinking about as getting there is difficult but again this is something the PIP would help with. Thanks.

What you need to remember is that on the day of your assessment you may be having a good day, it may appear that you may not need the extra help

 

 

Please remember to take any letters with you from your medical team if you have one. If you feel uncomfortable about doing part of the test please tell the advisor and if asked give the reasons clearly and precisely.

 

 

The test normally starts long before you get in to the room with the interviewer, they may have CCTV in the reception area to see how you sit or walk before going in to the room.

 

 

You may be offered a chair that has no arms on it, this is useless if you need help of them getting up from a seated position.

 

 

If you need walking aids take them with you. Explain clearly and slowly what your problems are for your care and mobility.

 

 

Don't be afraid to ask questions..

 

 

Any other thoughts you may have please ask them

Thanks. So it's jut like the ESaA, typical!

It's the lower rate and it's to help with transport getting to places.

I don't have a team per se but i have something like CFS which means i'm housebound most of the time and working's impossible without some kind of help.

I have had a CFS assessment recently and there is some folow up on that so i don't have much in the way of evidence but i'll try and get anything from my ESA assessment that i can find.

Hi, it's been a while since i posted but i got some great help with my ESA tribunal before so thought it couldn't hurt to ask.

I haven't done much preparation assuming i'll be fine but i'd really like to get the PIP, it'll mean more freedom and the potential to do some form of work, even voluntary. I was advised by my job center adviser to apply and got help from welfare rights with the application.

I just wondered if there was anything to be aware of, is it a very strict assessment, are they trying to catch you out like the ESA? Will they have access to my evidence from the ESA tribunal and things like that?

Thanks!

I meant to ask couple of things. Should it take 8 weeks to get the ESA instated and how long would i have to appeal to be put into support group? Thanks.

Thanks Margaret. I expected it after what i read from others, i knew i'd get 0 points no matter what i wrote.

So i wanted to be sure that my issues prevented me from working cause people who know me thought i wouldn't have a chance on physical grounds and i'd rather work than be going through this every few months. Then i got conflicting advice from CAB just before the tribunal and then they refused the postponement the day before.

So yeah it really helped. I did what i could from the help i got here and i'm sure it made the difference. I'm just enjoying the peace now. I don't know what WRAG entails and i'm not sure if i should be in support group so i my have more to go before it's over.

My advice to anyone is stick to your guns and get an advocate or welfare rights advisor straight away when you get the ESA50.