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About josh07

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  1. Yup she would not settle, stated the whole freedom pass thing was big fish etc... and she stood by the fact that they had already stated where they stood by email and unfortunately she wouldn't be able to change that. I was gutted but expected it. and the clerk thing basically - Ii asked her if I could speak to the TFL prosecutor as she was taking names of people who had arrived. She stated she was the TFL prosecutor and was only taking names (clerk duites) as the clerk was not present. So bottom line the outcome was the fine as stated above and conviction of the byelaw offence. Hope that clarifies things guys. I did ask them about the byelaw and criminal records but they wernt sure - which inspires great confidence Anyway thanks for your kind words HB appreciate them, will endeavour to stay around and help others
  2. Hi Guys, firstly just want to say a big thank you to the guys on this forum, especially those who have posted on here and assisted me with my problem and worry. I attended court this week at 10am. Had to wait quiet a while as they were a fair few people who had to be seen. I had a word with the TFL prosecutor before the case who was also acting as a clerk. She was nice enough to listen and hear me out. I stated everything I had to and was genuinely sorry and ensured she understood this. I genuinely felt the prosecutor would not give me any of their time but she went and got my file and gave me time to explain and get my message across, I was very nervous. Following this she confirmed that there was nothing that could be done regarding the case and no settlement was possible, she stated I had already been rejected by email and despite the fact she understood she confirmed that was their position. I thanked her for her time and let her know it was important for me to have just been able to speak to her and at least i knew i had tried. She also informed me that the majority of people there were being charged with the main charge (Rora) and I had been charged with a 'byelaw' charge which she described as a lesser offence - strict liability (as opposed to dishonesty or fare evasion) She confirmed that I would be fined accordingly 'Band A' based on the charge. I was called in and pleaded guilty, and said my piece. The magistrates stated that they had noted my early guilty plea and also remorse and apology and taken this into account. I was fined the following: £75 fine £6.30 for ticket to TFL £90 for tfl/court fees (not sure-she spoke really quickly) £15 victim surcharge = £186.30 I expected the fine to be much more hence was a little surprised, especially as I had seen a number of Freedom pass cases on here worth a great deal more. I also didn't understand why they did not charge me with fare evasion and the main act, im guessing this must be due to the evidence I provided. I asked them about the byelaw and whether recordable etc and criminal records however the prosecutor stated they were not sure (brilliant) bottom line im glad its over, im glad its behind me and im glad I can learn and move on. Thankyou to all those on here who helped me, OC,HB,firstclass... genuinely appreciate it and would urge you to continue doing so as for a lot of lost souls you provide help which we would otherwise never have. Thanks Guys, from reading on here for 6 months I decided I MUST post an outcome as you guys always request, and when you read a thread with no outcome cos the OP has legged it after getting your help, its annoying, rude and frustrating wanting to know what happened. Well there it is guys, that's how it ended for me. Word of advice for all those out there in similar positions, read around here, get all the advice from the very helpful knowledgeable members and learn from your mistakes, nothing in this world is for free, we live and learn, if you can afford to pay fines you can afford to pay a railfare, I learnt this the hard way. Thanks again. (iambilly give it up mate)
  3. OC/Guys anything to add in regards to trying to speak to the TFL prosecutor at the court? Are you just supposed to ask for him and state your case? My case is a morning one hence I am guessing they will be very busy and unlikely they will even entertain me, and in regards to £300 or something along those lines are you just supposed to offer it? or state you'd pay the fees as per the letter? Sorry for the layman questions once again, its just that if this is the final chance to try and speak to them I'd like to attempt it correctly. Also just a question once in the court room when the court asks if I would like to say anything, I understand about being remorseful etc but was wondering is that an opportunity to also mention what effect a criminal conviction would have hence asking them to please take that into consideration when making their decision, or is best to not even mention that as it is frowned upon and once you are in there and have admitted your guilt then you 'have to be convicted' anyway regardless of saying it would ahve an adverse effect?
  4. Hi Guys, TFL rejected the appeal by letter email stating i dont have the circumstances required. You know what I've had enough of this whole mess, i brought this on myself by my own stupidity in not checking what I was using and that is my responsibility. There are no excuses or free rides in this world and making mistakes like that are costly, evidently I have learned this the hard way. I will be attending court in person, pleading guilty to the bye law offence and as a friend of mine would say... 'manning up'. I guess I am v lucky that this is a byelaw offence and prosecution as opposed to section 5 for fare evasion and considering it is a freedom pass case.. I have read around this forum for the last 6 months and I have to say it is a ray of light having people like OC and others giving advice to us mere mortals who as honeybee put are lost and confused in this maze. Thank you for all your help and guidance, whether it is deserved for a lot of us posting on here I don't know but the fact we can find help is testament to the people on this forum. My day in court is soon and I will stand there and face what I have to face, a mistake is a mistake and can be very costly but as they say... "Every new day is another chance to change your life" A piece of advice to all those out there in similar positions or situations, all the help you need is right here on CAG, I cant add anything to what is said in these walls besides being grateful regardless of the outcome I face.
  5. Hi Guys, Just want to say thanks again for all the advice. OC you are indeed correct and I have emailed TFL with a genuine letter. I hope they consider the alternative disposal a good reason to want to settle. I understand my charge is not for avoiding a fare but in fact the strict liability breach of a byelaw and hence much less to argue. I guess I am lucky I was charged with the byelaw as opposed to section 5. Question I wanted to ask was in regards to the court summons it states to get your plea and documents in 3 days prior to the court date, means form etc. If I am attending court is it possible to take all this information, plea, means form etc with you rather then trying to send it in 3 days before? Just wondering. Thanks
  6. firstclass i think you are right about the 'serious mitigation' however i may still draft a letter/email. I think its fair to say it will cause trouble for any profession but it may vary depending on what you do.. i understand your example regarding the solicitor who was fined and convicted for fare evasion but from my understanding i would have to be charged with the railway regulation act to be convicted of fare evasion? as opposed to tfl byelaw 17 (1) - strict liability based on entering a compulsory ticket area without having a valid ticket.. a non recordable offence not the same as fare evasion, however still regarding as a criminal conviction as you stated...
  7. OC/first classx, in regards to trying to settle out of court and sending TFL a letter/email as I tried calling and they stated they would need it in writing with evidence of serious mitigating factors, in regards to this if you settle and you would like to make an offer of "220" for example can that be seen in a negative light, not in the sense the amount is not enough but rather it feels wrong to be trying to buy your way out of the problem? :S
  8. OC, when you say penalty fare what exactly does that mean? why is byelaw 17 different in that respect? is it still possible to call TFL and try to settle out of court? and I am still trying to get my head around how a bye law is recorded?
  9. Ok this is the confusing bit: 2) A conviction at the Magistrates' Court will land you with a criminal record, albeit one that only appears on Enhanced Disclosures. You would still need to declare it though if asked "do you have any previous convictions" on an application form/visa application etc. Travelling to USA etc becomes harder because you are no longer eligible for the visa waiver scheme, but will not necessarily prevent you from obtaining a visa. I have read countess examples which state that bye laws lead you to being convicted but this is only recorded at the magistrates court and not on a CRB. I am also then confused as people on this forum have also clearly stated that byelaw 17 will not give you a criminal record, it is not recorded, however is still a criminal offence and recorded at the magistrates but not on the PNC. Whether it appears on enhanced Disclosures etc is there no difference between a criminal record and a criminal conviction? Further to that regarding travelling abroad if this is not a criminal record and not recorded then do you have to declare it? Sorry for the laymans perspective but I genuinely am trying to understand this better.
  10. Hi Guys, It's nice to meet you all. I have been a lurker looking around for months now so have become accustomed to a lot of the regulars on this forum and just want to say thank you before I even start to members such as OC, Underground and others who take time out to give advice and help others. Now for the point at hand, I was stopped at a central london station this year and a family members freedom pass was in my possession, long story short, I was questioned by a TFL member, I had not realised I had used the pass as I also had my Oyster with enough credit to travel however as I have read this does not matter since it is my responsibility to know which card I was using. I got the letter from TFL asking for my side of events, I let them know about the Oyster and the fact it had been topped up that morning, they took this into account with evidence I provided however last week I was sent a court summons for the following: You are hear-by summoned to appear at Magistrates court.... That on (said date) you did entered a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket.. Contrary to Bye-law 17 (1) of the TFL railway byelaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the greater London Authority act 1999, and confirmed under section... of the Transport Act 1962. London Underground will be applying for the sum of ...... and the price for a single ticket. Above I have tried to provide as much information as possible, now having read through the statements etc and this forum I understand the the charge is not for the The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 which I understand is worse and relates specifically to fare evasion, it is in-fact for Bye-law 17 (1). I am guessing that due to the evidence I provided they decided not to go with proving intent etc and the RORA but chose a charge I cannot dispute - strict liability as I have read in other threads. My questions are as follows: I have read countless examples on here and other websites about Bye-law 18 etc but not very much on 17 hence am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about? and why does it state that it is exempt: "Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale". ? Next I have read countless debates on whether a bye-law and in my case specifically 17(1) relates to a Criminal Record and conviction, I am genuinely confused about this, is it in fact recorded? Is it a criminal record? Finally I am attending court soon and will update everyone as to how it proceeds to help others. I have decided to plead guilty based on what I have read in the summons and go in person. I have spoken to a family friend (solicitor) who is looking into the summons and whether to pursue or even attempt and out of court settlement with the TFL prosecution office. Is this worth following up? Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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