Hi, casting through these threads and posts it strikes me that many of the viewers and members have suffered at the hands of employers and their legal representatives. I have only gone a short way into my own ET process and yet already I have been subject to a number of underhand tactics which I feel are designed to undermine and unsettle me. In modern parlance 'I'm on a journey' - if so, then it feels like a slow descent into some sort of psychological hell. Many employers and their legal representatives have probably trod this path many times, but for the unitiated individual seeking redress this can be a strange land indeed. I'm beginning to get the impression that there are many old tricks of the trade which are routinely pulled on whose who are new to all of this. I'd be interested to see if we can draw upon our own experiences and offer up some short examples of these sly tricks, hopefully to support/warn those that will come after us? I can offer up this old chestnut to get the ball rolling.... The Friday afternoon email. Talking to one or two people from my own company who have taken our employer to ET, this tactic is as old as the hills. The respondent's side will send you an email late on a Friday afternoon. The content of the email may be contentious and upsetting etc; The timing is such that you will not be able to contact someone from the respondent's side until Monday morning - leaving you to fret and worry about it all week-end, which is one reason why it was sent to you at that particular time. Nowadays, when I recieve a Friday afternoon email, I leave it unopened until Monday morning and seek to have a relaxing week-end instead. I hope there can be some useful additions to this thread. After all, they do say hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Thanks transient, I'm concerned that my original OK to the paragraph (that HR were going to insert into their email to Legal) could now be twisted/presented by my employer as a 'signed' agreement so that I cannot use any of my contemporaneous work related emails/documents as evidence to support my claim! (And this is a discussion that never happened anyway). Good point about there being only one officer from HR. Maybe she over-stepped her authority and now this issue/behaviour is not something that my employer would wish to see discussed at an ET. That might go some way to explaining their reticence?

Hi, could anyone give me some soundings on this - it would be very helpful? I have an ET hearing due in several months time (with my present employer as respondent). A few weeks ago I was invited (at very short notice) to a 1-2-1 meeting with someone from HR. Ostensibly the meeting was about work in general. Instead, in the meeting itself I was challenged about working on my ET claim during work-time. Not a problem, I have been very careful to keep my ET activities outside of my working day. Later the same day, HR sent me an email containing a paragraph (relating to the meeting) which they were going to insert into an email to our Legal section.The paragraph looked innocent enough as far as it went and initially I didn't raise any objections to it. I did ask to be copied into the email that was to be sent to the Legal section (so that I could see it in context). By the next morning I had still not recieved a cc'd copy of the email due to be sent to Legal from HR. Instead I did have another look at the email that HR had sent to me the previous day. Whilst I had paid most attention to the paragraph to be used in the email from HR to Legal I had not read all the blurb that sat around it (it was a busy day in the office!). I felt sick. Taken as a whole, the HR email sent to me suggested that the HR officer and I had discussed my ET in detail (we hadn't) and that I had agreed not to use any documents from the workplace as supporting evidence in my ET (I hadn't discussed such a thing, let alone agreed to anything - it is a preposterous notion in any case!). I would not have discussed details of my ET action against my employer with anyone else other than one of their assigned legal representatives - a HR officer is not a legal representative. I emailed the HR officer with my concerns and asked to see all the emails relating to this issue. HR have simply referred me to our Legal section. (It turns out Legal put HR up to this ruse in the first place). Legal in turn mentioned LLP and have ignored all my requests for more information/dialogue on the matter. This behaviour cannot be legal can it? At the very least there is some form of misrepresentation going on here - the conversations referred to simply did not take place! Surely, at least I am entitled to see these emails? Or is my employer simply trying to rattle my cage a bit more before the ET hearing? Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Hi, the respondent has now supplied the names of their witnesses. At our initial CMD meeting (several months ago) one of the agenda items was a request for both sides to tell the employment judge how many witnesses they were calling and who they were. I fulfilled that requirement but the respondent did not. I recently informed the respondent that I would request an order from the tribunal instructing them to supply me with that information - hence I am now in receipt of the list. One or two witnesses I thought might be on the list aren't there. One or two I didn't expect are on there i.e. a couple of low level drones from IT. Worth knowing the names - I feel more confident of a positive result at the ET with every passing day.

Just a thought - it might be worth looking considering (the threat of) a libel action if the council have written a report that specifically blames you for the woes of the organisation and these statements are without any foundation in reality.

Hello there, it must a difficult time for you of course, and in such circumstances it might seem difficult to do what you think is best. Are there any union reps or trusted workmates you could talk things through with? I knew I had to leave my job - but it still took me another two years of putting up with sporadic management hassle before I took the step to go. I wish I had left sooner. If you feel that you are clear in your own mind that you would be happier to resign than stay in the job then follow your head and your heart and go. I too had said some confidential things to HR about work colleagues in my team which were later repeated to those same colleagues by HR. I felt angry about how HR had behaved - I didn't feel guilty about what I had said about those workers though - it was all true! Maybe your HR service should have been more careful with their records about what you had said. In short - most of the guilt may lie elsewhere and not with you.

In my ET process there was a case management discussion (CMD) meeting held by the employment judge inwhich the dates and manner of exchanging documents were sorted out. These meetings are par for the course. Drop into the website etclaims.com - there are resources/advice there that will explain things to you is a user- friendly fashion. (I'm a big fan of this website as a starting point (and book) - I wish I had found it at the beginning of my claim it would have helped keep me on a more even keel from the beginning). All the best, let us know if the site helps.

Hmmm, wait and see. Don't worry it might be nothing of consequence. Whatever it is bear in mind the strength (and focus) of your complaint - and therefore how relevant/strong are the words of such 'strangers' to the complaint.

Not a long ramble at all me duck. If you get the new job your present employer may be happy to give you a good reference just to get rid of you (and if it suits you both - go with the flow). If you have access to a Unite rep do talk to them. I am in Unison (at the moment) which is well... ummm, yeah.... Unite seem much more active in representing their members rather than 'working' with the employers which Unison seems to be up for - so I'd say you are in good hands with Unite - seek their advice, but from what you have written here you could be well set to get shot and start afresh. Nice place to be - good luck.

I hope you slept well. I am going through similiar concerns - I think my days are numbered with my present job. Erm, re sidewinder's advice - I'm certain you can put in/initiate a tribunal claim without having to exhaust the internal processes first. Under the pre 2009 rules you had to exhaust the internal processes first before you made a claim. since then you can initiate a claim - inform your employer you have done that, and action the internal grievance at the same time. That is my understanding - if anyone can clarify it further for you (and me) that would be fab. Good luck.

I have suffered work stress to the point where I have needed time off. Please look to your GP for assistance in this - they can be an absolute godsend in these circumstances. Certainly my doctor did not take kindly to my employer's behaviour - and she was very supportive to me without being antagonistic towards my employer. She was very good at asking me 'what do you want to do?' and advising me what could be done. GPs have to deal with the mental (and physical) health fallout from the bad behaviour of employers these days. Please seek out this support. All the best to you both - do remember that once this is over calmer times will come back.

There are several people involved in this and it isn't really clear who was meant to do what and when. The account of the hearing comes across a little confusing as well (sorry I have just got home from work) and this is account/thread is from a third person. It might be best to assemble all the documentation and sit down with a union rep or a solicitor for an hour or two and work through it. Keep an eye on the time limits for submiting a claim to the tribunal service if your friend wishes to go down that route.

It seems a very over the top response by your employer - perhaps it might have more to do with how important the customer is to your employer (that you had to pick up the second load from) than you yourself. Is there any chance of your employer cooling off and discussing reinstatement? Erm, might be worth 'googling' about explicit and implicit terms of employment which might help clarify things a bit for you - in that your contract of imployment isn'y just what is always just what is written down in your contract (explicit terms). There may be implicit understandings as well - perhaps what we used to call 'custom and practise'? (I'm no legal expert by the way - but there are certain informal agreements/work patterns that employers can't simply ignore if things go pear-shaped at a later date in the employment relationship). Are there any trade unions you can refer the matter to? I know at this point in time your may be furious - but do be careful (in the heat of the moment) what you may say to your employer or put in writing right now. All the bast

Indeed - seeking a solicitor;s advice would seem to be the best route for you to take. It's a contrary situation when the employee feels they have the upperhand to the extent that they are telling the employer how (and when?) they may leave.... some day. Maybe the 'mind games' are driven by the fact that your employee was there (in the practice) before you and feels that they can tell you what's what. The introduction of a third 'presence'/player (i.e. the advice of the solicitor - whether that be one-off on onging advice) will probably take the wind out of this employee's sails and embolden your own position enormously - "I hear your concerns, however the solicitor has informed me that, in fact, I just need to inform you that... etc; etc;... and I will be giving you your notice."

Hi, I see what you mean by 'multifacted' - I just picked up on your other 'older' thread. Couple of things struck me. Firstly your ex-employers seem to be successfully baiting you for a reaction. They may do this to try to unsettle you, and/or distract you (and the tribunal) from the main complaint and/or to see what they can prompt out of you in an unguarded moment. You should concentrate on working to/with the tribunal now - try not to react to everything that your ex-employer throws at you to wind you up. Secondly, and this is a purely personal viewpoint, I am worried about the level of detail about your case that you are putting up for public show in that thread. This is a site that can be viewed by anybody - and that might include your ex-employers chancing across it and realising it is you. I (personally) would not have written some of the points that you have put up for public viewing. You need to be more careful - you are in the process of taking a civil action against your ex-employer after all. .

Good luck with it all. I hope you draw strength from the thought that if they are producing nonsense already, imagine how it will hold up under oath before an employment judge and panel. It can be unsettling initially - but after a couple of readings of their statement and some reflection you might feel even more confident about a win. Might be worth having a look at this website - etclaims.com. Plenty of advice on there. The book the website supports (by N. Cunningham) is really useful as well - it has helped calm me down a few times when I need a steer on what I need to do next!

Ah right. Well, my employer/respondent requested a one month extension to complete their ET3 response when I started out. My solicitor advised that I agreed to that request - which I did. Didn't seem to do any harm - I just had to wait a little longer for the contrived denial they were probably going to trot out anyway! If anything, giving them more time, may have resulted in them producing a more convoluted/unbelievable 'defence' than they might otherwise have done! Given the time that may lapse until you get to tribunal a month may not make much difference to the hearing date. If you haven't had your outcome letter from the appeal yet it may also benefit you to have that document before you proceeed much further perhaps? It is your call - but what would be the real benefit to you to refuse such an extension? What happens if you need to request an extension at a later date yourself and the respondent says no (in retaliation to your refusal to their extension)? I get the impression that thr tribunal service see a lot of delays/extensions etc; - it may all be an expected part of the process. I was told by the employment judge who held my CMD hearing that there can even be wars over what goes into the bundle as evidence!!! At the time I (naively) thought it was a throwaway quip to lighten the mood of the meeting (fool that I am!). Now I am a little further down the road with my ET I have to say that is true - my respondent has tried tricks to restrict some of the documentary evidence going into the bundle. Do you know why they want an extension? (If I may play devil's advocate for a moment) They may have reasonable grounds for such a request. .

You are awaiting the result of your appeal? I take it that you mean an outcome letter from an internal appeal hearing (which usually is the last stage of the internal grievance process)?

Hi, when you write that 'they' have received the ET3 form are you writing about the repsondent or the tribunal service? Either way - if you are still in the (relatively) early stages of an ET - i.e submited an ET1 and the repondent has just recieved or submited their ET3 reponse - I'm not clear as to what other ET deadlines could be in place yet? Could you clarify please?

Ah - my ET? - I blew the whistle on internal corruption. Guess how my 'grateful' managers reacted!

The ET service will send this onto you. The business (the respondent) has 28 days or so to submit a response - but then there may be additional time before it gets forwarded to you via the ET service - especially if the response is only submitted at the last moment. The respondent can request an extension to the deadline - but the ET service should have informed you of that request in order to see if you would consent to such an extension. Worth contacting the ET service if you still don't see anything in the next few days though! Can't hurt to ask. All the best.

At my place it is five working days - but if a manager feels that it might take him/her a little longer, a greater period can be agreed by both parties at the meeting perhaps, or by email later. It can depend on the seriousness of the complaint/issue I guess. If it's an informal (Stage One) meeting/hearing - it's not worth busting a gut over really if it is a day or two late - you might just be made to look petty-minded. It might be important though if you are up near the upper time limit of putting in an ET claim perhaps. I put my ET claim in with (only) a few days to spare on the available time limit to make a claim. My employer had tried to make out I had recieved their letter to me a few days sooner than I actually did - hence inferring I was outside the time limits to submit an ET claim. Of course the date they put on the letter scuppered that ploy, but it didn't seem to stop them trying it on anyway!

Hi, glad to read you are feeling stronger and the ET accepting your claim is good news as well. Next up will be a response from your employers (which will be sent to you through the ET - the response is called an ET3 and I think is meant to be done within 28 days or so). When I first got my employer's response I was furious at the lies I found there. I left it for a few days and then came back to it a bit calmer - and realised on a second/third reading that I could clearly demonstrate to the ET that large portions of it was utter nonsense. So if they do invent things don't get too upset - they are hardly going to agree with you straightaway/completely - they have to take some sort of defensive position. Take professional advice on it perhaps. You and your ex-employer representatives may then be called to for a Case Management Discussion (CMD) where some discussion will take place around issues such as the timing/dates of the exchange of any documentary evidence between both parties, exchange of witness statements, when the ET hearing could take place etc; I went along by myself assuming that this was all fairly straightforward. My employer sent a barrister! Nothing awful happened; but it was also a little more involved than I had expected and I did feel a bit out of my depth. The employment judge taking the meeting was quite understanding - but what I should have done is read up a bit more on what it was all about. So I'd like to point you towards a website called etclaims.co.uk which is a regulaly updated and offers a great deal of practical advice. It works alongside a book called 'employment tribunal claims tactics and precedents' by Naomi Cunningham and Michael Read. The (latest) third edition came out in 2009 and it does a wonderful job of explaining each of the stages, I do wish I had picked it up sooner and I am glad I now have a copy. to refer too as I go along. It cost around £30 (less of ebay/amazon) and it can also be found at the larger libraries. The third edition is the one you need. It has heaps of good advice and refers you onto other websites and advice. You can tackle it at your own pace - it certainly helped take a lot of the worry of not knowing what I was getting into! I hope it might help you relax into the process a lot easier perhaps. One of the options I was offered at my CMD was a judicial mediation.Given the nature of your claim, the worry you seem to have and the possible legal costs which you think might default your way (if your employer doesn't pay) perhaps this option might be worth considering ahead of the CMD itself. It is free to both sides (so maybe your no-win no-fee boys mightn't be too keen on it) and can be offered by the judge at the CMD as a more stress-free, cost-effective way of resolving the issues. Both sides have got to agree to/request a judicial mediation. I believe it takes place over one day (usually); it can happen a lot sooner than the ET hearing itself and a lot of the adversarial element is removed. You would be in one room and your employer's representative in another room with the judge flitting between the two rooms hoping to find a solution. You can step away from the judicial mediation process at any time and still continue towards your ET hearing if that's what you would prefer to do. I mention this just to let you know that there is possibly a less daunting way of getting a result without the stress of several days in a ET hearing. Trust me I'm no legal eagle at all - I'm just a little further down the line than you. If I can point you towards the book and the website (and all the further info./advice that you might get from using that as a starting point) and take away some of your worry, and help you find your feet a bit so you can stand strong, then I'II be quite happy! (.... and I really should be going to bed - but I wanted to get this posted today/asap!) . Your claim has been accepted for a hearing - that is a credible start to build on now. All the best with it..

I am taking my employer to a tribunal. I was struck by the emotional content of your post. I think it is a given (I'm sorry to say) that your ex-employer and their legal represenatives will probably seek to undermine you and your case as it progresses. I have dug out a couple of books on employment ribunals and had a look through. I understand it is for the Tribunal to decide whether all or part of any claim may be struck out as being 'scandalous or vexatious or has no reasonable prospect of success' - it is not your ex-employer's representatives to tell you that. Even if the Tribunal were to strike out this (side?)issue relating to the absence of job references you still have your main/substantive claim of constructive dismissal. Furthermore I understand that if the Tribunal were to seek to strike out any part of your case for being vexatious they would firstly give you the opportunity to tell them why you thought it wasn't vexatious before they made any such decision. It might help to remember this is your complaint - not the lawyers. Since I applied for a Tribunal hearing I have often been asked by many people (on my side as well as the employer's side) "What do you want out of this?" - it is something I had not clearly formulated in my own mind at the time - I just seen it as the next natural step in the process of (finally) getting a fair hearing. I now know what I want and that is a comfort to me. It allowed me to be more focussed/strong. You say you are depressed and you wish you hadn't started the Tribunal process. You can step away and halt the process at any time. It is your complaint. Look at our substantive complaint. How strong do you and your lawyers think it is? And what do you want from your employer's as redress? Realistically, what might you get? If you haven't done it yet, I would sit down with your lawyers and try and bottom that out. I would also want them to explain/clarify the small print about charging you costs if they don't win the case. How can they be no-win no-fee if they charge a fee if they lose? That issue will be a constant worry to you all the way along that might hold you back from gaining a successful result. Try to get a clear idea of what costs are involved and then you can decide whether or not you will progress with the laywers you have hooked up with at present. You can still move forward with the claim under your own steam and their are other sources of support and advice you can still draw on. Perhaps if the reference issue can be sorted out with your ex-employer and your agency (i.e. so that you can apply for jobs and hopefully move on) it could allow you to focus clearly on your main complaint and put some clear water between what happened back then, when you were with your ex-employer and what you are going to do now to seek redress for what happened during that time. If you have a good case and can clearly demonstrate to the Tribunal what happened to you - you should feel strong - not uncertain. The other side will hope to make you feel uncertain and unsure. Don't do their job for them. I hope some of this helps. I know some of what you are going through. I'm sure we could do without it in our lives - but how would you feel if you walked away from it? What is best for your peace of mind and your health?

Hi, I am (unfortunately) having to go to through an employment tribunal process against my present employer. I had an initial case management discussion meeting (CMD) a few months ago. At that meeting my employer's legal representative stated that my employer intended to call several witnesses. The names of these witnesses were not listed in the CMD agenda - even though I had openly listed the names and number of my potential witnesses - and I had expected the employer's side to do the same thing for the CMD meeting. My employer's legal representative stated at the CMD that they (the employer's legal rep) didn't know the names of witnesses, just the number to be called. I have since emailed my employer's internal Legal section several times requesting a list of witnesses names. My employer's Legal section has not even acknowledged receipt of my email requests let alone supply me with the list of names. This refusal to name their witnesses has the potential to weaken my case. Indeed one or two employees which I have sounded out as potential witnesses on my side have instead bailed out (which is unfortunately somewhat understandable in these days of job cuts) explaining that they were doing so because they might actually be called as witnesses on behalf of my employer (which is a lot less easier to forgive I must say!). I'm not interested in recriminations against any of my co-workers who may actually stand as a witness for the employer (I really don't have the enery left for it apart from anything else). However I do feel that I should be entitled to know who may have been 'bagged' for the other side! Does anyone know if I do have a right to know who these employer-side witnesses are and if so, can I make my employer disclose this list of witnesses asap? Any advice would be most welcome.