They just stop posting. They don't send the last 'OK, you win' letter, that would blow their cover.

You haven't got time to ignore something so you pay up? Can I have your car reg? I might stick some meaningless paper on it myself!!

There is no definitive guide, every case is different and has different circumstances under which it is possible to make a judgement on whether the clamping was legitimate or not. Even getting your money back may take several different forms depending on circumstances. From the above letter you have quoted the Road Traffic Act - did this clamping take place on public highway, or in a private car park? It would be useful to see any signs, the receipt you were given, and better details of exactly what happened, how you paid (Cash? Credit Card? Debit Card?). Also it would be useful to find out who hired the clampers, as if you need to sue to get your money back, you would need to sue the people who contracted them - clampers routinely ignore CCJs.

Does it mention the legislation it is being issued under at the top (for example the Road Traffic Act)? My guess is no. The fact that it isn't called a Penalty Charge Notice is a bit of a giveaway that its a private invoice, not a real parking ticket. You should ignore this ticket, and ignore all the follow up threatening letters no matter how scary. The facts are that they are entitled to their actual losses only, which is a damn sight less than £30. Do not contact them, ignore all correspondence from them.

In five more letters, they'll owe YOU money.

OK, well done DBC!!

Well spotted TonyP. In order for any PPC business case to work, there inevitably needs to be an element of deception involved. Always has been, always will be.

What are peoples thought on these companys trying to enforce my own land... Its an outrage. What are the legal stance on PPC putting tickets on peoples cars in a residential area? ( regardless if they put signs up) Its my space which I own. So I have every right to display whatever I like parked in my own bay

Whatever it states in your lease takes priority over any signs or schemes the Management Company put in place. If it says nothing in your lease about displaying a permit then you don't need to. End of story. The Parking Company are trespassing on your space. You need to let the Management Company know that you no longer give implied permission for them to do this. They must then exclude you from the parking scheme. The only way the Management Company can operate the scheme on your space is if (a) they vary the deeds (and they would need your permission for that) or (b) get your permission to operate the scheme. Without your consent they cannot do anything on your space. The End.

Sorry Guys

But there seems to be a misunderstanding. I don’t work for UKPC or any other parking company. All I am saying is this. There are signs of warning were ever you go. If you take no notice of a warning sign then you must take the consequences. I myself have had a parking charge in the past and I have held my hands up and paid because it was my fault.

You should bone up on civil law then, and save yourself some money. Then you'd realise that signs can say what they want, but can only be enforced if what they say stays within the confines of what is permissible under civil contract law.

Leaving marks on your window might be construed as criminal damage. Send a letterto the Managing Agents withdrawing all consent for the parking company to trespass on your land and that any future tickets will be cleaned off professionally and the Managing Agents will be invoiced accordingly, you will hold them liable for the actions of their agent.

They've been on telly, Watchdog and Dom Littlewood if memory serves. A right nasty little company.

Hangin' On The Telephone - Blondie

Does it mention any legislation at the top of the ticket, such as the Road Traffic Act? Is it called a Penalty Charge Notice or something else (but similar)?

Is this the infamous pop-up carpark that Midway themselves own? If so, you may be in trouble as sueing them is pointless, and there is no landowner to pursue as Principle. Trading STandards however are well aware of these people, and it may be useful for you to contact them.

They are the company that are contracted by th church for this car park. I contacted the church warden who surprisingly was extremely rude and would not supply any of his details whatsoever.

Judging by what you are all saying i understand the following

1 it is illegal to force me to pay for alleged PCNs which happened prior to the clamping, whether known about or not, appealed, or not having enough time to respond to them if they were issued in the last 14 days. They forced me to make payment for these PCNs by threatening to remove my car if i did not.

2. I was not issued a receipt at the time of payment, nor was i supplied any paperwork on release of my car.

3. I parked at 3 am. I will get photos st the same time in the morning to show these signs are not visible from where i parked.

4. The clamper had id in his wallet, according to regulations it should be on display.

 

Thats all i can think of for now. Bearing this in mind what should i do next.

 

Thanks everyone.

1. Correct, the debt has to be established in a county court before you become liable. 2. This makes it 'NOT' a civil matter. This is in breach of legislation and makes it a criminal matter. If you are persistent enough and show them the legislation, the police MAY become interested. You will need to be pushy though. 3. Just when its dark will do, it doesn't necessarily need to be 3am!! 4. Again, in breach of PSIA and makes it NOT a civil matter.

Find out the official name/address of the church organisation/individual that hired these clowns.

A Letter Before Action states this at the top. Brief outline of what happened ("My car, reg XXXXX was clamped by XYYYY at TIME on DATE at LOCATION. The signage was insufficient to convey that I was at risk of being clamped, and therefore I did not consent to clamping taking place. The case law to reference is Vine vs Waltham Forest (2000).

I require you to refund me the full amount of £XXX within 14 days of the date of this letter or I will begin legal proceedings without further notice to you against XXXX [clamping Co.] and YYYYYY [whoever hired them] who I hold jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent [clamping co.].

Yours faithfully, etc.

Wait first to see if any others suggest any improvements or additions. It should not contain any emotive language, and can be very short and sweet. You don't need to provide any evidence at this point.

The terms have to be reasonable to both parties though. Depending on what they are pursuing the OP for, £75 (for example) after three hours free in a car park is clearly a punitive charge designed to deter the driver from overstaying. As such, its a penalty.

Your only worry might be if they were not hired at all, and were simply mugging you on someone else's land without any contractual agreement to do so. Sounds a bit like they might have been, although there are signs you say, and the clamping company on the signs matches the one you got clamped by? Lack of receipt is a slam-dunk for any court action you can bring. You need to tie them to whoever hired them though, really important. I know I keep banging on about it, but without this then your money is effectively gone unless you can re-persuade the bank to do a chargeback. Let the bank know that their merchant's (the clampers in relation to the bank) acts in providing the service were illegal (in contravention of the Private Security Industry Act 2001 Licences Regulations 2007). Tell them you can supply details and tell them you will go all the way to the FSO if they do not assist you in getting your money back.

Hi,

I paid this amount over the phone to them. I did not enter a pin into any machine. I also only got a authorisation number, not a receipt!

You didn't get a receipt from the clampers???? Are you absolutely sure? This is VERY illegal indeed. You might want to try and get the police interested but you'd need to quote legislation at them and escalate it a bit (the Desk Bod won't want to know, "Its a civil matter, Sir, its a civil matter, Sir" ad nauseum. The breaching of the Private Security Industry Act is a criminal offence as I understand it.

Interesting read - I had never thought of applying the laws of agency to clamping although cannot see why not - has there been any precedent where this was applied?

Loads, although I suspect I'm not allowed to name the website? You know, the parking one!! Under Agency Law, if a company or individual hires a contractor to carry out a process or service on their behalf then they are liable for their actions so long as they are going about the business for which they were employed. Money passing between the parties is irrelevant, if they are providing value (i.e. performing a service for the hirer).

Was it a VISA Debit? You might want to point your bank at this webpage: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-debit-cards/

You've been mugged in several ways here. Firstly the bank are programmed like robots to tell you that because you used your PIN there is nothing you can do. Was this a VISA Debit card by any chance? There is a chargeback scheme for VISA Debits although it doesn't carry the same weight that Credit Card chargeback does as it isn't backed by S.75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Regardless, entering your PIN is irrelevant and they are incorrect to tell you that this act invalidates your rights to dispute the transaction. You need to be rottweiller-like and keep at them, escalating as you go. Why not ask them to provide you with the details of the clause in their Ts&Cs that relates to this? They will struggle.

Secondly, you cannot clamp a vehicle for unpaid invoices. You need a court warrant, and of course, to get a court warrant they need to take you to court and win. Clearly in regard to the three previous tickets (they are actually invoices when all is said and done) they have siezed your goods without a warrant, which is illegal. The tow truck story is standard b*llsh*t.

You need to find out who hired the clampers to operate on that land. At the end of the day you need to sue the clampers AND the people who hired them. You have a pretty solid case (especially if the signs are not illuminated as you say - get photos of this, in daylight AND at night to back up your inevitable court claim). The clampers will inevitably ignore any court claim and any subsequent judgement, but the people who hired them are 'jointly and severally liable' for the actions of their agent under laws relating to Agency, and you ought to be able to enforce any court judgement against them. This is important. FIND OUT WHO HIRED THE CLAMPERS!!!

Your next step is to send a Letter Before Action to both the clampers and whoever hired them stating that you want a full refund or you will sue. If they don't refund, then you sue. More details on this when you get nearer. For now, try to find out who hired the clampers.

Your point about the SIA badge is another issue you can use, also there may be flaws on the receipt they have given you - does it contain the name, the signature, the SIA number of the clamper and the full location of where it took place? You can check if the SIA number is valid online, if the receipt is missing any of the above then the clamping was automatically illegal anyway in breach of the Private Security Industry Act. The signange and clamping for an alleged debt without a court warrant is strong enough on its own though!

Hopefully wispadog will come back, although his/her last post was 16 months ago. What tends to happen is that the poster hears no more beyond a series of threatening letters and hence does not require our services anymore. Anyone receiving court papers would have come back on and asked for more advice, I would have thought. VCS have no case under Civil Contract Law so the likelihood of them taking your husband to court is extremely slim indeed, and even if they did, their chances of winning are akin to wiining the National Lottery. Your husband should relax and ignore these people.

With the Stephen Thomas case he had something in excess of 30 tickets and had a poor defence, and was not terribly reliable when questioned.

Given the number of tickets he found it difficult to answer the question on whether he was aware of the risk associated with parking there.

He relied solely on 'I was not the driver', when in fact if he had also questioned the fact that the charges were unenforceable contractual penalties he might well have won.

Some people have even speculated that he might have been a patsy for the parking companies

- they certainly use his case quite a bit on websites and correspondence.

It has no bearing on your circumstances whatsoever.

Please cease corresponding with them, you are more likely to receive a speculative punt in court from the PPC, than if you simply ignored them completely.

They have suffered no financial loss as a result of you parking there. They have no case. Ignore all the letters until they eventually go away, no matter how threatening they sound.

Ha ha. If they had a solid case against you they'd have taken you to court by now, instead of implementing a Dutch Auction on the charges!! Shows exactly how serious they are!