Hi steampowered,

I do not recall agreeing to the agreement (holding the funds until property split agreed) and I'm still waiting for an update. Either way though it sounds like it's in place and this is this situation I'm in.

Here's are some extracts from the solicitors TOB letter (I've taken out relevant names):

It was good to speak with you a few days ago by telephone and may I take this opportunity to thank you for instructing XXX to advise and assist you in relation to this matter.

In order to formalise the basis upon which you instruct this firm I write to provide you with a Client Care letter and a copy of XXX Terms and Conditions of business.

I should be grateful if you would consider this letter carefully before signing the same and returning a copy of the signed letter to me at our XXX office.

This letter and the enclosed terms of business explain the basis on which XXX will carry out your instructions.

The objectives in relation to the work that XXX will undertake on your behalf are:

To advise and assist you in relation to the dispute as to the beneficial ownership of XXX.

The issues involved with your matter are:

XXX has now been sold and the proceeds of sale held on account. You are content to divide the net proceeds of sale equally with XXX but he seeks an increased share of the net proceeds of sale after a rough form of equitable accounting has taken place.

The options available to you are:

To instruct me to write to XXX setting out your further instructions in the hope that matters can be resolved without the need for court proceedings. In the meantime, and whilst you are considering this letter and forwarding a signed copy back to me, I would send XXX an email to confirm that you are in the process of formally instructing XXX to assist you in relation to this matter and that we will be in touch with XXX again as soon as we are formally instructed.

The next steps in this matter are:

You will:

Consider this letter and XXX current Terms and Conditions which are attached before signing one copy of this letter and returning the same to me.

I will then:

Advise and assist you in relation to this dispute from the pre-action stage to the stage where proceedings are issued and concluded if necessary.

Our Charges

B. Time-spent basis

Our charges will be based on the hourly rate of the fee-earner involved, according to the time spent on the matter. Each action on the file will incur a minimum of a 1 unit charge.

My hourly rate is currently £250 plus VAT [and therefore each unit of time/six minutes spent on your matter will be charged to you at a rate of £25.00 plus Vat). I will advise you in writing if charging rates are to be increased.

Routine letters, emails and telephone calls that I make on your behalf or that I receive will be charged in units of one-tenth of an hour. Non routine letters and calls made and received will be charged on a time basis of 6 minute units. Time spent will also include meetings with you and perhaps others; considering, preparing and working on papers.

Vat will be added to your charges at the rate that applies when the work is done. At present VAT is 20% .

If XXX do not complete the work, you will be charged for the work that has been carried out up to the date that you cease to instruct this firm. Our bill will also include VAT and expenses. XXX may retain your case papers and documents until we are paid in full.

Cost Estimate

Turning to the question of an estimate of my firm’s fees, it is always difficult to give an accurate estimate of what our charges are likely to be. However, on the basis of the information you have given me, I estimate that the next stages of your matter will involve liaising with XXXX with a view to negotiating a settlement which I estimate is likely to cost you between £500 and £1500 plus Vat.

Thereafter, I will agree each section of the work with you to include the cost of that work so that you are at all times fully aware of the work that we will undertake on your behalf and what we will charge your for undertaking that work.

As an overall estimate of the likely total charges in your case if it is necessary to issue court proceedings and the matter proceeds through the courts process I estimate that your charges could increase to in the region of between £7000.00 – £15,000.00.

It may be necessary for us to review the estimate of the total charges, but these will not exceed the estimate unless we have first discussed this with you and we have confirmed the revised estimate to you in writing. The cost estimates that we have set out above are not intended to be fixed charges and they exclude the fees of any Barrister, expert witness or Vat on their charges, and any disbursements such as mediation (disbursements is another word for out of pocket expenses).

Please be aware that it is this firms policy to not instruct Barristers or experts without payment of cleared funds from you. This is because we are liable for the Barristers or experts fees when we send out instructions to them.

In order to meet any initial expenditure I wonder whether you could make a payment of £500.00 on account of costs and disbursements within the next few days.

Hi steampowered,

Thank you, you are clearly very knowledgeable on this matter.

I am trying to clarify this' agreement' with the solicitor as we speak, I don't yet understand the reasoning behind it... was it in my interests and to protect me? Or to ensure the solicitors would be guaranteed more work further down the line...

I am trying to agree the 50/50 and have stated this several time with the ex-partner.

Does he have any grounds at all, on any basis, to raise a claim or the Part-8 against me?

Hi Steampowered, thanks for your post.

He is not named on the mortgage or anything else.

At the beginning we both invested the same amount of money to buy the property and furnish it and it was agreed we would split the property 50/50. I wanted us to put a declaration of trust in place but he didn't see this as necessary. All there is therefore are various emails about the property and what we both put in and that we said we'd split it at the end. Nothing is in writing or signed though.

Here's the email I got back yesterday from the solicitors:

"The money cannot be released to you, even though you are the sole owner, because when the money was placed on account it was done so on the understanding that it would not be released to either you or you ex-partner until either an agreement is reached as to how the money would be distributed or the court orders how it should.

The agreement is therefore between you, us and your ex-partner and as solicitors we have to keep to our word and cannot go back on any agreements made."

Thanks for the feedback guys, really appreciate it - I have emailed the solicitor and said exactly that. Will update when I get a response

I keep asking them this on email and I keep getting the same response - the proceeds are being held on account until the split is agreed. (I believe this is in relation to a previous legal matter, which went to court, although he didn't turn up, where he wanted access to records / accounts relating to the property). I will go back and ask again. I can never get the solicitor on the phone and so have to send emails and worry that each email is going to cost £30 odd quid.

Can they charge before your have officially signed the terms and 'instructed' them?

100%???

Well at this point tell him to go through the solicitors and he won't get anything.

Is he mad???

Yes, completely - he has a history of doing this type of thing

Are both the property and mortgage in your sole name ?

Yes, both were in my name only

Hi King1234 and Old Cogger,

Thanks for your posts, agreed, a settlement clause is a must.

I think both my ex and I are in agreement that we wish to avoid solicitors and extra costs. At the moment I'm saying 50/50 and he's saying he wants 100% so we're in quite different positions..

Hi all,

I bought a property with an ex partner many years ago. I managed the property for the first few years before handing it over to a managing agent.

The property was in my name as he was out of the country as the time of signing the mortgage. No declaration of trust was put in place but it was always agreed to split it 50/50 and there is an email showing this (and that intent).

The property was sold 2.5 years ago and following a previous legal matter, where the ex wanted access to the property's accounts, my solicitor at the time, who sold the property, agreed to hold the proceeds of the sale on account until we agreed the split.

Where I'm at is that I am still agreeing to 50/50 whereas my ex partner wants more (he thinks I benefitted from re-mortgaging the property which I didn't and various other things which are not correct).

My solicitor who dealt with the sale has now handed this matter to a Civil Litigation / Family lawyer in his firm who now wants £500 on account to get going and then £250 an hour + VAT. I simply can't afford this.

I see this matter with my ex dragging on and on (as have previous matters to cause extra pain and maximum cost) and I do not wish to rack up huge costs which will only benefit the solicitors in the end. Their quote of what it could cost up to would eat up the entire 50% share I am owed.

My questions are :

- can I handle this matter on my own for now?

- If I need a solicitor in the future can a junior, less costly person handle this? Anyone know how much or where to go?

- If I went to another solicitor what happens to the money held on account?

- What law prevents me from taking my half as it was in my name anyway?

- Can I be taken to court if we can't reach agreement?

- Is there any other information that could be useful for me?

Thanks so much - I really appreciate any feedback or input you have

This dear all email has obviously gone to all users of their rooms.

 

Walk away and ignore these amateurs. You only have to pay for the rooms used at the standard rate agreed and they can't apply any fine.

Hi everyone,

Just to give you all an update, I had a final offer to pay a goodwill payment of £200 a couple of months back. They they wanted £150 interest if I agreed! I have ignored their messages and have not heard back...

A big thank you to everyone for your input!

Not always true.

 

Was there a deposit on the purchase rather than a 100% mortgage?

If so, what was the source of the funds?

 

Was this "rather than paying 1/2 the mortgage each, let's say you pay the household bills and I'll pay the mortgage to simply the accounting"?

 

A constructive trust may have arisen. You have to consider the intent of the parties at the time, and their overall behaviour during, before being sure nothing is owed.

Thank you for all the replies. The deposit was put down by me and my immediate family. Currently she is still living in the house while paying bills only.

Hi,

I am currently splitting up from my partner who I have a child with and we are not married. I personally have a mortgage on the property which we are living in and it is in my name. While living in the property for the last 5 years I paid the mortgage and my other half paid the bills such as electric, gas etc.

My partner also has a property of their own which I have no interest in.

Currently we are trying to work out how to move forwards, she is telling me I should sell the house as she wants 50% of the sale of the property.

Where do I stand here? How long can she live in my property for or can I ask her to move out?

Hi guys,

So we have gone back and forth a bit, me requesting a breakdown and them just sending screenshots of the booking system. I have just received this email.

DEAR ALL

In the next 5 days there is going to be a major audit. If there appears to be any non payment issue whether bookings made without payment or cancelations without notification these bookings will be all charged at £50 per hour.

To avoid these high costs please check your bookings to make sure you are up to date and won't incur these extra costs.

Thank you in advance for your time.

What would you recommend?

They are set up as a company, I believe they went limited a few years back to be above board with the tax man but I'm not sure of the status of the house. The owner and his colleague often sleep in part of the building.

The business was set up by the owner of the property. They then converted the rooms within their house to be used for therapy. The issue is with the booking system, it allows users to book rooms without paying immediately, allows users to mark them as 'paid' and allows you to re-arrange. These are all things they are trying to impose fines for.

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your helps to date, it's been great help.

I checked with PayPal and they can't take any money from me / my account so that's a relief.

This is the latest email I received from them, below I will dig out the original email "contract" from them from several years ago too and post up later today

Dear ....

I don't think you would want a detailed breakdown.

We can use May as an example why I don't think a detailed breakdown will help but I could be wrong.

I sometimes am!!

MAY

Cancelled Slots Total For May - 11.5 - £575.00

You need to produce all emails to us for May stating you have cancelled those slot's or there is no credit. No emails then fines will be imposed. Can you find your cancellation emails for May 2015? Even if you decide 2 minutes after you've made a mistake. We need the email. This is reminded to you weekly.

Sent To All Therapists Weekly

1) Email us to let us know (you never have a credit unless you email us at the time you cancel off the system!)

I can do a detailed breakdown that but it would be even worse for the invoice, about £7,000 MORE!

Let's do an example for the May 11th 2015.

"Why Would It Be More -That's Ridculous?"

Because all bookings have to be PAID FOR when you book them. Every time you book you see -

Log In Page - 1)When you book please pay. All rooms will cost £50.00 an hour at all times FOR PAYMENT AFTER YOU HAVE BOOKED.

So if you back to the email headed MAY 2015 look at the screen shot for May on the right is the day you booked the slots.

Look at the right hand column on the 11th May you made 5.5 hours of bookings that were cancelled. Can you find the email you sent us to cancel those bookings on the 11th? If no - then there is no credit.

Sent To All Therapists Weekly

1) Email us to let us know (you never have a credit unless you email us at the time you cancel off the system!)

2) Cancel your booking on the system.

Look at paypal - no payments on the 11th (or the 12th) that correspond to that booking.

So that's an extra fee of 5.5 x £50.00 £275.00.

How I have I helped?

I have taken the whole month retrospectively.

I ignored all cancelled bookings and not checked your emails. I have just given them as credits.

I just counted the sessions you used.

The month referred to I do have copies of cancelled appointments that can be used as credit, and therefore moved. I have missed a few payments where I have booked a room and forgotten to pay but it's no where near 11 hours worth

Ha, no it is for counselling. Is this website any good for checking business rates: http://www.2010.voa.gov.uk/rli/en/basic/find

Is there a way to find out if they are paying business rates?

No they do not offer any other facilities. The rooms are actually in the business owners house which they have converted to therapy rooms. We have our own pin number to enter the building and welcome the clients personally.

The fine is for, paying for a room, then rearranging or cancelling the room without notifying them.

Upon rearranging or cancelling, the room becomes free again on the booking system for other therapists to book.

In addition to this I should note that £7,500 has not always been the final figure, it has gone up several times due to me asking for a breakdown.

- Originally it was £400, which rose to £1,400.

- It was then lowered to £400, which I agreed to pay. Upon asking to pay in two instalments the amount rose back to £1,400.

- Again I asked for a breakdown, this is when it rose to £3,500 and they sent me a PayPal invoice (This was yesterday).

- Again I asked for a breakdown and received an email quoting £7,500 and if I wanted a breakdown it was likely to increase.

That is great, thanks for all your help. I actually had a room booked for tomorrow (paid for) which they said I could not use until I paid their invoice. They did not refund me either. Since then they have blocked me out of the system so I am no longer able to use their rooms.

Thanks for all the responses.

- The rooms are charged at £15 p/h, if I used them for 1 hour 1/2 then I would pay £27.50.

- They are using the word 'fine'.

- In response to me telling them that I cancelled rooms which I had paid for, therefore I should receive credit, this is their response 'No emails then fines will be imposed.' . When they say 'no emails'. They mean no correspondence from me telling them the room is cancelled. I have simple cancelled the room on the booking system (having paid for it).

- The reply upon requesting a detailed breakdown: 'I can do a detailed breakdown that but it would be even worse for the invoice, about £7,000 MORE!'

- They sent me the invoice due to it being the end of the tax year and said they had to get it in.

Thanks for the response. I have requested several times for a breakdown of how they are working out but to date, all I receive is a screenshot of the booking system and a screenshot of payments received by me on PayPal on their account.

For instance it will show a room is booked for John for therapy on the 20th April. The booking was made on the 5th of April and I made payment on the 10th of April. Therefore a £50 fine is applied as I did not make payment at the time of booking (5th April).

Thanks for the response. Sure, I shall try to break it down further.

- I book therapy rooms for £15 via an online booking system, paying with PayPal.

- Sometimes clients want to rearrange, you can cancel a room and book a different date/time via the booking system, however the owners of the therapy room stipulate that you must get permission from them before doing so, not doing it yourself.

- Because I have rearranged my clients without asking for permission they have imposed the £50 fine, backdating to April 2015. Please note the rooms were paid for (£15) but I am being charged for rearranging or cancelling rooms. If you cancel a room, it goes back on the system and another therapist can book that date and time. It is not void.

- Over the last week they have sent me several emails telling me I owe varying amounts. Each time I request a detailed breakdown they dig deeper into my account an increase the fines.

- Yesterday they sent me a PayPal invoice for £3,500 in fines for rearranging my bookings.

- Upon requesting further information of how they came to this figure, they have now said it is actually £7,500 in fines. If I want them to provide more detail it will increase.

I hope that makes it clearer! Thanks for your help so far.

Hi,

I rent some therapy rooms and book via an online system. These rooms are billed at £15 p/h and I make payments via PayPal. The booking system is quite bad and lets you mark rooms as paid (without paying) and can cancel and re-arrange appointments without notifying the owners of the therapy rooms.

The owners stipulate that if you do not pay for a room on the exact date it is booked the a £50 fine will be added. They also stipulate that if you do not ask permission before re-arranging or cancelling an appointment a £50 fine will be added. This is not a signed contract, just simply an email they sent out last year.

In the last week I have received numerous emails requesting amounts in regards to fines for rearranging or cancelling appointments from April 15 - April 16.

Email One: Requested £400

Email Two: Requested £1400

Email Three: £400

Email Four £1400

Email Five: £3500 with a PayPal invoice attached

Email Six: They have changed it to £7500

In truth, I probably have rearranged many clients without notifying them before hand, however I have always paid for the room used. The amount they are requesting is solely for fines.

Is this possible? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. There is no way I could even give them this money if I even had it.

Thanks in advance!