I am baffled by your comment that you are considering accepting Judgment, rather than defending this claim...??? Don't you think it's a little soon to be despairing? You sent me a PM this morning and I responded this morning. So you are not still waiting for someone to get back to you! You have (if your calculations are correct) 3 weeks before your defence has to be submitted, so I don't understand what the problem is suddenly? Whilst I have said the two defences you have drafted are not suitable, there are ones that I have written that you can adapt and people like Rory and Tomterm are extremely helpful with drafting defences also! You are going to have to exercise some patience here, you won't be left to deal with it on your own, but those of us who write or assist with defences are very busy, which you have to appreciate. I am quite concerned by this latest message that you have posted and I just want to be absolutely clear with you that defending a Court claim is by no means an easy option. I'm not saying this with the intention of trying to persuade you to throw in the towel, (that's never something I would suggest) but if you are getting jittery and restless because you haven't had any responses since this morning, then going through the process of a Court claim will drive you mad! Nothing happens quickly once litigation is underway, so you either have to accept that things will move slowly and will not be resolved immediately or give up. If you're debt is over £5000, then you're looking at 6 months before the matter is concluded, assuming nothing happens during proceedings to prolong the case. I think you should take a deep breath and relax and simply view this a project you are undertaking, and that you are going to learn a great deal on this journey. Accept the fact that this matter has to be dealt with and that the best way of dealing with it is to defend and see the case through. Don't make a decision in haste, that you will spend the next 6 years regretting! Regards, Laiste.

Hi Electric, I have Application Notices. If you PM me your address and the details of your Mum's illness, I will take care of the necessary paperwork and send it to you in the next few days, to take to Court. You will need to cover the cost of me sending it by g/d to you. I trust this averts the crisis! Regards, Laiste.

Hi Car, It's me again! I'm not surprised that you haven't had many replies on your thread, it's very much out of the way here! I would PM a Mod and ask for it to be moved asap. Caro is very helpful. I would also ask for the Default Removal part of the title to be removed, as it might mislead people as to what your thread is about, and of course it's about a Court claim now. Regards, Laiste.

Hi Car2403, Okay, first of all take a deep breath, I can tell the Court claim has rattled you and I can understand why! Yes, they've issued it because you sent a CCA request, and it is standard behaviour from HFC and their solicitors I'm afraid! Secondly if you have calculated when the Defence has to be filed by, ensure you have included 5 days for service in addition to the standard 28 days. Regarding the Defence, you have until the 22nd Oct (?) to file it, so you need to stop panicking about submitting it! It can be filed online up until 4pm on the 22nd(?), so there is no need to rush, nothing is achieved by submitting it at the earliest possible opportunity! It is also most unwise to file it early and then discover that you should have included/not included certain information. I always recommend that the full time available is taken to allow sufficient time to cover all that is relevant and to edit out bits that aren't. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news and no doubt you have taken a lot of time drafting both the abridged and long Defence, but neither is appropriate, I'm afraid. Have a look at some of the Defences I've drafted for ideas as to how it should read. If you don't get the Defence right, Restons will file an application for Summary Judgment as soon as they receive it. I'm not trying to worry or scare you, I just know how the sols that work on behalf of HFC operate. So it's best to get it right first time to avoid having to file an Amended Defence and attend a Summary Judgment Hearing! If you want my honest opinion, you are wasting your time going to CAB, they will not be able to guide you in respect of the Defence or the case generally. You will get better advice here! If your thread is not receiving much attention, ask one of the Mods to put it where it will be seen by more people. Most people seem to visit the debt forums, so that might be the best place for it, if it's not already there that is! LOL:rolleyes: I hope this information has been of some help. Regards, Laiste.

Stays and set asides are different. A stay delays proceedings for a period of time, which is generally a timescale determined by the Court. Of course an individual can politely request that the case is stayed for ??? weeks/months/yrs-last bit only joking! lol A set aside basically overturns a Judgment. It doesn't mean the Claimant cannot issue a further claim, it depends on the particular circumstances surrounding why a set-aside has been sought. Regards, Laiste.

What I forgot to mention last night also is that where you are challenging the legality of a Default Notice due to penalty charges being included in the amount that was claimed, said Notice therefore being legally unenforceable, that would also be grounds for securing a stay, as it comes back to the legality or otherwise of penalty charges, which has yet to be established. These arguments would also work where for example, a debt has been sold to a DCA and you are challenging the legality of the Notice of Assignment (NoA) on the basis that penalty charges have been included in the total amount claimed. I hope this is helpful. Regards, Laiste.

Hello everyone! Just wanted to say, for anyone who finds themselves in receipt of a Court claim. If you want to buy yourself some time maybe for financial reasons, (the cost of filing a c/c) or just to have some time to put together a c/c; the best way of doing this where penalty charges have been levied to an a/c, is to file an Application Notice seeking a stay of proceedings until the OFT case has been heard next year. It will be granted without any problem, so is the best way of securing a stay if you need to, whatever your reasons! I have a draft of what would be appropriate to include in an App Notice if anyone needs it! Hope this is useful! Regards, Laiste.

I will continue to offer advice based upon the strategy that I know works to get people out of debt permanently, so that they can move on with their lives! Zhanzibar, ultimately it is up to you what you do. You came to me for advice and I've recommended how you should proceed with matters. I wish you every success whatever you decide to do! Regards, Laiste.

Caro, The colour issue was not intentional. I had various problems and I'm the 1st to admit that me and computers don't always get along! Unfortunately that's how it came out! The yellow text isn't what I've written and if it can be altered, I have no problem with that. Laiste.

Laiste.... I doubt that you will ever see my point of view on this. Why would I? It makes no sense! However, at the end of the day, I know what can be achieved by following the methods outlined earlier and that's good enough for me. That's the salient point isn't it? It's good enough for you! Unfortunately though, as a strategy to help others, it is woefully inadequate and that's being kind. Any letters I have written in response to those received from creditors have not requested or reminded any of them of their legal responsibilities... but have mentioned questionable aspects of their business activities that they would prefer not to have disclosed in court. If, as you say, you have not raised any issues to do with the legalities of their business practices, on what basis exactly would a creditor be remotely concerned about what might be disclosed in Court, unless it was in relation to a violation of laws? For goodness sake Priority, you really are making tenuous points now! As a result, these accounts have been sold on to bottom-feeders whilst in dispute.... which has just given me more ammunition to use against them, if needed. Priority, your creditors have backed off, for now.....and therein lies the problem. You will have these matters hanging over your head, long after I've won my husband's case with HFC. Not so Laiste... we are talking 8 years ago on one of these now.... One of these? So not all of your creditors, then! I refer you again to the point above. From some of the messages I have read that you've posted The greatest letter writing skills in the world won't protect you from a creditor intent on getting his money, that's just reality, I'm afraid. For people like yourself, you face the prospect that one day soon the dreaded claim pack will drop through your letterbox. I heard similar words from the solicitor who'se advice was sought over a joint liability, £52k ex-repo debt.... yet this was settled out of court for absolute peanuts !.... F&F.... years ago too. Going to court would have been a huge gamble for me for reasons I can't go into on here, but they were in the driving seat on this one... which is why I couldn't risk going to court. However, while they believed (incorrectly) that they had nothing to gain by pursuing legal action.... they didn't do it.... and I came out of it all unscathed, so to speak. You clearly don't read my posts properly! Where do I say that people should rush headlong into Court??? Hopefully the 99th time will prove to be a charm; I am advocating that people PREPARE for Court from day one, so that they can file a cogent Defence and C/C, should it become necessary and they can then negotiate with the Claimant, so that the case doesn't end up before a Judge! To be absolutely clear, the stronger case you have built, the greater chance you have of staying out of Court, getting rid of the debt and the negative information on a credit file also! Such a scenario is not met with dread however, by those that are prepared for such an eventuality. As POET correctly points out, firing off letters left right and centre simply alerts the relevant parties, which will negatively impact on any Defence and Counter-Claim you will look to submit. Don't be naive Priority, Cheers !... You're very welcome! When you can't address the issues, just content yourself with a trite one-liner! Of course, younobody actively and joyously "chooses" the Court route! It's almost as though you're suggesting I am encouraging people to take the fight to the Banks and credit card Companies, which I am not! I want people to give these Companies enough rope to hang themselves, so that when they face a Court claim, they can draft a Defence and c/c which will ensure that the creditor settles and runs away, long before the case sees the inside of a Courtroom, because they are frightened of the implications of having to account for their behaviour during the 12mnths for example, when a CCA request was ignored! Are you saying that a CCA cannot be re-enforced if/when it turns up months after the deadline then ? Err No! If an (lets assume, enforceable) agreement turns up months/years later, then under the principle of off-setting, in all likelihood you will be able to rid yourself of a debt that you otherwise wouldn't, on the basis of the OC's/DCA's unlawful conduct. Why do you think I'm advising people to adopt the strategy I've advocated? It is for the very reason that even if a person is presented at some stage with an enforceable agreement, it won't matter because of the littany of unlawful conduct of the creditor! It's a pity you apparently can't seem to grasp what is blatantly obvious to all the people I help!Can you not see the logic behind my strategy, or are you just too narrow minded to consider it? I figure that given that I'm apparently arrogant, what's good for the goose etc.... Lol... ... we approach situations from different angles, that's all. My experience of debt hasn't followed the route that you believe is set in stone for all of us. YET! The simple fact is, when a creditor has decided your time is up, the claim is issued and you have to decide what you're going to do about it. As you say, you have never been issued with a Court claim, so you can't speak authoritatively on how best to deal with these situations, as you are not in a position to give any guarantees to the people you advise, that they won't receive a Court claim! Nobody can give guarantees about anything Laiste.... Sorry to disabuse you of your naive assumptions Priority, but a Court claim is inevitable, unless you are the kind of person that would prefer to give into a creditors demands! How else are they going to recoup their monies? Please explain and people can still lose in court on the day. Well of course they can, if they follow your advice and have no arguments to present! I don't prepare people for failure and they haven't! Even you lost the first round with HFC and you have more knowledge than most of us. Wrong! We haven't lost anything! One part of the argument can't be included, and in the scheme of things that's to be expected. Nobody involved in litigation expects every single one of their arguments to get the Judge's approval! Essentially, what you have to do is look at the situation the wrong way round. An individual is at the stage of having to file a Defence and C/C. Has any of the advice that you have been giving from day one negatively impacted on that person's ability to file a comprehensive Def and C/C? The answer is yes and you can't undo what's gone (or not, as the case would be) before when you are at that stage! Everything comes down to what is contained in those two documents and based on your advice, if I were to follow it, (hell would freeze over first obviously) whilst the sheets of paper wouldn't be blank, I certainly wouldn't have much to write! Laiste, if you want to control the boards.... then please go ahead. LOL lots! Could you be any more sanctimonious? Before you dig yourself in any deeper, I would remind you that I have posted 622 messages and come on here largely infrequently. You have on the other hand, posted up 2319 messages, I think it's pretty clear who wants to control the boards!I offer advice based on some extremely stressful experiences of dealing with creditors and DCAs first hand, for many years. I have been dealing with contractual disputes for people for about 17 years and latterly dealing with Consumer Credit issues solely. In addition to helping people on here with their disputes, I help people outside of this forum get rid of debts, which includes the removal of all damaging information from credit files also. I also secure compensation for people on the basis of the strategy that I advocate here and I am very successful at what I do. Whilst you believe that there is a certain arrogance to my opinions; my way of dealing with people's difficulties with debt, enables them to get back to a normal, debt free, life and avoid the worst case scenarios that sadly some people face when they are in debt. I think you'll find that the people I have helped and am helping would disagree with your analysis of me. People do not have to follow any advice that I offer and my ego certainly doesn't depend upon it. If you understand anything about projection, you will know that your last statement about ego reveals everything! Yes you want people to follow your advice and yes, your ego is fed by that need. I am solely concerned with people getting the right advice so that they can deal with creditors effectively and then move forward with their lives.....I don't know what your objectives are, but I do know that you are dishing out bad advice. That certainly isn't across the board, I have seen some of your posts and been very impressed, but you are so wrong about this. If an individual does as I advise, they will have a cogent Defence and C/C to present to the Court to win their case and before they know it, the matter will be OVER! Surely that's what people want isn't it? To be able to draw a line under the situation and move on with their life, rather than be stuck in no man's land for God knows how long? I assume that you don't consider yourself still there with HFC then ? That's just the sort of churlish and inane comment I would expect you to make Priority! By the way, have you got rid of all your debts yet? Are you in possession of a completely clean credit file? Have you received compensation from all of your creditors? Are you ever likely to be in the position I've just described? Would the answer be no? I am not a proponent of prolonging misery, I believe in bringing it to an end as soon as possible and certainly not on the creditor's terms! Why on earth would anyone want to put themselves at the mercy of such vultures? If you are giving advice that doesn't prepare a person for the prospect that they may end up in Court, then you are tying their hands behind their back effectively and they might as well give up and admit the debt! Any chance of agreeing to disagree... as I tried to do earlier... and letting this one go now ? I'm afraid you can't make the unfounded comments that you have without there being a response. However, I am more than happy to let this go now, I've made my position abundantly clear and people can draw their own conclusions! Regards, Laiste.

Hi Linz, Thank-you for your lovely comments, high praise indeed! I am very pleased that my advice has helped you both directly and indirectly and reassured you also. I am in agreement with you that for many people the prospect of Court is petrifying and I understand that entirely! The stark reality is however, if you are not making normal payments to an a/c, at some stage a Court claim will be filed.These Companies as everyone knows, play hardball, so why anyone would assume that they will be allowed to continue making nominal pmts forever and a day, with the Bank's blessing, when they know you own a property (for example) is beyond me! More and more people are getting into difficulties with loans and credit cards, so the worse the situation gets, the more aggressive the banks and credit card Companies will become in enforcing debts. I wouldn't disagree that it's probably possible to stave off a Court claim for a period of time, by sending various letters to creditors, but eventually it will happen! As far as I'm concerned, if you know how to deal with these situations to achieve the best possible outcome from day one, and refrain from becoming fixated on avoiding Court at all costs, you stand a much better chance of getting rid of debts and moving on with your life. This has to be preferable to finding yourself living with the constant uncertainty regarding what the creditor might do next, and unable to plan for any sort of future for yourself and your family?!! Fighting back does take courage, but it's a lot easier than you might think! If some people have opted to write to creditors and challenge what they're doing, that shows a determination to fight back! A Court claim is no different! Whenever you are questioning/challenging someone else's point of view, you are making an argument, so there's nothing to stop you doing it in front of a Judge, if you have to! They're human beings as well and some of them are even quite nice! If you get a stroppy one, just imagine him sat on the toilet, he won't seem quite so intimidating then! Regards, Laiste.

Good morning all! I am very busy at the moment, so I'm sorry I haven't yet responded to your post yesterday Priority-I will in due course. Lets be absolutely clear, there is no difference whatsoever between chasing CCA request defaulters and pointing out the law to them! The distinction is being drawn without there being a difference! Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are inclined to send follow up letters, are you not making reference to the law, or are you simply making a polite request with no reference to the law at all? Priority, your creditors have backed off, for now.....and therein lies the problem. You will have these matters hanging over your head, long after I've won my husband's case with HFC. The greatest letter writing skills in the world won't protect you from a creditor intent on getting his money, that's just reality, I'm afraid. For people like yourself, you face the prospect that one day soon the dreaded claim pack will drop through your letterbox. Such a scenario is not met with dread however, by those that are prepared for such an eventuality. As POET correctly points out, firing off letters left right and centre simply alerts the relevant parties, which will negatively impact on any Defence and Counter-Claim you will look to submit. Don't be naive Priority, nobody actively and joyously "chooses" the Court route! It's almost as though you're suggesting I am encouraging people to take the fight to the Banks and credit card Companies, which I am not! I want people to give these Companies enough rope to hang themselves, so that when they face a Court claim, they can draft a Defence and c/c which will ensure that the creditor settles and runs away, long before the case sees the inside of a Courtroom, because they are frightened of the implications of having to account for their behaviour during the 12mnths for example, when a CCA request was ignored! Can you not see the logic behind my strategy, or are you just too narrow minded to consider it? I figure that given that I'm apparently arrogant, what's good for the goose etc.... The simple fact is, when a creditor has decided your time is up, the claim is issued and you have to decide what you're going to do about it. As you say, you have never been issued with a Court claim, so you can't speak authoritatively on how best to deal with these situations, as you are not in a position to give any guarantees to the people you advise, that they won't receive a Court claim! Essentially, what you have to do is look at the situation the wrong way round. An individual is at the stage of having to file a Defence and C/C. Has any of the advice that you have been giving from day one negatively impacted on that person's ability to file a comprehensive Def and C/C? The answer is yes and you can't undo what's gone (or not, as the case would be) before when you are at that stage! Everything comes down to what is contained in those two documents and based on your advice, if I were to follow it, (hell would freeze over first obviously) whilst the sheets of paper wouldn't be blank, I certainly wouldn't have much to write! If an individual does as I advise, they will have a cogent Defence and C/C to present to the Court to win their case and before they know it, the matter will be OVER! Surely that's what people want isn't it? To be able to draw a line under the situation and move on with their life, rather than be stuck in no man's land for God knows how long? I am not a proponent of prolonging misery, I believe in bringing it to an end as soon as possible and certainly not on the creditor's terms! Why on earth would anyone want to put themselves at the mercy of such vultures? If you are giving advice that doesn't prepare a person for the prospect that they may end up in Court, then you are tying their hands behind their back effectively and they might as well give up and admit the debt! The stronger arguments you have, the MORE chance you stand of keeping a case out of Court, surely common sense tells you that? Regards, Laiste.

Hello Priority. Thank you for your message. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to address the substantive points you have raised, but I will respond later this evening to your comments. Some of your remarks are misleading and insulting, but I will deal with those later, and as you say we can move on...... Regards, Laiste.

Hi Electric, This message has been a long time coming!!! I have advocated putting in the Application Notice to stay proceedings because it is the best course of action to take. You can't just "gen up" on the Wilson case and hope you'll be able to wing it! You have to argue your case on the basis of what's included in your Defence and we have not included the Wilson case. That's why I said a while ago that your Defence needs to be amended! It is quite common for Defences and Counter-Claims to be amended during proceedings and this may happen more than once. The reason being, as a case progresses, additional facts often come to light and the Defence, c/c and witness statements have to reflect this. Every argument that is raised in a case, either by the Claimant or the Defendant has to be detailed in those documents. This is to ensure that neither party is "surprised" at a Directions Hearing, or the trial, by any points raised by one or other party. The Judge took a hard line line with you and that was one of the reasons I said that it was imperative for you to amend your Defence. If you go along to the Hearing and start raising points that are not in the Defence, if you get the same guy, he is going to get very annoyed with you. Courts/Judges have a responsibility under the Civil Procedure Rules to avoid wasting time and resources, so if you don't follow the correct procedure, namely filing an amended Defence, (or file an Application to stay proceedings) he will want to know why you haven't followed the correct procedure. Furthermore, he will not allow you to raise arguments you haven't included in the Defence and will start giving you the third degree as to why you haven't filed an amended Defence. You have already got this Judge's back up, do you really want to go back for round two??? There will be notes about the case in your file at the Court, so you can't hope for an easier ride from any other Judge you may appear before, I'm afraid! I obviously have made reference to the agreement being unenforceable in the Defence, but I don't have time to look over exactly what's in the Defence, so you'll need to check that out. The only sensible way to proceed with the case is to file the Application Notice on the grounds I outlined in my PM to you, requesting that the case is stayed. Non production of statements alone is not going to end this case. You have no choice if you want to eventually want to win this case, you either have to file an amended Defence (and c/c in due course) or request that the case is stayed, those are the only (logical) choices available to you. If you decide to ignore my advice, understand the huge risk you are running in attending Court in October, it is a most unwise move. Regards, Laiste.

I need a lie down in a darkened room now, or a large glass of wine!!! lol The latter sounds better however.... I think it's easier if I simply re-type what I said earlier, I feel it might be the abridged version, before that large glass of wine..... Regards, Laiste.

Hi Bookworm. I have just received a PM from CagBot saying that my message was approved?!! Can you confirm whether or not it will appear, as I will not be a happy bunny if I type it all out again and then it pops up in the thread!!! Regards, Laiste.

I'm intrigued now....who is this person that used to post on here? Laiste.

After Electric posted up her message, I noticed someone had posted a message detailing websites and saying that Electric should visit those, as the sites were much friendlier! I assumed he was having a pop at me given that I'm a little sharp sometimes!!! Anyway, I ignored it and simply replied to Electric and now my post has gone!!! Mods can you please post up my message, I don't really want to type it all out again!! Laiste.

What's happened? My post has disappeared???? Laiste.

Hi Electric, As I've said in previous posts, the Defence needs to be amended, so you will not be in a position to argue your case based upon information that at present isn't included in your Defence! If you start arguing points that are not included in the Defence, trust me, the Judge is not going to be happy with you, especially if it's the same guy as last time! It is quite common for Defences and Counter-Claims to be amended during proceedings and for it to happen more than once, as very often certain information comes to light during proceedings that materially alters certain facts of the case. Anything that does change, has to be reflected in the Defence and c/c, and witness statements, so that there are no "surprises" on the day for either party! I have a lot of experience with Court cases Electric and I have given you the benefit of my advice, which is that under no circumstances should you attend the Hearing in October, you should file an Application Notice on the grounds I have detailed to put off the case for the time being, so that you can deal with it properly in due course. This matter involves more than simply "genning up" on the Wilson case, and it's certainly not something you can wing! Ultimately, it is your case and your decision what you do, but know the risks you are running by attending in October. Regards, Laiste:)

There is something I forgot to mention earlier....Given the ever rising levels of personal debt in this country and also the recent credit crunch, creditors are prepared to issue Court claims much sooner than previously they would. They are also willing to issue claims where previously they wouldn't have considered it. So anyone who has entered into some sort of pmt arrangement with an OC/DCA, shouldn't for a moment complacently believe that a Court claim won't be issued against them. The only loyalty an OC/DCA possesses is to the bottom line, which is profit and recouping debts one way or another! If making money/reducing losses gets harder and they have to do business in a more difficult financial climate, the first people they will go after are debtors, make no mistake. Anyone who isn't fulfilling their contractual obligation to pay, isn't protected from legal action by a pmt arrangement. Such agreements are not legally binding on the creditor and they can drop such an arrangement like a bad habit, if they are so inclined. This is happening more often and will continue to get worse, which is why it is absolutely imperative that everyone in this position starts collating evidence to use against an OC/DCA. The earlier this is commenced the better and for goodness sake don't delude yourself into thinking that it won't happen to you! There's a very good chance it will, so the better prepared you are, the greater chance you have of winning your case! Regards, Laiste.

Now, now, Curlyben get it right, Queen of the claim and counter-claim! Fancy only stating 50% of what I do, shameful! You're not suggesting that we go a little easier on DCA's are you? That would be tantamount to heresy as well as making me feel a bit queasy! Your sentiment is noble in trying to protect those vulnerable people who are in debt and haven't discovered this site, but sadly you can't! Whatever, you decide to do or not to do, DCA's will go after people they decide owe them, or a client money. In fact, the best thing you can do is sue the DCA's and hopefully put them out of business. The only way to deal with these bullies is to make them suffer. You can't negotiate or reason with these people, so why bother trying? Hit them with the full might of the law and watch them wither away....it's the only way, I'm afraid! That's how you protect the vulnerable.... Regards, Laiste.

Hi VV, If I am assuming correctly that you have given me the rep, I loved your comments! lol:p I am pleased that my post has helped you, it's all about knowing how best to proceed from the CCA request onwards. I just hope other people will read what I've written and stop chasing OC's/DCA's for agreements. On the face of it, pestering these Companies following the expiry of the prescribed periods for compliance seems like the logical thing to do, but it is the single most damaging course of action a person can take. Just because chasing the OC/DCA is the most obvious thing to do, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do! I hope my long post helps people understand why. Regards, Laiste.

I just want to make the point that I haven't addressed any of P1's or Curlyben's points in my reply to VV, because it's taken a while to write my last post! lol I appreciate Curlyben/P1 that for you both, Court is something that you want to avoid at all costs. Unfortunately however, it is not your decision to make! If you are not making normal pmts to an a/c, short of admitting liability for the debt, or agreeing to a Charging Order on your property, the Company that owns the debt has every right to issue a Court claim and you have no way of influencing that decision, I'm afraid. Which is why you have to plan for that eventuality as soon as problems start and do what will give you the best chance of winning your case, it's as simple as that! Recorded delivery is unreliable and risky and should not be recommended as a first postal option, without giving the appropriate warning about it's ineffectiveness. If people are advised what the risks are, they can then make an informed decision about which delivery method to choose. I have seen r/d recommended time and time again without any warnings, and for those people who are new to the site getting started with CCA requests and SARS, we do them a disservice if we don't explain why it is essential that things are or aren't done in a particular way. Regards, Laiste.

Hi VV, Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! It serves no useful purpose whatsoever to send any letters to OC's/DCA's once a CCA request has been made! In fact, if anything it will have a detrimental effect on your case! I have been making this point till I'm blue in the face and unfortunately some people on here are giving contrary advice, when they know nothing about the litigation process! Nobody can afford to take a narrow view of a situation once pmt problems start, you have to look ahead from a well rounded perspective. Hence why I say start preparing for a Court claim to be issued from day one! Consider the following two scenarios: A CCA request is sent to an OC. They don't comply either with the 12 w/d and go beyond the 1 mnth period, so they commit an offence. Having been told by people on here to pester the life out of the OC/DCA until you get an agreement or confirmation that one no longer exists, you start firing off letters after the offence has been committed. Within 2 months (for example) and after various letters you've sent, they provide you with an agreement. Lets for arguments sake assume it's enforceable, they then issue a claim and get Judgment, because aside from a few penalty charges totalling £300, you don't have a case against them, The fact that they didn't provide the agreement for 3mnths, is neither here nor there. So it's all over, they win and you end up paying them forever and a day and if you're really lucky they'll put a Charging Order on your property for good measure! Then there's the second scenario that for some bizarre reason I seem to be the only person (from what I've seen) advocating! The CCA request is sent to the OC and the deadlines come and go and they don't respond, in fact by all appearances the request has been completely ignored, which is great news, it's time to start monitoring everything the OC does! They send all manner of threatening letters and phone calls are being received 6 days a week, on average 8 times a day, all logged of course! You answer the calls, but refuse to go through security and tell them each time they ring to put everything in writing. You don't mention the CCA request on the phone, in fact you don't tell them anything about laws they've broken, you simply carry on making a record of all calls and in particular any abuse you're subjected to. The calls continue for 6mnths and then they stop suddenly. They sell the debt on to one of the lovely DCA's, having still not provided the agreement, but we're not remotely concerned about that! They start bombading you with letters and calls, both of which are much more threatening. You continue doing what you did with the OC. After 5mnths, they issue a Court claim. In your Defence you can confidently state that you requested an agreement 11mnths ago, (which you can prove because you have the g/d slip and it was signed for on ???) which hasn't been furnished. So, the OC has unlawfully sold the alleged debt on whilst being in default of the request and that's for starters..... You have been unlawfully harassed by letter and phone by both the OC/DCA in the absence of an agreement. The DCA has processed your personal info unlawfully under the DPA 1998, as they had no legal right to do so because the OC had no legal right to sell the debt. There are other offences under the DPA 98 also, but I haven't got time to list them all! lol You haven't been provided with a DoA, so they haven't proved a right to issue a claim. The NoA wasn't sent to you, so they can't enforce the alleged debt. When they do provide it, (as part of the proceedings) it's incorrect, so therefore unlawful on that basis also. It is a breach of confidence that your personal info has been provided to the DCA, which you can claim damages for. It is also an invasion of your privacy, which is covered by the Human Rights Act (HRA). They eventually get round to providing the agreement and it is enforceable, but it doesn't matter, they can't get round the DoA or NoA, so they're screwed-oh dear! So as well as having a watertight defence, you have a c/c for harassment, breaches under the DPA, HRA and breach of confidence for which you will be seeking substantial damages of course! If it turns out to be case that the agreement isn't enforceable or no longer exists, then both the OC and DCA are in even bigger trouble, as neither of them have any legal right to process your personal info and you have been harassed for a debt that doesn't even exist! I think that damages claim has just increased even more.....! Oh and not forgetting, there is the small matter of the "agreement" not being produced in 11mnths or at all! Which is going to look worse to a Judge, an agreement not produced in 3mnths or 11mnths? And, by the same token what looks worse, an unenforceable agreement (UA) produced after nearly a year, accompanied by harassment and all the other unlawful acts, or a UA produced after three mnths, at which point a claim is issued, which deprives you of the opportunity of building a case against the OC? So it all comes back to the issue of what to do when a creditor doesn't comply with a CCA request and the answer is simple.... do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Ignore the advice of anyone who tells you otherwise, they don't know what they're talking about! I hope this helps with your disputes! Kind regards, Laiste.