Cardiff Devil
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Everything posted by Cardiff Devil
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It's weird. It doesn't say "Cancelled" anywhere, and if I click on "Pay PCN now" it still gives me the option to enter my card details to pay £60. I'd be expecting to see that on there if I'd provided the name of the driver, which I haven't.- 20 replies
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- parking solutions 24
- parkingsolutions24
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Game, set and match. Logged onto PaymyPCN's website to check the status of my appeal and now have the following; Status: Obligation Discharged No information required The drivers obligation has been discharged therefore appeal information is no longer required. And the current balance has gone from £78 to £0. Guess that's that, then.
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Simply put, you have received the NTK, so now you just have to write back to Parking Lie telling them you're not liable for the charge, and that you are formally requesting access to POPLA. PE should then give you a POPLA reference number (this costs them £27+VAT, by the way). When you have this, you submit a written appeal to POPLA stating that the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the parking company or the landowner. POPLA will then rule in your favour, game over. The reason for your appeal to PE is not important, you just want that POPLA code. You could say that you were forced to remain in your parking space for a long time because a roaming family of endangered Sumatran jungle squirrels stopped in front of your car. For a template letter that you can use to send to Parking Lie, take a look at Parking Prankster's website.
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Just out of curiosity.. What date was the parking "offence", and what date did you receive the letter from Parking Lie? If it was more than 14 days apart, then they've tripped themselves up at the first hurdle.
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Correct. Ignoring was the most effective (and easiest) course of action before October 2012 when the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) came into force. Now they can pursue the keeper if they can't identify the driver (although there's still several hoops that they have to jump through). This is why we now recommend replying.
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Appeal sent. Watch this space.
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Yep, the address Armadillo posted is the one that's on the NTK. I believe that's the case, PCN Parking Solutions / Solutions Labs seem to just be handling the payment / appeals side of things. Although they give a separate address (or rather a PO Box number). If they're BPA members after all, I'll just submit the standard appeal, then smack them upside the head with GPEOL at POPLA.
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Good spot. I checked on there and it doesn't have any photos. Just has them as "pending". I probably should have said, on the NTD it says that the reason for issue was "Other", and in the box at the bottom they've written "on foot path". I checked with the driver on the day and they said that the car was parked in what looked like a normal space between two other cars. Having checked the car park on Google Earth there appears to be a footpath running between spaces in a straight line, if that makes sense. However according to the driver the markings on the road are quite badly faded in places and are unclear. Plus it is a poorly lit section of the car park and they arrived before dawn, while it was still dark.
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NTK, as promised, details redacted. Another thing I just noticed, the NTD is actually dated 27 01 14 . Seems these idiots can't even get the date right.
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Hi all. As above, new NTK from these goons above. Not heard of them before and a quick search on this forum turns up nothing. I will post up a redacted copy of the NTK shortly once my scanner wakes up, but in the meantime, a few interesting points of note; Their NTD (dated 27/01) bears a BPA logo, and on the back it has details on how to appeal to POPLA. The NTK (dated 02/03) has no BPA logo, instead gives details on how to appeal to IAS. A quick squizz at the BPA and IPC websites show Parking Solutions 24 as being members of the BPA. So their NTK already contains incorrect and potentially misleading information. Good start. Parking Solutions 24 have displayed in a big red box prominently at the top of the notice that they are "The Creditor". I thought the true creditor would have been the landowner, if any "credit" actually existed in the first place? The original PCN was for £60. It still is, but they've added an £18 "Administration Charge (inc VAT)". Apart from the £2.50 DVLA fee, and let's say a quid for the envelope and paper, what's the other £14.50 for, I wonder? The NTK contains no photographic evidence, nor any link or instructions to allow me to access said evidence. If I remember correctly this is a requirement under PoFA? Any thoughts before I hit them with the soft appeal letter? Cheers CD
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PCM are members of the IPC, so there won't be any access to POPLA. In order to comply with the terms set out in Schedule 4 of the PoFA to claim keeper liability, they should have issued you with a notice by post within 14 days of the incident if they are relying on CCTV or ANPR to capture vehicle details. Are they claiming you are liable as keeper under the Protection of Freedoms Act?
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White Moss Car Park - Parking With Ease - help
Cardiff Devil replied to Martynsa's topic in Private Land Parking Enforcement
They can "suspect" all they like. To be legally entitled pursue the keeper they have to follow the terms set out in Schedule 4 of the PoFA, which they haven't. They would need to prove that you were the driver if they wanted to take it to court, which they won't be able to do. Two choices from this point onwards, either ignore everything they send, or write back with a cease and desist letter, basically saying that unless they can supply proof that you were the driver, to leave you the hell alone, or face being reported for harrassment. -
Do it online at MCOL if you have the option, relying on prompt postage at this time of year may be a bit risky.
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Just follow it up with an identical letter but include the reg number and PCN ID, mark it for the attention of the person who wrote back to you and see what happens. Nobody may have told you to, but as I said it's just common sense. Obviously they can't be bothered to find you in their records using the name and address. Just play their game for now.
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Quote the reg number of the vehicle AND the PCN reference number, which really should have been included anyway as a matter of course when appealing.
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Generally it is advised not to quote all your arguments in your initial appeal to the PPC. That's why most people refer to it as a "soft appeal". It's not hugely important though. You don't really need to do anything at the moment. They have 35 days from the date the appeal was sent in to respond with a POPLA code. If they fail to do this in time then they are "timed out" from claiming the keeper of the vehicle is liable for the charge under the PoFA. After that they can only pursue the driver. However from looking at your earlier posts it seems you have likely already admitted being the driver in your first letter to them, so we cannot rely on this. By my reckoning they have another week to respond. Failing to give access to POPLA when rejecting an appeal, despite being repeatedly asked to is a bit naughty. If they haven't responded by next Monday, then you have to put them even further under the cosh.
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Expedion/ANPR 'fake draft' court claim received
Cardiff Devil replied to Binnz10's topic in Private Land Parking Enforcement
On the leaflet it says "free parking whilst in premises". Can they prove that you weren't using the premises at the time? I very much doubt it... Was "Jason Hughes" really present on the day in question and can he accurately recall a specific car being parked in a car park back in September of 2013? Probably not, if he had that kind of impressive eidetic memory I'm sure he wouldn't be working as a car park attendant, he'd be on "Eggheads" or "The Chase". Does anyone called Jason Hughes even work there? I doubt it. It's the same copy & paste BS that they send to everyone to scare them into paying up. By sending you "draft" claim forms, they're sailing really close to the wind of abuse of court processes, and can land in serious trouble if someone chose to pull them up over it. Ignoring these kind of notices was the standard advice given before October 2012 when the Protection of Freedoms Act came into force. Since we're well past the stage of using POPLA, just continue to ignore them unless you receive a genuine STAMPED claim form. -
PCN from PPC 'JAS Parking Solutions'
Cardiff Devil replied to bennymc123's topic in Private Land Parking Enforcement
Their tickets are neither valid nor invalid to begin with, it's just an invitation for you to cough up some money to their Xmas fund. There is an existing case precedent which states that they can't try and bill you if you go somewhere else, so don't worry too much about that for now. As said, wait for the NTK to arrive in the post. Keep the ticket somewhere safe in case we need to refer back to it later on. -
Obviously an ANPR entry/egress capture, this doesn't show how long you were parked, just the time in between entering and exiting the car park. For all they know you could have driven around in circles for 4 hours looking for a parking space. Either way, they are timed out from claiming keeper liability. My course of action would be a short but sweet letter saying "You have failed to comply with the terms laid out in Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 and therefore as the registered keeper of the vehicle I am not liable for the alleged debt. Please direct all future correspondence to the driver of the vehicle on the day in question." and leave it at that. For added oomph you could include "Any further attempts to contact me when I have made it clear that I am not liable for this charge will be considered harassment and reported to the relevant authorities". You are under no obligation to name the driver, despite what they may say. They must know that they've screwed up by sending the notice too late but are just chancing their hand on the offchance that you'll cave in and pay up.
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If the alleged parking "incident" took place before October 2012 then PoFA doesn't apply, and they can only try to pursue the driver. No keeper liability exists.
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UKPL - Failed IAS appeal...
Cardiff Devil replied to armadillo71's topic in Private Land Parking Enforcement
Laughable really. It's a fine and a penalty regardless of how they try and dress it up. It's hilarious how they try and claim that because they've called it something different, that it somehow makes it legitimate. Admin fees, seriously? Surely the cost of processing these invoices is part of the running costs of the business, save perhaps for the £2.50 DVLA fee to obtain keeper details. The rest of the work presumably is done in-house by people on the payroll as part of their daily duties. Also, VAT on an admin fee? I thought this was only applicable to tangible goods or services, not on an unenforcable fee tacked on to a poorly disguised penalty charge. -
This is exactly their methodology. They know that because their business model is so dodgy that they will lose 99% of properly submitted cases to POPLA, since their badly disguised penalty charges can never be considered a genuine pre-estimate of loss (plus POPLA charge them £27 per time when they lose). Therefore their tactics seem to be to put their fingers in their ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!" whenever someone mentions POPLA.
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PCN from New Generation Parking Management
Cardiff Devil replied to bevmillie's topic in Private Land Parking Enforcement
If they haven't left a NTD on the car, or sent one out via post within 14 days (and this isn't an ANPR capture) then surely they haven't complied with the terms of Schedule 4 and PoFA is not applicable? NGPM seem to be quite prevalent in S.Wales. They also cover the big retail park near Cardiff City Stadium, where Costco and Asda are. I was there on Sunday and was sat in the car watching the attendant going around. He was taking pictures front and back of cars parked in disabled spaces (presumably without blue badges) but not leaving any kind of NTD on the car. -
There's not really a template for this first appeal stage, as each situation is different. I would keep it short and sweet, and simply state that the driver had a valid ticket on the day in question. I wouldn't enclose that proof yet though, as it's up to them to prove that you didn't rather than for you to prove that you did. You need to make it crystal clear though that you are expecting a POPLA reference number if they don't accept the appeal. If they've got any sense they'll drop it there. Keep the ticket and receipt safe though, obviously, as you can present them at POPLA if it gets that far and make them look like a right bunch of clowns.
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Ideally we would need to see the original notices from UKPC. Have you kept them? More importantly, do you know if they claiming that you are liable as keeper under POFA 2012?
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