THE END: Had our meeting with the Master of the Courts today who recommended that we negotiate with the creditors solicitors afterwards. NEGOTIATIONS WENT VERY WELL AND THATS IT FOLKS - ALL DONE.

Vjohn, have looked up banking code as suggested no reference to the bank needing to take due care and diligence with customer accounts that I could use in defence. As you wil see I am now pursuing bank charges route. Can you elaborate on penalty charges, do you mean bank charges? Should I just send spreadsheet of bank charges and penalties to F.O. for their judgement and also use the financial hardship caused by the levying of such penalities. Thanks in advance

Am confused again, have i got this entirely wrong then - that people have been successful in reclaiming bank charges directly from the banks - not courts THEN bank charges can not be reclaimed. In Northern Ireland (assume you are not in NI?) court system is different. As regards being worse off re costs I believe that the bank have acted unfairly and therefore might as well be in for a penny as in for a pound (or is that vice versa) As I said earlier a solicitor is no longer viable due to expense and legal aid is not available in this particular instance (stated by solicitor).

I really need some help here. Questions: Who should serve the Default Notice (creditors or solicitors). I have a letter from the bank stating that they no longer wished to provide banking services to us and would close the account by June 2010 if any debits were then received they would be returned with 'Account Closed'. The account is still open and active and we still receive statements. Was this letter the Default Notice Is it too late to get an SAR from them? I have not received the original summons sent to both of us or the Judgement notification (although as far as the Court is concerned it has been served once posted so not a defence) . I have looked up banking code of practice yet have found nothing regarding due care and diligence of bank to monitoring customer accounts. Once a judgement has been filed can I still reclaim massive charges on personal account Is an overdraft not a regulated creditor/debtor agreement or is this a grey area. We always had an agreement drawn up on other overdrafts of course the error was not in this case (bank's error) Is there anything else (I'm sure there is) that I need to look at. Thanks in advance

Thanks again for coming back to me Not a business account, personal joint account. The Bank of Ireland (UK branch). We still have an ongoing healthy relationship with its parent company, in southern ireland!!!! There is a possibility we could pay it off within the next 12 months but possibilities are not enough in this cold harsh climate. The solicitor although he deals in debt recovery not familiar with how to claim back charges or even how to apply a defence if anything but straightforward dispute. I'm a little confused here, okay know about test case last year but perhaps I am misinterpreting this (in my befuddled mind) but some Caggers seem to have claimed back successfully charges (is this a direct pursuit0. Should I just send a spreadsheet to the FO and let them deal with it (but it seems that they may have got the test case kicked out and unlikely???),

Hi Geoff, this is exactly what happened to my husband. Because of his age (57) and with great help from our GP he eventually managed to get early retirement pension. However, he had to go through great swings and loops and it was stated by them that he was not getting retirement on medical grounds but that he had elected to do so. I would contact site team for more guidance on this, I guess it depends on age, non or contributory pension but I dont know anything much to help apart from the fact where there is a will there's a retirement. Good luck:|

Caro Spoke to my solicitor, firstly in this case legal aid is not applicable. He, like you and others, reckons I have not got a plausible defence (viz a viz not disputing liability) other than trying to offset the amount with unfair interest charges causing further financial hardship. He also suggested that I do this myself which avoids his charges, which I agreed and think is a commendable suggestion. I have read a lot on forum re bank charges etc and have all our statements for past 10 years, we reckon on a quick check there is at least 15k charges in last 3 years (could be more, could be less going thru this painstakingly at mom). Can I pursue this on the basis of unfair treatment? Do I need to start another thread? In Northern Ireland we have to meet the Master when defending the case, can I use this defence (bank charges, obviously with evidence etc) or do I need to counter claim? I can also demonstrate how the bank whammied us with penalties once they found that they had in error extended us an unsecured overdraft. Even my account where the income was made up of ONLY child benefit and working tax credit. Despite the fact that I asked them to close the account it has remained open with charges still been levied at £3 per month! They also stated they were closing both our accounts as of June 2010 but they are still open with charges mounting. Yours comments would be greatly appreciated

HB, thanks again. I unashamedly admit to nagging my husband into consulting a solicitor about this in 2008 who unfortunately just had no expertise in pensions. He then went to a Pensions Specialist who advised him to write to the UK trustees asking pertiinent questions such as what would have been the value of pension in 2007 from 1973 ((as a final salary pension) also taking into accounts early retirement 3 years prior to official retirement age. Also to provide us with copies of transfer request, authorisation and why he was never contacted and counselled on this transfer (and then allowed time to consider viz a viz cooling off, if that is an appropriate term in this context). We had to make this request two maybe three times before getting a very vague response/. The only authorisatin was my husbands signature which was created and sent by HR Ireland to UK. It was also at this time that we became aware that they were still sending correspondence and statements to our very old last address. The Irish pensions/HR totally wiped their hands of it, when we questioned it on discovering it was an Irish pension, they were not interested and even got a doctor to endorse that my husband was in sound and sane health when he left the company. If only they had been as careful when they were dealing with his money. He had given excellent service and loyalty to this company and met 2 wives there:lol: We found out that the amount transferred was circa £300,000 in April 2000, 1 year after he took up employment in Ireland during these investigations but it means nothing to us if not calculated according to investment increments etc. My husbands only request on transfer was that he have continuity of service as colleagues had advised him this gave further protection to his final salary pension. At first OH very laid back, kept saying he thought that it was a couple of thousand difference and shrugged it off. Now that I am still looking for employment after 18 months and hardship has taken hold of us he is thinking differently (about time too). We have copies of all correspondence in 2008. Best, Aud1

Many thanks HB Absolutely nobody advised OH about anything ie that he had no need to have continuity of service or his funds transferred out of the UK pension scheme. No information received, first we know is when OH retires. In the past we never had to advise Pension Trustees of Change of Address It was the same company ( huge international bank). OH took early retirement in 2007 . Yes in UK we always had statements but not in Ireland. Silly as it sounds the form stated that we did not intend to ever return to UK nothing about mixing the pension schemes. The forms were just a typed up slip shod affair (we have copies). YES OH worked in Republic of Ireland from 1999 until 2007 . In the past OH never had to keep a eye on it in the previous 24 years and unfortunately OH not a keep an eyer on things (that's the ying and yang of our marriage:-)I do) Sorry don't know how to do that insert highlighted bit yet ! Have I clarified it for you. I really appreciate your interest and assistance. Thanks

My partner joined a non contributory pension in 1973. Despite being offered an opt out/transfer in 1990, partner and colleagues declined. In 1999 partner took up a new position with the same company in southern Ireland. requesting that continunity of service thus to allow pension benefits ie final salary to apply. OH was given forms by the Irish HR to sign allowing the transfer of the lump sum. At no time did the UK trustees contact OH ( in 2007 they had not even updated address from pre 1999) We did not know what the lump sum was or the exchange rate applied. The forms OH were given even said that OH must declare no intention of ever returning to the UK to live (how ridiculous our relocation was employment related not exile) We did move to Northern Ireland (part of UK) two months later and OH contined working in RoI. OH certainly was unaware, until taking early retirement after 34 years of service and at 57, that the funds had simply been put into the Irish scheme and obviously with no final salary pension. OH was always aware of how precious an asset this would be with still 4 dependent children. As a result of this pension is half of what we had anticipated and we are indeed very hard up. After 3 years do we have any recourse on the UK trustees or is it all too late ie 2010 versus 2007. Any directions would be appreciated. Thx Aud1

Debt creates fear, fear is reactive but transformed into a concern it gives you back control and allows you to address it more proactively. Fear creates a block that creates chaos (in an already chaotic mess). Debt is a blip, not a castastrophe, don't underestimate the problem but refuse to give into it. I try to live by this philosophy but I have moments where I flip back into panic mode (cos I'm a human whose failed but I know I can rise from the ashes again).

I am not worried that a sale will be forced. The value of my home (in todays market not c.2007) is about 1/20th of the actual debt. I have tried to sell it, without remote success primarily to relocate. I would welcome a sale so that we could relocate. In the event that such a sale was forced I would be able to offer other assets. To my knowledge the EJO in Northern Ireland work with families, and do not make children homeless unneccessarily. The enforcement of a sale was not the reason why I did the post but I appreciate that this may be the overriding concern of caggers. Believe me I am not naive and do know that even the most insignificant creditors can be the most ruthless. My solicitor is working to set aside the CCJ. All other proceedings are on hold. It was the F.O. who stated that they cannot interfere with a court of law ruling. I have prepared for legal aid (as suggested by Murphy69 - thanks again). Thanks for your interest

Got an email on 25th October from creditors solicitors reiterated that they had sent the summons, franked and with a return address. Then after going through that the ccj had been registered, they then demanded that we settle the debt within 30 days or make acceptable proposals to do or that their client will be forced to inform credit reference agencies. This sounds idiotic, a ccj is sufficient to black list you and credit right now is the last thing on our minds. Can't understand this as they know we are appealing and have a case with the F.O.

[/sizeThank you VJohn & Murphy. liked some of your points. Appreciate vigilance regarding house but right now there is no market whatsoever in Northern Ireland especially for the type of property I have. I have the case with the Financial Ombudsman but from what I read here they have little power but must wait and see. Actually I had thought that this , their ongoing investigation, should have halted legal proceedings until at least they had investigated. It also biases the case as the F.O. have no power once it has gone to a court of law. However, they are holding off until the CCJ is sorted. I just hope I am not wasting my money on taking on a solicitor as money is very tight indeed if the case is indefensible i.e. open and shut. The debt has risen £5k since May in interest charges alone plus legal costs. I have asked for a breakdown. We did have exorbitant penalties thrown at us once they discovered their mistake (up until them we had a very good relationship and until the downturn one of their prized customers - what a joke!).

[/i[/yes we repaid in full as per our Agreement in July 2008. We always ran an overdraft and met to have it reviewed in July 09. The Bank only checked it in Feb 2010 when it had reached its original limit (the limit we repaid in 2008). Of course I admit liability how can I not. It is the course of action that the bank took since realising their mistake and their undue care and negligence that allowed it to get there. We had responded promptly and at length to all correspondence so we would have not cried wolf at this stage of not receiving a summons and incurring more charges. I have a solicitor working on it now. What would be the point of using a defence such as hospitalisation (which I am not doing) if as you say its open and shut viz a viz admission of liability and the impossible task of onus of receipt of summons. It is not liability that I want to overturn but the manner that the Bank have acted after being offered voluntary charge on our home and repayments. I am not afraid of a sale being forced as that is something that could never happen. I do appreciate your repay though. I do know its confusing but just looking for some insights on this I need to see the summons first to ensure that is was posted to the correct address etc.

I reside in Northern Ireland and am looking for some insights on the following. In November 2007, we took out a £65,000 secured overdraft, agreement signed in February 2008. This was a one year Agreement. We requested a further increase on this in June 2008 but were declined until we repaid the above when they would review our account. We repaid in July 2008 (in full, as per our Agreement) and sometime in October 2008 my husband remarked that they had obviously extended our overdraft. In June 2009 we met with our bank manager to discuss repayment. We explained our difficulties and it as left at that. We kept in touch via email updating her. In January 2010 our overdraft was abruptly stopped and we were hit with major bank charges which actually caused the overdraft exceeding its limit. We received a letter that they needed us to repay immediately. We called our branch manager re bank charges etc and she informed us that they had just become aware that they had extended an unauthorised unsecured overdraft. For a period our account was frozen and my own account was then subject to penalties previously never applied, a cheque for £64.00 was returned despite being covered by a cheque guarantee card and funds being in the account. We offered a repayment schedule (unacceptable) and a promisory of paying balance when property was sold (unacceptable). June 2010 Letter from solicitors - we reply reiterating our proposals July, August, - nothing (we were told by CCCS a court date could take 3/4 months) In July I lodged a complaint with Financial Ombudsman citing undue care and diligence by Bank and whilst we do not dispute liabilities they should bear some responsibility for their error. Letter from their Customer Care in September stated whilst they admitted their error the responsiibility was with us and state that the account was been managed by Asset Recovery Unit. Sept 17th (day after letter) a Custody Warrant stated that Court had been held on 9th August and a CCJ recorded. October 7th OCL issued and registered. We have of course put a stay on proceedings, informed F.O. and are now trying to hire solicitors via Legal Aid (so as to not to incur further debt) Creditors Solicitors state that a letter and Special Writ of Summons was sent to us at the correct address on 2nd July. We did not receive it as we would have most definitely lodged a defence but apparently this is not reason to overturn as summons is taken as served once put in a envelope and posted? Again, they said that they sent a letter on 11th August informing us of judgement. 100% not received either. It is indeed strange that two separate pieces of pertinent mail have gone missing but I am prepared to go on Oath to swear that they never arrived with me however Oath taking absolutely pointless, I believe I n the past we responded (at length) to any correspondence re this debt. Have I got a case. I do know that High Court Debt Proceedings are merely paper signing and the majority of cases go undefended but surely the 1% of us must have the right to do so? I really need some help on this beginning to despair as many views but no replies. The tiniest bit of direction would be appreciated.