thanks DX

UPDATE: So today 4 years later 12/12/2020 a letter from the mists of time arrives today from Debt RecoveryPlus. "The time has come to decide how you wish to proceed regarding an unpaid parking charge you received in xxxxxxxxxx on 12/12/20. You may not have responded to previous letters due to an oversight. Now if you don't respond you are making an active choice. Our client reserves the right to take this as evidence of your intent not to pay" now pay in full £170 or payment plan £42.50 over 4 months interest free or do nothing failure to pay and your financial loss will increase significantly if your case goes to court and you are unsuccessful. with this choice we have to inform our legal team share contact evidence advise legal action starts. ________ will continue to ignore but thought should add to this old thread especially to show how they don't like giving up thanks everyone

I'm not being entirely serious with reverse invoicing

thanks Dave - (I continue to send these onto my sister for information) and If I get anymore I'll send them my own speculative invoice!

So I know the advice is not to contact these jokers however, my wife had a car registered in her name we passed onto my sister who was resident in an apartment block. The letting agent I believe failed to give her a permit to display or she didn't put it on or somesuch nonsense back in February 2019. The photos even show it on there. Now, while I wouldn't have bothered until the note to claim this is not my problem as such but is my problem. I informed them who was the driver, e.g. the resident who paid rent for that building and car space, all has been quiet until last week when I got this message to which I replied it's nothing to do with me - I added in that any further communication I have to deal with if they replied would incur an invoice for my time dealing with this matter Seeing as they aren't the police I don't believe I need to provide evidence I wasn't the driver either for their speculative invoice. -bearing in mind this address they are talking about is in Hampshire while I live about120 miles away in Devon and could not have been there at the time. As I said normally I'd ignore it until notice to claim but as it's being wrongly attributed to me I'm a bit unsure how to deal/proceed address this further. Any guidance gratefully received - I ain't paying for this, if it goes anywhere near court my sister is paying for it!!!! ================== email correspondence as follows ============================================================================================================ Message1 - (after speculative postal invoice received) 10/03/2019 -----Your Message----- 1) I was not the driver my sister-in-law ************ was as is using my old car - is insured for it and is resident at *************** and has a parking permit for her flat there. Therefore, I am not personally liable for any parking invoice you send to me - I live in Devon 2 hours from that address and was in Devon at the time some 120 miles away. 2) On receipt of your notice I confirmed with my sister-in-law that she has a permit for that area for the year and valid and displayed one. I had no such item on my car when I had it so this must be one of your permits. This can be seen in the top left hand side of the windscreen. I have circled your original diagram as your staff for some reason have not seen this. I await your early reply. Any correspondence will also be forwarded onto Ms. ****************** regardless as the driver and resident. ================================================== Message 1 reply Dear MRS ************************ This is an e-mail from Parking Control Management UK Ltd. Please do not reply to this e-mail. Your challenge has been received and allocated to your case. Please note that your case will remain on hold until a decision has been made. Do not make payment until you have received a response to your challenge as payment will deem the case to be closed. Parking Charge Notice : PC************* This message has been generated automatically. Please do not reply. ============================================================================================================= Message 2 22/08/22 -------------- Dear Miss *********** (now writing to my sister as you can see) We write further to our previous letter (attached) and note we have not received a response or payment of the full Amount Due/ Debt. Our client wishes to resolve this matter amicably and without the need for costly Court proceedings. Should you be in difficulty in making full payment then it may be possible for a payment plan to be agreed with you. We would also like to remind you of your ability to seek advice from one of the organisations listed in our letter should you need to. We invite you to make payment within the next 7 days. Our team is ready to try to work with you to resolve this matter without the need for Court proceedings and it is important you contact us upon receipt of this email. Please do not reply to this message. This email was sent from an unmonitored mailbox. Yours sincerely Gladstones Solicitors Limited =============================================================================================================== Message 2 Reply To Gladstones, I already informed you that Ms **************** was the driver and owner of the car you are talking about in March 2019 . No letter was attached to your email and should not be addressed to me anyway. Do not send me any more emails on this matter you should refer this directly to Ms.******************** Any further communication that I have to deal with on this matter will result in an invoice for my time being issued to you. Replying further to me means you are happy to accept and incur those costs. =========================================================================================================== Message 3 Dear LordLoz Thank you for your correspondence. We write in relation to a parking charge issued on 22/02/2019 at ********** ************ address here......... The parking charge was issued as vehicle registration ######### parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd permit. As this term was breached the charge was issued correctly. While you allege that you are not the owner or driver of the vehicle you have provided no evidence to affirm this stance. Schedule 4 (1) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which states 'The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle'. The vehicle was found parked on the Relevant Land not in accordance with the signs and the charge remained unpaid, therefore our Client had a ‘reasonable cause’ to apply to the DVLA for the Registered Keeper. This in turn provided your details. As you were the registered keeper, at the time of contravention, our client is able to pursue you for the full outstanding amount of £170. We therefore invite you to make payment in full on or before the 20th September 2022 to avoid further action being taken against you. Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows: Gladstones Solicitors Ltd Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows: Gladstones Solicitors Ltd Barclays Bank Account Number: 33028712 Sort Code: 20-24-09 Reference: 104087.18750 Amount Due: £170.00 Alternatively, you can make payment online at www.gladstonessolicitors.co.uk or via the automated payment line 0333 0230 049 quoting reference ############### If you fail to pay the debt within the timeframe specified, we have been instructed to issue Court proceedings without further reference to you which will incur further costs and which will be added to the value of the outstanding debt. ==========================================================================================================

Thanks for all the help, folks, in terms of whether to reply or allege harassment - well being harassed itself it is advised anyway not to respond to them in the first instance. So as Fruit Salad and DX says ignore until letter of claim and not confirm ID which is what I will do. As I said I note it here as part of the timeline, and just keep records of it for later if necessary. Not intending to do anything with it just yet.

i didn't say i was actually going down that road i said it would be in the background for later if necessary. As I owe them nothing then I'm not their creditor, in addition they have gleaned my number from somewhere & are now sending unsolicited text messages. I include this for update information only at this time as i now have 3 of them & appears to be 1 a week,last one saying they are now taking legal action

perhaps you misunderstand, the word hope is not looking forward to it in an emotive anticipated sense, it's to consolidate any harassment report in a technical legal sense it maybe but as i said a quick search shows that 2 texts can be enough to be considered harassment, A quick summary of Harassment from a law firm site is interesting, I've screenshot the texts & will keep them for future use. Harassment:- in the context of emails and texts messages, a course of conduct in harassment must involve at least two emails or two texts being sent to you, as well as the harasser sending the same email to two people. It doesn't need to be the same message on both occasions but they need to be related and not two isolated incidents. So, for example, if someone sends you a threatening email and later also a threatening text message, which are causing you anxiety, the sender is potentially committing a criminal offence of harassment. source: Cohen Davis Solicitors

further update on my text message from TRACE.... I got one, I now have two..... I'm glad I haven't blocked them yet.... from a very quick cursory google which I'll look into further, it seems one is annoying but no issue......a second one however, well that begins to go into harrassment. One was 26.04.21 the second 07.05.21 So a report to the Police and OfCoM as any cause of distress is possible. Suspect little help from Police but OfCoM maybe useful and anyways it all helps to disorient them a bit. I do hope they send another this Friday too......FINAL DEMAND and apparently CASE under review for potential legal action against me.....

tempted to block but also to leave as a record of harassment and possible data protection breach, as I saw in other posts similar had happened

that's interesting isn't it......I haven't provided them with anything, no replies at all ....my real life name is unusual so I expect it's not a huge task to find me...but....I find that intriguing that they have started to text me when never entered into any conversations or correspondence with them...

I've had another demand letter last week which is their standard nonsense from Trace so won't bother posting it up, however today's development was interesting when I received a text from them...... Looking at other posts on here with these clowns that's getting into bordering into data protection/harassment area..... will keep posting until/if i get the letter to claim but just deciding whether to block or not, my feeling is to leave it open, screenshot all messages and keep if necessary if I have to answer the LTC...... thoughts welcomed

lookforinfo, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that just related to official civil enforcement officers, i.e. Council Traffic Wardens, who are employed by an enforcement authority. That is local councils for instance or a private company employed by a council. PCM are a private company trying to obtain payment from a speculative invoice and have no authority to issue PCN's.

LookforInfo thank you for help. They can't have it both ways, she photographed the car but then when challenged about as I was loading chattels into van and car I moved the car she crossed to the other side of the street to try and hand me the invoice. I refused to take it so at no time was anything affixed to windscreen. As to the NTK I've only got one I believe Alleged parking was 12.12.20 NTK was posted 13.01.21 and give 15.01.21 Second letter is the Debt recovery letter dated 17.03.21. That's all so far.

thanks lookinforinfo, I'll have to get the NTK out but I thought they had between 29 - 5 days anyway?

thanks folks

debt recovery letter 17032021-copy.pdf My latest communication from PCM is this debt recovery referral to TRACE debt recovery. I'm assuming this is still threatening stage tactics as there is no official legal court letter to claim so am I still to ignore again. Please if you can advise as I assume that is the case but would be grateful for information confirming. Interestingly, I noticed that in the text which I circled in red that they have called it a Parking Ticket, and not a "Parking Charge" I don't know if that has any legal weight etc. as I believed only councils can issue parking tickets but thought worth mentioning

thanks Honeybee, that's all I wanted to know. Lookforinfo I don't have the window PCN, I moved it into street before she could put it on there and refused it when she tried to get me to take it. No sadly no pics I was on my own when she was trying to give it to me in the street/on public highway thanks

Sorry you may have misunderstood me, he hasn't advised anything at all - apart from being happy to admit being the driver rather than me. This is as they have had the same notices for their own car when my sister borrowed it parked it at her address & he has filed in the cabinet several notices from them over a couple of years now and not paid a penny farthing. They (parents) said were happy to take it over from me and just put them as the driver as they'd file it with all the other rubbish they've had from PCM. That's all I was asking TY

UPDATE: I have received the Notice to Liability to Keeper letter after 56 days. Now, I know I'm ignoring them personally till letter of claim but my father said straight away to put in his name as they have had past dealings with these clowns and has a file of letters from them and ignored throughout. He is happy for me to add this to his name so do I return this with his name on now OR continue to ignore? Many thanks LL

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions.... 1 The date of infringement? 12.12.20 2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] N Ticket allegedly issued but not put on vehicle - moved before could affix and parking employee attempted to put into hand in roadway has there been a response? n/a If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first. have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] YES what date is on it Date Posted 13.01.21 Date Notice Given 15.01.21 Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Not attached - online reference only to JPEGS PDFs attached 3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] YES 4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Not appealed yet 5 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd. 6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Southbrook Rise Southampton SO15 Residential/Commercial office car park - on a Saturday - loading vehicle with furniture/chattels, etc. PCM 12_12_20.pdf

cheers p.s. in questionnaire do you want me to fill in windscreen ticket part (as they may have made one but it wasn't attached to the vehicle - ) or NTK bit only?

great thanks very much - much appreciated

Thanks, To add more background, I don't make a habit of parking anywhere I want, I live in rural Devon where we don't have as much of this type of set up and had one POPLA appeal upheld when my OH overstayed in LIdl with Parking Eye. This lot aren't in BPA and all the residents there are at odds with them, they get spurious tickets themselves when parked sometimes at 4 a.m and told me the the employee who tried to give it out was crazy and doesn't listen and did similar to him. When my sister first parked agents didn't issue her a permit so she got one, when she used my parents car they got one. So far they have ignored all letters sent to them and put in a file that's been quite a while now. I'll have a think, information and advice on here can conflict with othersites so it's hard as a layman to know what to do.