Spider's car is possessed around the 18th March and you come along nearly two months later and state that I am "talking impractical and ill informed rubbish as usual."??? Chances are as Spider_Kel has posted no further updates in April or May, that his car has probably already been auctioned/sold? (I hope it hasn't and he was able to stop it, but the portents are not good?) Any cagger is to be applauded for positively contributing to these threads (in good faith), with help and/or guidance. But it is simply not on to make personal unsavoury comments regarding another Cagger's integrity, intellect, period. Your offering some 2 months later with "get some proper advice from trading standards" when Spider_Kel was looking for advice on how to stop his car from being sold, is hardly high up on the scales of practicable advice at this late stage, was it? As someone who has facilitated the same return sought by Spider_Kel and others, that of a vehicle possessed using a registered Bill of Sale, I would suggest, most would concur that relaying that same advice in an urgent and timely fashion back in March, was a good thing for Spider_Kel to be made aware of? By all means Seeker, feel free to challenge mine or any advice posted, and do give reasons why that advice may be ill conceived or in fact plain wrong. But when a Cagger informs another Cagger in good faith on a self help forum, especially those in desperate need of urgent direction, on how to get their vehicle back, you simply are not free to make Personal remarks about that Cagger regardless, or in fact any personal remarks personally directed at another Cagger for their contribution. Far better to reflect on the opinion or advice given without the personal jibe or even better, why not proffer advice of your own? You appear to advise people on a self help forum, to seek help offline elsewhere. This means that their experiences can't be shared. Great.....on a self help forum?? This is even strange as you have been a member of this forum since 2009 but generally appear only to critique other Caggers, but don't generally post an independent opinion of your own of how to proceed outside of simply suggesting they seek advice externally on a self help forum...Interesting. When you did give advice recently, you couldn't resist commenting on how grammatically wrong another Cagger's petition was and demeaned both their and your contribution by doing so, it simply wasn't necessary. Just a note, the moderators of this forum didn't feel it was necessary to deride that Cagger's efforts when they included a link to that very same petition in their last newsletter. Unlike you,they did this without a patronising comment to boot? But you felt uniquely placed to deride that cagger's efforts nevertheless? Shame on you seekeroftruthandjustice, more so if you don't use better judgement now and remove that offending post forthwith! Most on here, myself included, offer our time freely. All advice requires those who wish to use it, to do so after due diligence and applying common sense before taking any action, but it is for those looking for options in very distressing times when cars/bikes are possessed that this advice is aimed at. Urgent remedial action may not always necessarily be as easily available to some as by popping in to a local Trading Standards Office to get advice. Equally, most are in difficult circumstances already and simply do not have recourse to the funds required to finance initial legal representation in the first place which is why this forum is so pertinent. I was fortunate and secured my car back and got compensation to boot. If my advice aids another person to get their car/bike back than I for one am chuffed to bits for them. My battles with LogBook are truly over but I will never forget the pain and anquish suffered as a consequence. That, SeekerofTruthandjustice, is the only reasons why I contribute where I can. Hopefully, to good affect.

OK Because it is a civil matter and if you are causing a a breach of the peace than they are entitled to warn that a breach could result in the offending partie being arrested for such a breach after sufficient warning being made. If a valid Bill of Sale is presented than the police are not acting in ignorance and the civil matter is not made a criminal matter with threats of arrest. Unfortunately Drakhan if only situations like this were as easy to deal with as you suggest in your response but alas in the world of Bills of Sales and possessions of property using such archaic legal instruments they are not. The only solution that was available to Superoli was to pursue the collection agents and loan company through the courts as any alternative to handing the keys over would have resulted in him being arrested for breach of the peace whether you agree or disagree. I can talk from experience that although you obviously mean well, it is emotionally driven and has no real legal basis.IMHO Please note that I talk from experience as one who has had their vehicle possessed using a Bill of Sale, and pursued a claim through the courts and won compensation and the return of my Jaguar, so with respect, I do feel I can talk with a great deal of authority on this matter. If only to serve to others that there are no simple solutions to those that use archaic legal instruments like Bills of Sales, where innocent 3rd parties can be unfairly relieved of their personal property by ruthless corporate loan companies? Than yes it serves a use, but no more than that IMHO I only hope that Superoli was able to get his bike back, but assume alas, that the lack of any update to this, his thread may suggest otherwise?

With respect Drakhan, why have you elected to resurrect SuperOli's thread which the original poster hasn't updated since 2010? The incident was a civil matter so no taking of "Badge numbers" would have resulted in any change of outcome as far as the police are concerned, (or unconcerned as is their way with civil matters).Therefore no retraining is required The bike had been purchased over 2 years previously before it was possessed by the finance/loan company who had a valid Bill of Sale so it is not theft pe se. They were not bailiffs but agents who were acting on instructions from the owners of the bike (the loan company with the valid Bill of Sale). Any HPI check when he purchased the bike would have been over 2 years old in any case when the bike was possessed, so not sure if it would have made any real difference to whom has a valid legal claim to being the possessor of the bike when a valid Bill of Sale is held by one of the partie IMHO This was an unfortunate set of circumstances that resulted in Superoli, an innocent third partie losing their bike, it is in poor taste that you have decided to trivialize it by your resurrecting it with supercilious suggestions so long after the original posting and the loss of a very expensive personal item by the original poster.

Whilst your intentions are clearly admirable Nicky, I couldn't help but notice that your anonymity has been compromised for a handful of signatures in your petition?

Hi Haseeb, welcome to the Cag. Mopeds are generally low valued motorbikes of 50 cc engine size. They are not generally used for log book loans are they are low valued assets. I would be surprised if there is a log book loan outstanding on this. It is generally cars that are used as security not mopeds. I would wait for your log book and rely on the guarantee that came with your HPI check. There is nothing to suggest that a log book loan has been made on this moped. Regards Hip_Hop

Hi Christiansasha, Welcome to the CAG. I'm sorry to hear of your plight. The advice you will find in this forum will provide guidance and assistance. Obviously every situation is individual, but the only common thread is that many have travelled this road, so you are not alone in your circumstances. Others can and will help where possible. In the first instance, read everything on the forum you can. I know there is a lot but it will help you to know your options. Secondly, post a new thread as you have added to an existing one so it may be overseen as a consequence.A new posting on a new thread will get more attention. Thirdly without giving away personal identifying details, please give the forum more information. Without it none us will know the true situation and the options open to you. The advice given above to Spider_Kel would be the same for you as you want to stop them selling the vehicle and losing your equipment. Post all the details i.e where was vehicle when it was possessed Private or public land?? Is there a registered Bill of Sale if so can you post it on here (with Personal details deleted). How many missed payments etc How long ago was it taken? Get your letters off pronto if it was very recent as I have advised Spider_Kel. Lastly you have options, you just don't know what they are but you have asked in the right forum. Just give as much information as possible so that others can help. Remember time is of the essence but you are not alone. Hip_Hop

You are being distracted Spider_Kel. Whom are you accusing of canvassing new business? Also, I am not aware that Hermes Property or CC Collection have had any license revoked. Reporting it to OFT will not get your car back they dont take up legal cases for the individual in the arena of Logbook Loans in any case. as part of a process to revoke yes but not for the individual, alas. Alas, It doesn't render it void, only a judge can render it void and he won't if it has already been registered. IMHO This and your other anomalies are what you should put in your claim and a photocopy of this should be sent to all parties as it may take too long if you wait for the court to serve it on them as you will find the car has been sold in the interim and they get served days later with no car to retrieve! Try and find out who the account manager at auction house is for Hermes/Logbook Loans and send him a copy too that will send shivers up his backbone and put added pressure at the auction house if it is still there. Remember this is just a game to them. Most they win and occasionally one they don't, but on the whole they win because by the time the patsy has figured out that the queen was never there the 3 card conman has scarpered!. That's why it was a 20 Million pound a year business for LBL and they will use whatever other tricks/distractions are available. The OFT know this! That is your conclusion but the legal case is the legal case and that is for you to put in your Particulars of Claim and await a hearing and their legal argument too. Why is the title of the vehicle unclear? It's their property If they have a Bill of Sale that acts as security, and their property was on the highway they will claim that they have possessed their property. You are not the defaulter so they don't need to inform you they will say. They will suggest that your case is against the garage that sold you the car that was not theirs to sell. They will make a case that they have bought the loans from Nine Regions who are under administration(I believe) and they were making good a Bill of Sale that they purchased with the book loans of Log Book Loans. You will probably find that no Bailiffs were involved just collection agents. Remember you must make a valid legal case that they have acted illegally., I can't make that assumption for you just by what I have read here. I am not making light of your predicament, it's just I call a spade a spade and I tell it as it is. It avoids false hope and gets people to focus on what options are truly available. You need to get the legal process started let them know that you have issued a claim against them and that under no circumstances are they to dispose of your property whilst it is a matter of legal dispute. That should buy you 5 to 10 working days. Everything else is a red Herring. I assume their stance will be that they have the vehicle and it is being auctioned or put on ebay if it of low value and any monies secured will go against unpaid debt with a further claim to be chased if there is anything else outstanding. You will not be chased as you are obviously not the defaulter. Sorry for the long response but I do feel passionately that good advice is always helpful no matter if it isn't what people always want to hear. Just so you are abundantly clear on this. They will not be in the slightest concerned or worried that you feel they have acted illegally. None of these types of businesses are. It is only a legal claim and the possibilities of having a judgement made against them and costs that will make them stop in their tracks. It's all about losses. If their loss potential is greater than what they will achieve on disposing of this vehicle than they will think twice before selling it. Hot air alone will not cause them sleepless nights. A claim for loss etc will make them stop though and contemplate their next move. Remember this is just my humble opine nothing more. Good luck Spider_Kel! Hip_Hop

Spider Kel, I am going to cut to the quick here. You are a victim of of a previous registered keeper of your vehicle that took out a loan secured by way of a Bill of Sale. This Bill of Sale gave the lender the right to secure possession of their property if certain triggering events occur. The Bill of Sale is the transfer of ownership to the lender. The lender allows the borrower to continue to have use if they keep up payments and once loan has been fully repaid, the Bill of Sale is settled as the loan has been completed so no need for security.If they fail to keep up repayments they can possess their property provided they follow certain protocols. This is a civil matter so the police will not be interested. You need to go to the court tomorrow and fill in a claim. You need to write immediately by recorded post that you have started legal proceedings against Hermes and want them to stop the sale of the vehicle at auction. You need to find out which car auction the collection guys taken your car to and write to them too to tell them that you have commenced legal proceedings and that they must stop from selling your vehicle as it is a matter of legal dispute. If you wait one more day you will find that your car has been sold and you will be chasing shadows. Look and read relevant posts on the CAG but act NOW! Or you will be too late. A change in log book details gives the collection guys all the info they need. If they took the car off of a public highway than they are perfectly entitled to do so without a court order. Off of private property and it is a different matter, a court order is required. I am writing this quickly so that you have the bare bones to work on as I see no one has responded to your posting. See my earlier postings for further advice etc

Hi Tonycard, don't want to spoil the party but if your Bill of Sale is registered with the high court than you will have real difficulty getting any judge to pass judgement that your Bill Of Sale is void. Period... How do I know this? Because no Bill of Sale has been found by a judge to be void if it has been registered. I personally checked with a master at the High Court in London whom I was granted an audience with, when I questioned the validity of my BOS that was registered outside of 7 days. He simply was not interested and I was eloquent in my legal argument and suited when I spoke with him. He thought I was representing LBL! As far as he was concerned, if it has been registered, end of the matter. Will you find any precedent that a registered BOS has been shown and a judgement made that it is subsequently void? No.....Don't believe me? Find one....It doesn't exist but threads that state that their BOS are void are aplenty on the CAG. The same threads that allude to Bills of Sales being void and definitions of what void means but never any judgments. Sorry, but I see these circular threads that raise their heads over and over again. They are a distraction and offer a false hope. I'm just stating it as it is. Hip_Hop

Deleted as repeated below

Hi Sheardy147 , Nicky etc, If the BOS is registered at the High Court and the vehicle was taken from the public highway/street/road than no court order is required. The is it or isn't it a Void BOS, is a red herring, don't bother going down this route as your vehicle will be long gone. sold at auction. The Bill of Sale gave them the rights to take their property (if they bought the loans from LBL than the security is theirs too, IMO ). provided they satisfied the requirements after missed payments occurred, when vehicle was recovered, and they didn't take it off private property without a court order? You need to get down to the court and file for an injunction against the company who have actioned the BOS or serve notice against them by filling in partculars of claim etc and issuing it. Also Write directly to them and to Anglia who collected it,and the auction house that have received the vehicle in preparation to auction it that this is a matter that is the subject of legal proceedings and that they are on notice that if the car is sold in the interim they will be subject to legal redress as a claim has been issued. You need to do this now, otherwise you may find that the court takes days to serve the notice and in the interim, the car has been sold, and you will be chasing shadows. How do I know this? Because my car was collected by Anglia and taken to the auction house and I got it back with compensation to boot by issuing a claim against Log Book Loans and putting both Anglia and Enfield Car Auctions on notice too! Remember,You must act fast to stop the process in its tracks. You need to initiate the legal process and issue proceedings against CC collection immediately and put them on notice that they can't sell the vehicle whilst it is the subject of legal proceedings. This will only buy you time. It will not get you your vehicle back unless you have a valid legal claim that they took the vehicle unlawfully. You haven't provided any info so it is difficult to assess your current true legal position. Lastly I would start a new thread as you have hijacked someone else's thread. You are also more likely to get help if you can provide further details with all personally identifiable info removed so that others may come and advise. Adding your plight to another's thread means that it may be missed. Good Luck. Hip_Hop

Hi Pixychick, welcome to the CAG. Sorry to hear of your plight. Please note that the forum is open to all and that includes the ability for all and sundry to post anything too, which may not necessarily be strictly accurate and does lead to confusion at times, as is obviously the case with the interpretation of the title of this thread. As Martin3030 of the Site team has already confirmed in his response above, Nine Regions Ltd hasn't gone and their credit licence still shows as being current. So please do bear in mind that some titles can incorporate elements that are not strictly legally correct but that is the nature and limitation of all open forums. Not all posters are legally trained so it is incumbent on all to check and recheck before taking anything as legally gospel. Consequently not all interpretations can always be assumed to be totally correct which is why it pays to re-qualify everything and anything you read on this open forum wherever possible before making any assumptions to how they may relate to your own individual situation and circumstances. As far as your own situation goes, It would help if you could take the time to start a new thread/posting with as much detail as possible on your own situation with no personal information to obviously identify you. This will enable others to help you. At the moment you have simply attached your comments to an existing thread and your call for help may not necessarily be seen by all. Also there are some details regarding a missing person etc which are a little confusing and may benefit from some additional clarification being made . Good Luck Hip_Hop

Hi Nicky, read your posting on Loans 2 go but can not find any confirmation that they have acquired Nine Regions Ltd, Log book loans Ltd outstanding loans on the web. Where did you find this information? Also wasn't aware they had given up all appeal attempts, does the OFT confirm this? I ask as you state that we have got rid of them but I wasn't aware they had withdrawn from the appeal process completely, have they? I am also not sure whom you are referring to as starting at the bottom of the ladder? Are you aware of anyone currently in the legal process who have been instructed by a court that they must reissue any current POC's to another party as a consequence of their loan book being sold? As is common knowledge (more so since the banks/financial services of 2008 melt down),the selling of debt to others, has been big business and normal commercial activity. Be it the selling of toxic mortgages, credit card or any other secured or unsecured debt. If LBL have decided to sell their loan book to raise capital that is perfectly within their remit to do, more so if they have given up the fight to continue trading under appeal? Also, unless you are aware of the price paid for acquiring LBL's loan book, how can you know if such an acquisitions was an expensive purchase? By the way, this may all be academic if LBL have not sold their loan book Lastly I think I am right in questioning your point that whether a BOS is void or not doesn't determine whether a Credit Agreement is enforceable or not. Simply that a Void Bos is unenforceable. And I repeat my previous assertions on other threads that a registered BOS in the High Court can only be made void by a judge so without that being the case it is an empty blanket point in my personal opinion. I wonder who else has a current lawsuit outstanding with Nine Regions Ltd/Log Book Loans ?

DX Are you able to confirm whether the OP view point that all Bills of Sales from Log book loans are now null and void? As a victim of the logbook loans methodology and commercial practices in the past which you are aware of, I feel that it is right and proper DX to highlight when misinformation is peddled as fact, such as in this thread. I do not take this lightly regardless of any threat to be removed from the site for questioning an inappropriate comment in the circumstances no matter from which corner it emanates from. Misinformation about Bills of Sales all being null and void when this is simply not the case and is then relied upon, causes individuals a lot of pain. Period Many of us that were looking for answers in our fight previously against Logbook Loans and the recovery of our seized cars, spent many hours sifting through misinformation that was not corrected and consequently a lot of hurt and anguish was endured. That is not being lippy DX, it is a fact. CCTV and others are parading as fact misinformation that some may accept as fact and consequently will result in them losing their assets etc I had my car seized unlawfully and can celebrate my first anniversary of beating Logbook Loans and being in the minority of getting more in compensation than I loaned from LBL! There is nothing lippy about highlighting the seriousness of using misinformation in the fight against Logbook loans. Merry Christmas to you and all other Caggers fighting injustice

Not your most constructive comment out of your 22,240 postings. so I will assume you have no factual opinion on the OP's position on all Bills of Sales from Logbook loans being null and void?