bump! no boffins around yet?

okay for you english folks the answer to this will be easy i know, but given that I've been using scottish system it's new to me. I'm about to claim my parents charges thru the english courts and it's small claims ~£2,500. so does an allocation Q get sent out for small claims ? yours in ignorance! eco

I just send a covering letter with claim (this one is from my claim against BoS)

"I reside in Scotland butit is my understanding that The Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, as amended by the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Order 2001 applies to this case. In particular, Schedule 4 paragraph 8 of the 1982 Act (as amended) provides that as a consumer, I can raise proceedings where the company is domiciled, in this case England is where BOS, HBOS registered head office is seated and this is where I have directed and received all my previous correspondence regarding this matter.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that there is no clause in the terms and conditions with my contract with HBOS that confers exclusive jurisdiction.

In addition, if it is the case that exclusive jurisdiction applies; it is my position that this clause is an unfair term of contract in terms of UTCC Regulations 1999. Specifically paragraph 1(q) of Schedule 2"

hi all. i'm reclaiming my parents charges for them from rbs and it's ~£2,000. I live in scotland but am claiming thru english system and using Natwest's HQ address in England as that's where i got the statements from. got the idea when i complained to RBS in Edinburgh and got a reply from Natwest, i queried this and was told that Natwest took over RBS. My prelim and LBA went to Natwest and they replied with standard letter, so I will be issuing court claim there

hi, I've claimed on my bos current account which is now closed with an outstanding balance. the charges would more than cover this. I have done evrything and just been hanging back doing the court claim. was quite happy for them to pay it into closed account and offset the balance. BUT....i have £200 of charges on my other BoS account and I started the process with that. tried to take a balance and my card was witheld, so i wrote to bank..nothing. I tries telebanking to get balance and was told they couldn't access account cos it was closed. I was not informed or warned that they would do this. I have written again asking for explanation, quoting the banks response to my prelim ie they will get back to me in 6 weeks, stll nothing. so I'm now well pi***d!! so is it possible to get a cheque for the refund instead of paying into account? annd how do you do this. I always thought that they had the right to offset but I've read about folks getting round this. any ideas anyone

I thought they had a right to offset even if account is closed? interesting!

thanks for that. I'm doing my parents who are retired so every penny is better in their pockets!!

i notice on bong's signature the RBS goes back 15 years. anyone got that? anyone got a letter to that effect from RBS that would be prepared to let me use it? thanks

can anyone clear something up for me? i've used mindzai's spreadsheet, altho i've only claimed on 1 account and then i only claimed the charges. this time i am entering debit interest(interest paid on penalties). what i don't understand is when i enter the debit interest of say £30.03 that they took from me and date etc the interest paid is £28.25 but it doesn't seem to add the the interst charged on ie the 30.03 + 28.05. now i may be one sandwich short of a picnic, but can someone explain this please?

spiritgirl, my friend had exactly this scenario with link. they wrote that rubbish about s77-78. we wrote to Trading Standards complaining, enclosing copy of CCA and wrote to Link to tell them that we had done so, Link told TS that they would still be pursuing debt!!!!! but to be honest TS know very little... we quoted the law and the case law to TS. anyay she never heard another word from Link. so be proactive and sock it to them....you will feel so good when you do!

I think that morals shouldn't enter into it. The law is the law!!! As helshasnofury says, apart from having no money, when you are up to your eyes in it (as that poor couple who killed themselves) you feel dirty and ashamed,humiliated to talk about it; and personally i think that talking about morals perpetuates this. When you sick to the law it is much clearer. As I said in an earlier post, the responsibility to comply with the legislation is the creditors; they make plenty of money out of consumers and if they don't spend it on training and manpower, so they can make more profit,then more fool them. Every other industry has to invest in this.

Equally if debtors shouldn't use the law when they are in trouble, should we use it to get our charges back? same argument. we did go o/d; bounce d/d etc but we're using the law to fight back

unless they have gone past the 12 working days i would pay the £12.

think it's on general forum on consumer credit agreements thread

check peterbard's posts i'm sure he got letter from Head of trading standards saying categorically that an application form is not a properly executed agreement.

don't panic. you can reply to the court, on the form there is a section where you reply and state if you dispute the action, admit it and want to pay part or full etc. you don't have a ccj yet and you will be able to deal with it. if they didn't send you a default notice then you should also be able to get that taken off

i work in one of the most heavily regulated industries in the uk and it takes a lot of manpower to ensure that our systems and paperwork comply with regulations and the law. there are extra layers of admin and managers to do this. if we breach this we are sued and can lose our contracts, no excuses accepted, no one else to blame. perhaps if the dca's and banks had ensured that they were operating lawfully to start with this would not be happening now. it would have cost them money to cross their t's and dot their i's, but they would have everything necessary to collect these debt's. instead they saved themselves money and assumed that we, the consumer were ignorant and should be treated as such. well apparently not! very few of us, it seems to me, feel comfortable with dodging debt( me included) but the creditors are responsible for ensuring that the agreements comply with legislation and they bear the responsibility for the outcome, not us. they happliy collected unlawful charges, and bought debt cheaply to make huge profits so they should have made sure that they were actually lawful.

no, she doesn't need to pay it. these charges are the same kind as bank charges. jd williams operate under about 4/5 different names and are tenacious, but reasonably easy to deal with. send a CCA request (in library in debt forum) along with £1 cheque or postal order. they will have to send you a copy of the original agreement and more importantly a statment of account which will show what payments have been made and what charges added. it's cheaper than a data protection request. then you will be able to deal with them

it means they are chancing their arm!! send them(solicitor) a letter stating that you sent the cca request along with £1 payment(include copy of cca request) and that they received it on XX/XX by recorded delivery as confirmed by royal mail, that they have defaulted on this and according to the CCA 1974 they are in default and the debt is unenforceable until they supply the requested docs. you don't need to do this but i would as it is in your best interest to hit this on the head. i would also send this same letter to 1st credit. they are slimey to deal with, and will try all tricks but ultimately you will get shot of them

yep. just wait, and they're talking tosh there is no charge other than the £1. if needs be you can quote the act(it's in the library). sadly regards the copy of the assignment, they are right there is nothing in the act about supplying it. and as i understand it they would need to supply other people's data as well; i think they kind of get the debts in batches and other folks data is on the deed of assignment .

how did you get on? did you get it all done on time? let me know

it's Wilson v somebody..can't remember but if you check the general thread and "consumer credit act agreements" search for Wilson and you'll get it.

there is case law that prevents the debt being enforced even by the court if the original agreement cannot be produced. regardless of history of payments etc. If they produce the agreement after the period then they can have it enforced in court, but only if they have the agreement. As for the ccj you can apply to have it set aside if you can show that part of the debt was made up of unlawful penalty charges

yes, you will get a chance to provide further defence. and if by chance they come up with agreement you can show all your payments etc to court and negotiate a payment that you can afford, really. the court willnot look favourably on a creditor trying to force you to pay more than you can. as for what you put on your court form, i am assuming it is similar to scottish ones. so you are not challenging the jurisdiction of the court, but you are disputing the claim and defending the action( option 4 on scottishform) ie under section 77 &78 of the consumer credit act 1974 you have requested a copy of the original agreement in the correct format including £1 payment. that they received it on xx/xx. make sure you send the CCA request and send it by special delivery if you can. it's guaranteed next day delievry and you get the name of the signatory. so when you complete the court form put the date that it was received by them. you will have a return date on the court form, which is when you need to have returned it by. i would imagine that the 12 working days will be up by then. what is the return date on your form? don't panic it's not as bad as it seems. that was my worst nightmare, but when it happened to me i did exactly what i'm telling you and it was liberating, you'll never be frightened by that stuff again.

recorded are usually ok. apparently so many folks are writing to banks and dca's by recorded delivery now that they are being delivered in bulk and only one signature for all letters so it causes problems when checking. but with something that you really want to know is delivered, special delivery is best

you don't need to go into payments you've made yet, you can do that later. all you're doing is asking them to prove that they are lawfully entitled to collect this money. the fact that you've been making payments will not count against you. try this one, it's basically the one from the library with bits added.

Dca name & address

Date:……………………..

Dear Sir/Madam

Your ref:…………………………………………….

I do not acknowledge these debts and require that you supply me with the following before I will communicate with you further.

Firstly, I require you to supply me with true copies of the agreements that you refer to in these matters. Under the legislation contained within sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, this is my right. You should also provide me with statements of accounts. I enclose £1 P.O. / cheque in payment of the statutory fee for each account.

According to the CCA 1974 a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed appropriately is totally unenforceable and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You are required to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

Take note that this matter is now “in dispute”. Any legal action you initiate will be vigorously defended and contested.

Yours faithfully,

Sign……………………………

Print……………………………