Hi, just a word of warning, in my case and others that I know about, they give you little if no time to submit any further evidence for it to be re-considered before it goes off to the Tribunal. In my case the date of the decision was 10th Februry 2010, the date I received the notification that I had failed was 24th February 2010. The appeal was lodged on the 10th March 2010, and the reconsideration took place on the 16th March 2010. I was then told that any further evidence that was sent in would be considered by the Tribunal not the DWP! So it seems that if the evidence isn't enclosed with the appeal, it could be another 9 months before it is sorted out.

Hi Rae Thanks once again. you are absolutely right again! Both the Thrombosis and Diabetes are complications of Chronic Pancreatitis. I didn't include either on the ESA 50 or indeed consider them when putting my condition over as to how Chronic Pancreatitis affects my working ability. Of course they affect it, just as much if not more than just the initial disease itself. But, my thinking was only to indicate on the ESA 50 what Chronic Pancreatitis does and how it affect me as that was only the thing mentoned on my sick note. What they are saying is that because I knew I was suffering from these complications before I claimed the benefit and chose not to disclose them, ATOS were not able to test them in their examination of me. Consequently the DM was in the dark and only able to mark me on what ATOS tested. Coming now with them, will put the DWP in a position in them not having had the opportunity of having an independent medical examination. What they said was that if I chose not to explain all of my illnesses or complications when I completed the form ESA 50, they cannot be used on appeal as a reason or part reason why I should pass the ESA test at a later date. Likewise, if other illnesses or complications arise after completing the ESA 50 but before the decision is made, it is my responsibility to notify them of them, otherwise they too cannot be used in the appeal process. If they arise after the decison is made, they will form the basis of either a new claim/revised claim. It does seem a little hard that failure to notify means that they cannot be brought up at the appeal stage. They say that only the evidence/statements provided in respect of the claim and any subsequent amendments up to the date of the decisiion can be accepted as evidence in respect of that claim. All that the Tribunal will consider are the illnesses and complications that have already been ruled on by the DWP - nothing more , nothing less!! In other words - you can't just drop something on them at the appeal hearing without the DWP/ATOS having had the earlier opportunity of looking at the evidence and ruling on it. So bang goes my mental illness case as well. Looks like I will have to make a new claim for ALL of my conditions after the Tribunal hearing and start all over again Ummmmmm.

Hi thanks for the comments. Yes I can see where you are coming from, but they are not new illnesses, two have existed since 2008/9, one since 2004 and the other since 1995. I have only described the one I started with in 2004, and ignored the two from 2008/09 which are serious complications of the 2004 one, and completely omitted the 1995 one. So in a way there is only one 'new' one from 1995, albeit that two others are complications of the one they are aware of - phew - that's complicated!! So hoping that they will give me a pass on the one disclosed without taking into consideration any of the life threatening complications that have arisen on it since. (ie 2008/09 - well before the claim for ESA was originally made) Yes I can understand that they can only deal with the illness that existed at the date of the medical. That is there because any new illness that came about afterwards didn't exist at that time. In fact looking at it that way, the only 'new' illness is the mental one that originated in 1995 and is still with me. The other two ARE connected to the one disclosed, but that hasn't made my condition any worse as they were already there when I claimed ESA. Put simply, in 2004 I was diagnosed as having Chronic Pancreatitis. This is very dibilitating. Then because of that condition, during 2008, I lost the ability to digest food through lack of enzymnes created by the Pancreas and had a growth removed from the Pancreas which has left me in more pain. This then caused Permanent Thrombosis in both major veins that run through the Pancreas, leaving me with severe circulation problems. Because the Pancreas is now destroyed I then became Type 1 diabetic - insulin dependant which is not controlled. I then claimed ESA in October 2009. All I described on the ESA 50 was the effect that Chronic Pancreatitis has on my work ability as that is what is shown on all of my sick notes. I ignored all of the resulting complications and how they affect me because they were not shown on my sick notes. As I have mentioned before, I believed that it was sufficient to only give an overview of the illness as described on the sick note expecting that DWP/ATOS would contact my GP for a more detailed report on everything. Was I wrong!!! So effectively, all or most of the medical evidence I have gathered will be of no use at this point in time. It will of course be useful for any future new claim. The evidence will have to be sifted to cover only how the original illness affects me. ie from 2004 - date of onset to the day before the first complication arose in 2008. OK, I get that, so it has been a waste of time so far but not for the future. From what I understand so far is that they would not accept ANY new claim until the result of the Tribunal is known.

Hi everyone, I have mentioned this particular matter before, but today after telephone calls to both the Tribunal Service & DWP (Canterbury BDC) I find that I am no wiser and in fact totally confused! To start with, when I completed the ESA 50 back last year, I only described the effect that the illness shown on my 'sick note' had on my work ability. I was not aware that I could describe how other illnesses I also suffer from, even though they are not shown on the 'sick note', affect me. I believed that that was the correct way to complete the form, although I actually suffer from three other illnesses. All four each have a profound effect on my life, and the whole together is the true picture. I have now gathered evidence to support my 'case' even including the mental health element, being one of them that I didn't disclose, which goes back to 1995. I have been told by the Tribunal that the Judge will NOT entertain any other illness, even though it existed prior to my claim for ESA and was in existence at the time of the ATOS medical and still is currently, that was not shown on the ESA50. The reason being that the medical examiner did not test that for the effect of that illness and therefore could not be part of the appeal. It was suggested that I put in a new claim for a change of circumstances. Nothing has in fact changed - medically, just that the Tribunal and the DWP know nothing about the three other illnesses! I then contacted DWP, and to be honest they were also confused and said that they did not really know what to do. They did say that I could NOT amend the original ESA 50 and maybe the best way forward is to submit a new ESA claim with ALL of the illnesses described. This hopefully would mean a new ATOS medical so that they could all be looked at. I think this is wrong as that will put me back to the start again, and give ATOS another bite at the cherry. Besides which, How can I show that in the new claim, because it is less than 6 months ago since failing the medical, that my medical condition has deteriorated since the last ATOS medical - it hasn't - it's the same, with the same illnesses, or I have a new illness - which I don't have. Hopefully some kind person on here will have the answer I need with the relevant section of the Regulations that will force the powers that be to consider what I think , is natural justice!

Hi, I agree with you completely. It is becoming more and more 'them & us'! However and maybe side tracking this posting, there is another section of the community that seems to be doing quite well out of this mess. Those that are the 'us' but will do anything and everything to become 'them' at the expense of each and everyone of us. I talk about those that have no conscience, guilt or otherwise. I have heard over the past couple of weeks of couples that would do anything to get up the ladder a bit further, yet bleat that others less fortunate than themselves are getting something they want. I am aware of a couple that 'exist' on a very low wage, DLA, and max Tax Credits. Yet, the female has been operating a mobile hairdressing business for over 5 years earning in excess of £400 pw, none of which has been disclosed to HMRC. Tax Credits are paid out only on his wage of £14,000pa and they have two children. Both children are left with the grandmother for 5 days per week for in excess of 7 hours per day. Both children have been diagnosed with ADHD and both are receiving DLA. In the space of 5 years they have aquired and paid off the mortgages on a flat and a 4 bed detached house, both of which are now let to members of their own family through an estate agent. Rent is received for both properties via Housing Benefit. Within the past 3 weeks they have secured on mortgage another property - 6 bed detached costing £635,000. The mortgage has been obtained by using a ficticous employment reference by one of her brothers. Now to the point, she has been complaining that they can't access TWO computers under this scheme. She has found out what you have said, and is now complaining that both her children are disabled and desparately need them as they do not have the available funds. Suffice it to say I am not very happy - bearing in mind that last year they became married in the Maldives at a total cost of £29,000. And we pick up the pieces because we caused the mess we are in!!! Sorry to hijack the thread but I just needed to get that off my chest Grrrrr!!

Hi, I seem to be fighting everybody and everything. Still waiting for a Tribunal hearing date - failed medical in Jan 2010. Then the Pathways saga, yes I ended up as a volunteer to get some help. That was after telling JC+ that they were in contravention of the Age Riscrimination Act. Now I find that once again help is denied me because of my age. Just had enough. Am going to the JC+ tomorrow and wanting to know exactly why people over 60 are being discriminated against. If that ends up with a visit from the Old Bill - so be it!! We will see what happens - I am fed up with being told that the box does not fit me!!

Thanks Rae No I have not been in contact with my new MP. It was Michael Howard but he retired and was elevated to the Upper House!! Shame he didn't go one floor higher - would look good perched on the roof!! Tweeting away!! So have a new young lad - not met him yet, but what you suggest is a good idea. Thanks for that, it's my next step!! Heh hoh, whatever does the future hold?? Bye the way, do you have any idea what prison food is like? I am given to understand that they give special priority to the older person. The more I think about it the better it sounds. I understand they throw in an extra 1/2 ounce of baccy to keep the geriatrics happy.

Hi Rae Thanks - I am becoming a tad pi**ed off with all of this!! I thought it was simple - I am ill, I have mountains of evidence, everybody is telling me that at the mo I am not fit for work - will they give me what I am entitled to - not a chance, well not without a fight. Then I'm trying to be positive and thinking that maybe just maybe, there is a future for me - only to be told - hey mate you are over 60, you are not considered suitable for help because you are too old!! Then, as you say, they are expecting me to work until 65 - maybe longer, what on earth do they think they are going to do to help me. I am having to ask for help even plead for it, Noooooo way!!! This stops right now! I may be over 60, but they aint seen nothing yet!!! As I said the only way you get anything in this country is to be either a single mum with kids (wrong sex!) or a disruptive influence. I said before that I would probably get more help if I was a tearaway, on tag with an ASBO hanging over me. Well Kent's 1st wrinkly, out of control, hooligan is on the warpath - looking to be a candidate for an ASBO!!!

Grrrrrrr!!! Not that damn Age Discrimination thing again. Thanks for the link, I'll have a look and if it suits, there is going to be one hell of an argument at the local JC+!!! I really object to being 'written off' by anybody just because I am over 60. What is so magical with it? Do they consider that I am not a good prospect for help getting back into some sort of employment? Sorry, not having a go at you, just the whole system!!!

Hi Rae Great comment, but only you could say it like it is!!!!! I see where you are coming from, but I understand that the £93 pw is limited to only a 12 month period. After I presume you have to 'lay off' for another period of time so that you could do it again. I will admit that the rules are a little complex and maybe I am barking completely up the wrong tree about being able to work indefinitely for a maximum of £1040 net pa. A lot more research is needed me thinks. But the gem is there - shining somewhere in the distance. Thanks again L

Hi Rae Glad I made you smile again!! Yes there seems to be two options, 1. as you say - up to £93 pw net, max 16 hours, and 2. Work as many hours as you want as long as the net profit is less than £1040 for the year. The second would suit someone who is self employed who is starting up and unlikely to earn that as net profit. It would even make more sense as it is more than likely that an accountancy loss will arise for the first couple of years - quite simple, there are lots of potential expenses that can be set against the first two years turnover. With that and provided that tax was paid on at least the equivalent level of income in past recent years, you can set the losses backwards against that income and create a nice repayment. Additionally, 'working' for at least 30 hours pw or 16 hours pw if disabled, could result in a WTC claim!! It does seem strange however that they will allow this ' unlimited' hours scenario as it certainly clashes with the ESA claim that I am unable to work. Need to get that clarified asap. Maybe however, that is the reality of the Work Related Activity Group? Something which has been denied us by right! I have all this in mind, and it is something that I will explore when time allows after this damn appeal and DLA claim are sorted.

The latest!! Had a 'phone call saying that there is no discrimination involved. 'We are here to help people of all ages get back into the work place taking into account illness and disabilities' So then I asked why are you not offering me the same opportunities you would do so if I was under 60? 'We are, but it is up to you to ask for them ---- it is mandatory for those under 60 but voluntary for those over' Oh! right. So I've now volunteered for the Pathway to Work sessions. Guess who they are with - RBLI!!!! Had my first one yesterday and I was impressed with it as well as the knowlegeable young lady. (no! I'm far too old for any of that!!). Got onto the idea of working for myself and now know that I can do unlimited hours as long as my net profit does not exceed the average of £20 pw. Could somebody confirm that I have this right? Maybe there is something in this! All my job normally is is reading statements & accounts, reading financial records. From then on with research I produce a report from my laptop to be used as expert evidence in defending fraud actions. The RBLI are cropping up everywhere I go!!! Thanks

I hope everything has worked out for you. I must admit to being really shocked that they can work that fast!! Maybe it's because you have your ESA paid into a bank account. When I had your same problem it took over a week to receive my giro, after being told that the renewal 'sick note' had been entered onto the computer system!! Maybe there is something in this direct payment system after all. My normal 2 weekly payments are always at least 2 if not 4 days (if there is a weekend involved) overdue every time. Currently, I should have had a payment yesterday (1/7/10) but unless it comes tomorrow, it will be Monday.

Hi, DLA ? ummm Now I'm going back a while - 1995 in fact so the law now may not be that relevant. The idea of notifying them that there is a change is so that they can ensure that your child is receiving the right level. This is a responsibility of yours to do as per the original application made. It seems that on application to 'revise' they have the option to look at the overall picture again, not just ignore it and look to increase it. The danger in this is that even though you may think he needs more help now, backed up with medical confirmation, they can 'revise' any earlier decision even before the normal review date. This can and does happen that not only do you not get an increase but you will lose what you are getting already. Then you are in the appeal process etc etc. As you are in the lowest range, there are only three things that they can do, take it all away, increase it or leave it as it is. Most if not all that have it at the Highest rate, keep quiet about any change, good or bad in the fear that it will be revised. This is the case even if they are life awards. But that is benefit fraud. Way back in 1995 I had High Rate Care & Mobility and was honest about my health (well sort of - I made out that I was improving when I wasn't so that I didn't feel so much an invalid) Every time I told them that I could do something, I lost a bit leading to the whole claim being cancelled. But that was my decision, silly I know, but it made me feel normal for a change!!

Hi, without being personal, but in what part of the country do you live that has guys from the CAB coming out to complete appeal forms and review the medical report? Wherever it is, don't move!!! Down here in Kent getting to see anybody at the CAB is bad enough never mind having a home visit!! Twice I missed the 'first 10' and had to go home until the following day to see if I could make the numbers game again. Third visit was sucessful, after 90 mins got to see a lady who took my details and told me to go home. She said they would contact me in due course to go in for a preliminary chat. After 4 weeks I went to the appointment to explain my problems ESA/appeal etc. She told me to go home and await another appointment after she had received all of the documentation from the DWP. That was in mid May and haven't heard a thing since. So it looks like I'm on my 'Jack Jones' to get the evidence etc together. It's a good job I didn't need them to fill out the appeal form as I would have been well out of date with it!! You lucky thing. I wish you all the best and are CAB looking after the appeal process - Tribunal for you?

Great let us all know please

Hi one and all, My writing skills are OK, as is my imagination. The only trouble is getting the two to meet. I would go for it Rae, you certainly have a gift and you never know I might see the first edition on the shelves! If so, pleaseeeee could you sign it for me? Well after last night's episode of walking the boards until 5am, I had a brilliant phone call from JC+. They have confirmed, and I made them ring me back after double checking, that being over 60 means I do not have to go for the Focus thingymijig interview - I am too old!!! So I asked the young lady if it presumably means that I am 'abandoned'. And I went a bit further to suggest that this smacks of age discrimination!! The line went quiet for a while followed by some mumbling. This was followed by a rather more serious sounding female who asked what my problem was. So tongue in cheek I suggested that because of my age I am being discriminated against by not being offered the help others who are younger than me get by right! I found it very difficult trying to keep a serious tone in my voice. I pointed out that not only had I been found fit for work, it had been decided that because I am 61 I would be a lost cause and not worth the effort in trying to get me back into the workplace. So, 'where do you want me to park my backside then?' With that and her telling me that she had never come across this before and more or less pleading that there was no discrimination intended. Now I was having fun!! 'Well I believe you are, could I have your name please as I will now have to consider reporting this matter' A few ummms and ahhhs followed and she promised that she would get someone more senior to ring me back tomorrow. I now await the next episode. Was I 'orrible??? Now to the next phone call from the RBL. They have offered as you know to complete the DLA claim, they now say that they will oversee the whole thing including representation if necessary!!! Wow.

Hi Rae, Lovely to hear from you again. I see that we are both burning the early morning oil! Can't sleep - too much going over in my mind - worrying as well. When will all this end? Got the docs in the morning - other half is dragging me, shame she doesn't listen to me when I tell her that she should sort herself out as well. This damn diabetes is now giving me the Urgggggh!! Feet are like burning coals and tried a walk today but had to give up halfway with upper leg pain!! Sorry to go on about my ailments - she would say I'm being selfish! How are you tonight? Writing is a darn good idea for you. Get the motivation girl!! Take care L

Thanks for the info. 13 eh? Did you manage to convince both the DLA and ESA 'medics' that your claim was genuine? I failed in my claim for ESA because (a) the ATOS morons decided so and (2) I have been told that I should go for DLA by the Royal British Legion charity, but after the work I am putting in re. my ESA Tribunal, I don't think I could cope with anything else on top. AND the thought of these interviews has now pushed me that much nearer the edge! The point is, as I have been told by RBL there is no legal obligation to go to these interviews as being over 60 before the initial claim was made last October. I have even printed off a copy of the Act and the Amending Regulations that clearly show this to be the case. But to no avail, all they are saying is - so what, if you want the benefit - you have to do something in return and genuinely want to work and be willing to take what is offered. I have even heard that they are now suggesting working for your self as an option and one friend, younger than me was told to work full time as a volunteer in a charity shop. He incidentally argued that because he found it difficult to be on his feet for any length of time, he would not be able to comply. The JC+ retorted that he was NOT ill and had already been certified as fit for work.

Hi Erika Yes that is her!! Last time she went according to the report from the GP (DBD370 N GPFR) was in May 2009. That was only because our GP telephoned her to go in as she was not happy with just handing out Co-Codamol 30/500 at the rate she had been doing. I don't know what happened as my wife would never allow me to go with her. Anyhow, nothing changed and she still gets them on prescription on demand with no further recourse to her. I've just noticed that on DBD385 they entered that she hadn't seen the GP for over three years!! Ummm somebody is telling porkies!! The actual truth is that the last time she went to the GP for a consultation and to discuss the remedies for her ailments was in 2005! Never mind, the best bit is on the DLA EMP Report - the 'doctor' wrote that he was 'manhandled physically out of the premises by the claimant and indeed suffered a grazed knee when he fell over a flowerpot' What I would have given to have seen that. My lovely wife, being of Irish stock is not a violent woman but she can put the fear of God in anybody that upsets her!!

Thanks Erika, Maybe that is why my wife had one this year as she is not at all common!!. They insisted!! But love the girl as I do and true to form she told the 'guy' after 15mins to get out of the house because she felt intimidated!! Gee I wish I had been there. I was banished to the shed for the duration of the assessment. All 5' nothing of her and she is the only person that frightens me!! Needless to say that she failed the claim for DLA on the basis that there was insufficient medical evidence. AND she is refusing point blank to be thought of as a liar by having to prove herself at a Tribunal. She is so honest - too damn honest and straight for her own good sometimes.

Greetings to you PF, yes that is correct - Royal British Legion, a long story why they are looking after me, ex services and all that - did put a full post on here a while back. Yes I am as confused as you are, that makes two so far! 2014 eh? well that will be a year to remember - 65 then! OK, they seem to know best so I'll just go along with them. Thanks for the support. And yes Hendo (not forgotten you) it's all in a form I suppose. Just don't fancy having to go through another appeal though, in the middle of one now for ESA and it's a right old nightmare!! Thanks to you both

Hi, I have had a meeting with the RBL today and they are strongly 'pushing' me to claim DLA. I have read in the paper that there is to be a new medical for ALL DLA claimants. I thought this was normal anyhow, as the people that I know of have all had home visits from ATOS in the past 2 years to assess them. Everyone failed for the same reason ESA claimants are failing - the assessment bears no relationship to what was said or done. Now if this is to be a widespread thing are we in for another mountain of cases going to the Tribunal? If that is the case I for one am not going to put myself through that scenario - had enough with the ESA one!!! ATOS seem to be getting everywhere including under my skin!!

Hi, I do seem to be having a bad time of it at the moment. I get one problem sorted and think life can't get any worse!! But it does - I'm getting to a stage of worrying just what the Postie will bring. Today has been a bad bad day! I have been on Pension Credit top up (after taking my ESA payment into account) for a couple of months. We moved home back in 2004 being the final time for us and took out a mortgage which would be paid off by the time I am 65 (in 4 years). Becoming ill has not helped and last December I had to give up my full time job. Anyhow, to reduce the monthly repayments we have changed it to interest only last year and there will now be a shortfall when I get to 65. (It has been a repayment mortgage up until December 2009). I made a claim for housing costs in the Pension Credit application. This morning I received a reply telling me that they would not pay ANY of the interest as they have decided that the mortgage was NOT taken out to purchase the property in 2004. What happened was that because the bank were too slow in getting the mortgage offer letter out, we were in danger of losing the house to another buyer. Our solicitor suggested that we try to borrow the money elsewhere for only a short period of time (in fact it was 6 weeks). I asked my father and he kindly loaned the money on the understanding that it was repaid out of the mortage advance. He didn't want any interest as it was a family matter. The mortgage came through and he was repaid in full. Because we actually owned the property seemingly outright without a mortgage for 6 weeks (land registry shows that there was no legal charge against it at the time of purchase) and it was not a bone fide loan/mortgage that I entered into with my father, the actual mortgage is treated as non allowable. Anybody any ideas on where I go from here please?

Ah so!!! me thinks this is good thing, this they do to us, me thinks we will have much grander club with sooooo many new and exciting members!! Me thinks we will have more happy chappies to talk to whilst we wait for big judge to decide our fate!! Many fanks Sorry one and all, I have now lost the b****y plot - I knew it would happen one day!!!!!