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Sand-Dancer0191

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Everything posted by Sand-Dancer0191

  1. Bloody freezing..if I didn't have other plans I would stay on computer8)
  2. "im not risking contempt of court for no one" Sorry I didn't mean it that way....more of a pointer when its avail. poss even a sticky
  3. You could also ask Orange and the DCA for letters of assignment..... the outstanding debt figure must be the same on both docs
  4. Any missold ppi and other insurances can be reclaimed. The interest would remain the same though.
  5. No time limit for PPI claims Claims for mis-selling come under the exclusions for: "mistakes, concealment and fraud" s.32 limitation act 1980. To justify the £20 and £10 it must be included within the agreement you signed. .Newer agreements do stipulate these charges
  6. "However I'm not bothered even if do locate me do and take the car, as the debt would then become unsecured and that would sill be the end of the matter as far as I’m concerned as I will still not be paying them a penny and do not care much about a CCJ on my file, and other then sending a few letters and asking for the money which they won’t get there is not much other action they can then take." That is a foolish statement to make!!! They could still enforce any outstanding finance or losses
  7. I agree with the caution argument...but as p1 has pointed out claimant / defendant is the differance as in Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry WATCHTOWER INVESTMENTS LTD.- and -PAYNE AND ANOTHER
  8. Hope this helps... CPR 31.14 Request I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim. Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored. Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents. 1) The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. 2) The default notice 3) The termination notice Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. As my CCA request was ignored you may use the £1.00 fee I enclosed with it, as payment for this request... If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you. yours faithfully
  9. Great link rebel 11 it appears they are quoting this part of the OFT 1272 3.6 The OFT considers that, so long as the creditor or owner provides a statement representing the state of the account as held by it, there will be compliance and the agreement will remain enforceable even if the account turns out to be inaccurate as judged against the terms of the agreement. The purpose of the obligation is to allow the debtor to understand what the creditor is stating is owed, a statement which the debtor can challenge, rather than requiring that the creditor or owner must provide a correct statement of the debt in fact due under the contract if the duty under these sections is to be satisfied. This is supported by the fact that the sections only require that the statement is made according to the information to which it is practicable for the creditor or owner to refer. Further, section 172(1) provides that a statement given under section 77, 78 or 79 is binding on the creditor or owner. This provision would appear to be unnecessary if the duty under these sections required a statement correctly stating the amount contractually due, as opposed to a statement of what the creditor or owner considers is due. Section 172(3) provides that where in court proceedings it is sought to rely upon a statement so given and the statement is shown to be incorrect, the court may direct such relief (if any) to be given to the creditor from the operation of section 172(1) as appears to the court to be just. If the agreement is unenforceable unless the statement was correct, this provision would also appear to be unnecessary. BUT .....they have ommited this point since Oct 2008 the creditor must provide a yearly statement and also regular Notice of Arrears (six monthly) without which they are not entitled to enforce any debt, and lose the right to claim any arrears that may have become due during the period of non-compliance.
  10. Have a read of this......... Quote: I should outline the salient provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Subject to exemptions, a regulated agreement is an agreement between an individual debtor and another person by which the latter provides the former with a cash loan or other financial accommodation not exceeding a specified amount. Currently the amount is £25,000. Section 61(1) sets out conditions which must be satisfied if a regulated agreement is to be treated as properly executed. One of these conditions, in paragraph (a), is that the agreement must be in a prescribed form containing all the prescribed terms. The prescribed terms are the amount of the credit or the credit limit, rate of interest (in some cases), how the borrower is to discharge his obligations, and any power the creditor may have to vary what is payable: Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, Schedule 6. The consequence of improper execution is that the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor save by an order of the court: section 65(1). Section 127(1) provides what is to happen on an application for an enforcement order under section 65. The court "shall dismiss" the application if, but only if, the court considers it just to do so having regard to the prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question and the degree of culpability for it. The court may reduce the amount payable by the debtor so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention, or impose conditions, or suspend the operation of any term of the order or make consequential changes in the agreement or security. 29 The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), [2004] 1 AC 816 Page 834 regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court "shall not make" an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127 (3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and 63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order. 30 These restrictions on enforcement of a regulated agreement cannot be sidestepped by recourse to a pledge or other form of security furnished in support of the debtor's obligations under the agreement. The security is not enforceable to a greater extent than the loan: section 113. Where an application for an enforcement order is dismissed, except on technical grounds only, or the court makes a declaration under section 142 that the agreement is not enforceable, any security provided in relation to a regulated agreement "shall be treated as never having effect": section 106(a). Property lodged with the creditor by way of security has to be returned by him "forthwith". i think the judgment of Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead in Wilson v First County Trust Ltd (No 2) - [2004] 1 AC 816 above sets out the requirements of what is needed before a court can issue an enforcement order
  11. If you are a business and would like more detailed guidance, download OFT1272 - Guidance on section 77, 78 and 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - the duty to give information to debtors and the consequences of non-compliance on the enforceability of the agreement (pdf 330kb). Should be read by these ***k heads
  12. The abouve quote was from lord nichols in the wilson/first county case in the supreme court. The option you have chosen is the one I would have gone for......IT WILL take time but it will be worth it in the end. Act now...and good luck
  13. Don't know that ........but would be interested if anyone else has that info
  14. I should outline the salient provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Subject to exemptions, a regulated agreement is an agreement between an individual debtor and another person by which the latter provides the former with a cash loan or other financial accommodation not exceeding a specified amount. Currently the amount is £25,000. Section 61(1) sets out conditions which must be satisfied if a regulated agreement is to be treated as properly executed. One of these conditions, in paragraph (a), is that the agreement must be in a prescribed form containing all the prescribed terms. The prescribed terms are the amount of the credit or the credit limit, rate of interest (in some cases), how the borrower is to discharge his obligations, and any power the creditor may have to vary what is payable: Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, Schedule 6. The consequence of improper execution is that the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor save by an order of the court: section 65(1). Section 127(1) provides what is to happen on an application for an enforcement order under section 65. The court "shall dismiss" the application if, but only if, the court considers it just to do so having regard to the prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question and the degree of culpability for it. The court may reduce the amount payable by the debtor so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention, or impose conditions, or suspend the operation of any term of the order or make consequential changes in the agreement or security. 29 The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), [2004] 1 AC 816 Page 834 regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court "shall not make" an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127 (3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and 63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order. 30 These restrictions on enforcement of a regulated agreement cannot be sidestepped by recourse to a pledge or other form of security furnished in support of the debtor's obligations under the agreement. The security is not enforceable to a greater extent than the loan: section 113. Where an application for an enforcement order is dismissed, except on technical grounds only, or the court makes a declaration under section 142 that the agreement is not enforceable, any security provided in relation to a regulated agreement "shall be treated as never having effect": section 106(a). Property lodged with the creditor by way of security has to be returned by him "forthwith". XXXXXXXXXXX You have a choice now.....Don't pay..Go to court..have it declared unenforceable OR reclaim the ppi / accident plan and the charges with interest from 2007...which should be a hefty payout even with the outstanding ammount taken out..debt cleared
  15. SAR welcome direct...a good sar is on the stickys by martin3030 also send a letter to put the account in dispute while this a/c is cleared up. check agreement/ppi etc and also check charges which can be reclaimed. I personally wouldn't make any offer at this stage
  16. OK this was a phone or online application with ppi and accident cover.Both can be reclaimed....but more importantly this agreement is unenforceable as per my last post. Dec 07 over 24 mths.....Is it payed off or not? To answer your orig question YES you can reclaim both ppi & accident plan Have you been Mis Sold PPI. (Some standard Conditions for PPI) a) Payment Protection Insurance cannot be made a condition of obtaining a loan. (This is the most common reason for mis selling) b) You are permantley resident within the United Kingdom c) You are Over 18 and Under 65 at the commencement of your loan, and you will not reach the age of 70 during the insured term. d) You are in Full time employment – Some policies define Full time employment as being working Over 16 Hours per week and that you have been in full time employment for at least 6 Months prior to the start date of the policy. e) Pre Excisting Medical Conditions may also Invalidate your Policy f) Some policies may cover if you are self employed.. Check your T & C first though. 1 You were not in work or self employed at the time of sale 2 You were told that you had to take the PPI out at the same time as the loan or not at all 3 You were not asked whether you had any other insurance which would cover the loan 4 You were not told you could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan 5 You were sold a policy which had age restrictions which you fell outside of 6 You were led to believe that Payment Protection Insurance was compulsory 7 You were told that you would stand more chance of getting the loan if you took the Payment Protection Insurance 8 It was not explained to you that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect you 9 You were pressured into buying the PPI 10 You paid upfront for the PPI but it was not explained that there were some PPI policies where you could pay monthly 11 Your PPI was an upfront premium and you repaid the loan early and received no refund 12 you increased your loan and the PPI was increased automatically 13 The Terms & Conditions of the small print were not fully explained to you
  17. Another snippet I saved... The Termination is key, because it means they cannot then fix the defective Default Notice, as by then there is no longer a live Agreement capable of having a Default Notice issued upon it. Termination just means the ending of the Agreement, so can take a variety of forms. ???????? will probably send a letter, assuming they have not done so already (search your home for that letter if you think they have already sent it), and the letter will say the Agreement is cancelled. Cancel/Terminate/End...all mean the same thing. Likewise, they can also Terminate by doing something that is not in keeping with there being a live Agreement. For example, if you had a Balance of £10k and had £500 of Arrears, then if they demand the full £10k Balance rather than just Arrears, then that is Termination. It is a clear signal that they regard the Agreement has ended, because the demand for the whole Balance shows they no longer regard you as having the Agreement benefit of being able to pay off the Balance stretching out into the future. This is important because s87/88 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out what a Creditor must do if they wish to Terminate a Regulated Agreement when the Consumer is in default of that Agreement (i.e. in Arrears or has done, or not done something the Agreement required). Read s87 and s88, and you will see what a Default Notice means, and why a Creditor must have a valid one before Termination if they wish to enjoy the benefits of s87...those being the right to take the next step, Terminate and/or demand early repayment of a sum only otherwise due in the future. If they fail to do the Default Notice and Termination stages correctly, then they blow their right to enjoy s87. That then limits them to claiming only what was actually due before Termination, such as the Arrears. Even then, the Arrears are only due if they have an original properly executed Regulated Credit Agreement. No Agreement, then even the Arrears cannot be claimed.
  18. Suggested SAR temp for Welcome. Thanks to postggi for this. Data Protection Compliance Manager Welcome Financial Services (or other Welcome Group company as appropriate) KINGSTON HOUSE CENTRE 27 BUSINESS PARK WOODHEAD ROAD BIRSTALL BATLEY WF17 9TD REMEMBER THE £10 POSTAL ORDER AND SEND RECORDED DELIVERY GOOD HUNTING [your address] [their address] [DATE] Data Protection Act 1998 Subject access request Dear Sir/Madam ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account) Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to my business with yourselves. Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my business with you. The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not linited merely to 6 years of historical information. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you. I require all information on details of all insurance products supplied by welcome financial services. This is to include the statement of means, statement of price, details of all insurance premium tax paid, and underwriting sheets. If mortage indemnity insurance has been added to the agreement, i require all details on who this premium was paid to, and who underwrites this insurance. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response. If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of an agreement you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists, the type of filing system or archive the originals are stored on. If it is the case that any of the requested documents can not be supplied because they have been destroyed,please indicate; 1.The date the document (s) was/were destroyed. 2.The method used for destruction. 3.The position of the individual/individuals tasked with destruction. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them. As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee. If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable. I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch. Yours faithfully, ***dont forget not to sign, send £10 postal order, send recorded, keep proof of postage**
  19. Just acknowledge the termination letter dated xxxx.OR do nothing. I believe its an unlawful termination as they still havn't complied with your cca request
  20. COPIED FROM THIS FORUM Dear Sir / Madam, CPR 31.14 Request I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim. Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored. Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents. 1) The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. 2) The default notice 3) The termination notice Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. As my CCA request was ignored you may use the £1.00 fee I enclosed with it, as payment for this request... If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you. yours faithfully
  21. As bb said ..report it to the court This may benefit you and hurt the bank....what a clanger they've dropped
  22. Since you have by your own admittance declared that you do not hold sufficient records to prove whether the original agreement even exists I must draw your attention to the Information Commisioners guidance on the filing of defaults with the credit reference agencies: "Accuracy of a lender’s default records 39 Records Any default record should be accurate. We normally expect a lender to keep records that are necessary to show an agreement exists and to support filing a default. We would also expect a lender to be able to produce evidence to justify a default record they had placed on a credit reference file. Not having any supporting records may indicate a breach of the data protection principle requiring personal data to be adequate, relevant and not excessive for the purpose for which it is processed." It is my opinion that in the (admitted) absence of any supporting records as defined by the ICO, your company stands in breach of the DPA 1998 and I require any adverse records published by your company to be removed forthwith until such time as you can meet the above criteria.
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