shock the system , change the rules , do not follow the standard procedures, As they know the standard letter off by heart , they playing the game , the game they know so well , why do you think no major success stories

I have one question , which I think is a important point , If legal proceedings are started for Secret Commissions , could the lenders still strike for possession of property ,? as an outstanding dispute ? I ask this as I have seen first hand the way G E work and have found themselves another loophole , I know we have visitors/guest on the site and do not really want to say what this loophole is as others will use it against us , put it one way 4 judges and 3 different Solicitors never realised this , But some smart a*$e barrister from London played this card , it worked and to be truthful it was a killer , I know 1st hand as used against us recently , it does not change nothing just pushed us back and waste of 1 year , but after a small rest we are ready to go again , but without all the requests , a defence will need to be put 100% from lenders , no more Mr Loophole , they used they last chance when we were playing by the rules with Protocol, lets hit them this time and hopefully after our experience of late , we feel like they is light at the end of the tunnel , and G E were snookered for so long , this time round we know how they will play ,

Hi all , seems like G E are good at keeping everyone at bay , I am ready to challenge them again , on this secret commission , forget the S.A.R requests or even expect to see a underwriters sheet, I have talked with a Solicitor and he put it as simple as this , DID YOU USE A BROKER ? YES DOES IT STATE ON YOUR AGREEMENT AMOUNT OF COMMISSION ?NO Then this is a Secret Commission Forget the S.A.R requests or even expect to see Unerwriters Sheet , Legal Proceedings can commence straight away without the need to adhere to Protocol , as if a Secret Commission You will not be saddled with any costs at all , and if you prefer to use a Solicitor You can claim back your legal costs , play them at they own game ,

Hi all , seems like G E are good at keeping everyone at bay , I am ready to challenge them again , on this secret commission , forget the S.A.R requests or even expect to see a underwriters sheet, I have talked with a Solicitor and he put it as simple as this , DID YOU USE A BROKER ? YES

I do not agree with your thoughts Andydd , if the interest rate is increased your lender has a duty to inform you 30 day before any changes take effect , so they can just increase the interest rate ?, which increases your monthly repayments , you are not notified and the extra costs per month are concealed and added to balance , its not hard to follow Andy , and easy to see this is not right

Andydd , you sign an agreement on monday , interest rate 8.3% , repayments £260 per month , first repayment 4 weeks from date of start of agreement , On the friday / 4 days after agreement is signed interest rate is dropped to 8.0% no notification ,so the repayments are set @ 8.3% and continue like this for 12 months then jump above the original contractual interest rate , the interest rate has increased 15 times , not once notified , interest rate reached 12.9% , and yes you guessed never notified , my monthly repayment never altered once and continued to be £260 , £260 was set at 8.3% , 12.9 = £370 , I was not given a option to increase my monthly repayments as I was not notified , the extra amount that 12.9% would equal was added to the outstanding balance and subject to interest , so in reality , this is breach of contract , as the agreement was for 300 months , to conceal interest increases and to add the extra amount needed to cover the monthly repayments to balance is wrong and stops the contract performance , as can not end after 30 months / debt not discharged

blurredFX , thanks for your reply , I am still looking into this , plus I have another concern , if you enter an agreement with lenders and payments are set from the interest rate (prescribed term) the interest rate is lowered before the first payment (resulting in lower payments) but payments are set at first interest rate , would this also be misrepresentation , I believe so , but all thoughts welcome ,

Yes I agree , what I did mean to say was if the APR is 35.26 , what would be the flat rate which is displayed on credit agreement? mine is stated as 12% , (APR) is also shown but when you go to a Loan Repayment Calculator , put in the balance and term , 12% as stated does not produce the figures in the agreement , payments are £163 per month , to get £163 per month and match other figures the interest rate quoted does not match 12% would equal payments of £111 20.31% charged would get the figures exactually as the same in the agreement ,.. If this is the case then I am lead to believe that the agreement would be voidable on 2 grounds 1st , Under the Misrepresentation Act 1967 also under Common Law , Mistake , opertive mistake from the beginning of contract , mistake in a term of the contract Before I go along these lines , I want to confirm my maths and hear others thoughts regarding the APR v Flat rate , thanks in advance

hi all , have a question , need the maths teachers , APR v Interest Rate 35.26 APR , would equal what ? interest rate ,.. thanks

Hi there again Ken , No problem at all ,hope it helps best wishes

I believe if the broker is now bust , then you can get full redress entirely from the lenders , as the mortgage broker involved has gone into administration here is a good link for you to look over , great read http://www.bridgingandcommercial.co.uk/newsstory?id=1111&type=newsfeature&title=important_county_court_decision_could_impact_on_lenders_and_brokers

Hi Kennyh, does not seem correct to me , my dates are before 14 january 2005 and we are making good head way with our counter claim against the lenders / G E Money , they are many ways to skin a cat , forget all the FSA's, OFT's, Information Com's absolute waste of time and effort , I believe in justice in the County Courts as it is proven itself overtime that many are running into brick walls contacting governing bodies , with no were to turn due to dates and regulations etc , I will dig deeper for you as we too had same problems , best wishes

I do not understand what you are asking ,.. DCA? you need to know who the guns will be pointed at before you go in blazing , if hidden commissions then best course of action is with the lenders , your agreement is with the lender , your payments are to the lenders , your problems should be addressed to the lenders , remember if a secret commission , then you can only make the agreement voidable by challenging the lenders hope this helps

Hi can anyone advise how to start a new thread , new forum set up has me puzzled, or better still direct to threads regarding annual statement of accounts , thanks

You could go after either as both accessory to the breach , Me personally would go after the lender , the broker would only be ordered to repay the Bribe , Were as with the lenders in your sights , you can make the agreement Voidable , which in some cases can see the borrower relieved of the burden of a flawed debt , plus depending on the amount of time the agreement has been in place , possibly a financal return , asyou will be in the same postion as if the agreement never took place ,

It will seem, at first thought, that certain agreements said to be void are not so in fact. For instance, as we shall see, an agreement may be void on the ground of mistake, or, in a few cases, because of the infancy of one of the parties; but, if the mistake or infancy is not pleaded in the action to enforce it, the parties will be held bound. Such an agreement, however, is just as void as an agreement to do something which the law forbids. The cause of nullity is latent, but this does not alter the character of the transaction. It is void if the defendant chooses to prove it so.29 If the defendant in these cases may, at his option, avoid the contract, or let it stand, there would seem to be a certain unreality in the distinction between void and voidable agreements; but this is not so in fact. In case of voidable agreements there is a contract, though it is marked by a flaw; and the party who has the option may affirm it in spite of the flaw. Where, however, an agreement is void, it falls to the ground as soon as its nullity becomes apparent. It is incapable of affirmance. Another distinction is in the fact that in case of voidable contracts innocent third persons, acting in good faith, may acquire rights thereunder, and thereby cut off the right to avoid it; but no such rights can be acquired where the transaction is void.*0

Hi I believe you will be right in thinking about getting the agreement rescinded, please read the below text , hope it helps Void, Voidable, And Unenforceable Agreements 7. A void agreement is one that is entirely destitute of legal effect. 8. A voidable contract is one that is capable of being affirmed or rejected at the option of one of the parties, but which is binding on the other. 9. An unenforceable contract is one that is valid, but incapable of being sued upon or proved. We have seen, and in dealing with the formation of contract we shall see more in detail, that certain requisites are essential, and, if they are absent, the contract is said to be void. By this it is meant that it has no legal effect whatever. Clearly, in such a case, there is no contract at all, and it is a misuse of terms to speak of it as such. A transaction or agreement cannot be void and be called a contract, so it is more accurate to say that the transaction or agreement is void. A voidable contract is not destitute of legal effect, but may be valid and binding. It is a contract that is capable of being affirmed or rejected at the option of one of the parties. It is binding if he chooses to affirm it, and is of no effect if he chooses to reject it. The other party has no say in the matter. Such is the case, as we shall see, with contracts into which one of the parties has induced the other to enter by means of fraud. The latter may repudiate the contract, or, if he sees fit, he may waive the fraud, and hold the former to his bargain. Think this say's it all , and like it say's "THE OTHER PARTY HAS NO SAY IN THE MATTER" GOOD LUCK

WANTED ~ G E Money's EMAIL ADDRESS / LITIGATION DEPARTMENT Can legal fee's be debited to my account ? whilst we are in the middle of Court proceedings , regarding the enforceability of the whole agreement , I was in the belief that legal fee's are covered by the losing party , and as the case is still under the Courts , how can they justify adding Legal fees to my account which will also be subject to interest charges ? And it is GE legal team who continue to request adjournments , making every excuse in the book not to answer concerns in the defence statement , The agreement will eventually be declared VOID , as constructed on Fraud/Bride , plus many other points /concerns that breach our contract I appreciate and understand , that they can add whatever charges or fees to my account as they wish , which will see the balance owed increase , but I believe that the balance regardless what it states will be corrected once agreement is declared VOID, As sure if Lenders are proven to be in the wrong then no legal fees should be added to my account anyway ,.. I am going to email Litigation plus the Solicitors who are acting for GE , The last time we were at court GE wanted the hearing adjourned on the grounds they have not recieved the defence, I proved in court that the defence was sent to them , plus the previous case adjourned 8 weeks previously , as only recieved defence a few days before our hearing , so to strike for legal costs for the attendence of they barrister , after they request adjournments on false grounds and can be proven , DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT TO ME , and I will be giving them a piece of my mind As not only should we not be in court as agreement is flawed BIG TIME, they lie to get the case adjourned , which increase the legal costs So lets just keep dragging it on , does not cost us nothing , as we hit the borrower each and everytime we go to court , we do not have to wait till final outcome , as we cover this in our terms in the agreement , Well they can continue to play games , but they are digging themselves a BIG hole

Great work Frettful , absolute great read and news , sure you will spread the word , as this covers unregulated agreements aswell , its about time we started hearing stories like this , and give all the hope to continue the fight again well done and thanks , we have the 140 in our defence so will be re-reading this again

Thanks for clearing that up Sparkie ,.. it does not really give much info regarding CPR.6 , I have read a good few of your posts and seem to have a good handle on this subject , well its something i need to learn as it will be used for disclosure in August , can not wait now for disclosure , and i think lenders will think twice about deleting any info , as no where on my agreement does it say i paid a broker's fee ,.. so removal of the secret commission will leave them wide open for attack and explanation , as these lenders do not deal with consumers direct and can only be approched by an independant broker ,.. plus i am looking into secret commissions regarding PPI ,..

Hi again Sparkie Just been reading the CPR 31.16 , and realised that this is used before court proceedings have commenced , so am I right in thinking that I would request under CPR 31.6 ? Standard disclosure Disclosure before proceedings start 31.16 (1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1. (2) The application must be supported by evidence. (3) The court may make an order under this rule only where – (a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings; (b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings; © if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and (d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to – (i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings; (ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or (iii) save costs. (4) An order under this rule must – (a) specify the documents or the classes of documents which the respondent must disclose; and (b) require him, when making disclosure, to specify any of those documents – (i) which are no longer in his control; or (ii) in respect of which he claims a right or duty to withhold inspection. (5) Such an order may – (a) require the respondent to indicate what has happened to any documents which are no longer in his control; and (b) specify the time and place for disclosure and inspection. Standard disclosure – what documents are to be disclosed 31.6 Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only – (a) the documents on which he relies; and (b) the documents which – (i) adversely affect his own case; (ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or (iii) support another party’s case; and © the documents which he

I personally would take this up with the finance company as they are an accessory to this breach , as their paid it to your broker , if you have all the evidence and the company invovled do not address this concern then I would start legal proceedings / small claim for amount of commission , and if a secret commission as you believe , I too would be looking to get the interest charged on the finance removed , And i believe you can elect to be in the same postion before the contract was made ,.. so screen cost of car or return the car and recieve back all monies paid well thats my thoughts sure someone with more knowledge will be a long to advise you the best way forward but do chase it up , best of luck

yes I think I am with you , but the underwriters sheet will be regarding the agreement but request will include to get the info for details on ppi policy ,.. so can be looked at as relisted for directions appointment ,..

I did request documents and info under this act , but they would not play ball , I will be getting the underwriters sheet regarding agreement as my concerns and points raised are secret commissions to broker ,.. a judge as said it will be ordered at next hearing and more or less the only way it will not be disclosed is if the lender agree's that my concerns are rightly so (hence no underwriters sheet needed) if denied then full disclosure ,.. i must say the judge did say be carefull in what you are likely to request,.. i have thought about that passage of thought over the last week ,.. I have hit them also for raising the interest (over 10 seperate time) not raising the monthly payments and just adding the extra to balance so account is constantly in arrears ,.. they would like to address this concern with a £7500 offer,.. as if interest never altered , then set at first interest rate amount owed £7500 less , which we will reduce from balance if you sign a condition form that this will be the end of matter's ,.. obviously i did not accept ,.. with disclosure so close and game more or less over ,... my agreement show's that i never paid a commission fee ,.. so who did ? as the broker was independant from GE , had to be as they do not deal direct with consumers ,.. so who paid the broker ,.. not me , and no mention of we might pay broker or any words to that effect , so pure secret commission and i have paid more then the bare bones of the loan , which includes a single payment ppi policy ,.. I will not let the bluff me Sparkie , no way , not when we are so close to a victorty over these sharks ,.. but i too will hopefully get data from insurers who i believe have washed they hands of GE Money , i will request full ppi policy data from lenders at disclosure hearing along with agreement underwriters sheet which will prove commissions paid , and if they wish to alter the doc's, then some explianing to do as they can not pass it off and say well you paid the commission ,.. as agreement say otherwise ,..

Thanks Sparkie ,.. will give it another read but sounds good to me , its just another point to pile pressure on my lenders , i have them on the rope's regarding secret commission's to broker , i have a disclosure hearing in august and looking to request all documents which will be damaging to the lenders , will the lenders also have a copy of the in's and out's of the policy I had? ,.. I have requested details from lenders regarding commissions from insurance providers , but not willing to disclose as no fidcuiary duty ,.. and have this in writing ,.. I now know this is not true and definately a duty to me as 3rd party provide the insurance ,.. again thanks for your thoughts as many do not seem to be looking at this angle , or unless i am that slow and can not find the threads best wishes & thoughts