I have just had a private message from someone who got a PCN in a similar situation outside Eastbury Primary School. Apparently they appealed and it was turned down. I am still waiting to hear from the council for a response to my appeal.

They said that they would respond within 3 months, and if they miss this deadline, I am considering making a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman for failure to respond within their deadline.

What do you think?

PS. I think it unfair that I was given deadlines of 14-days and 28-days to respond, whereas the council gives themsleves 3 months to respond.

On the 28th day, I submitted an online challenge to the PCN as follows:

There has been a procedural impropriety (described below) on the part of the enforcement authority.

(a) The photographs clearly show that my vehcile was not parked on school entrance markings.

(b) My vehicle was parked on a single yellow line at a time when parking is allowed.

Possible complications:

1. I moved 6 months ago - and only submitted my logbook for my new address a week ago - so the address on my appeal is different to the address that they wrote to me at (forwarded by Royal Mail). I wonder if they find that they issued the PCN incorrectly, that they will have me for taking too long to update my logbook?

2. Their online form said that I had to include a telephone number, but I just entered 01234567890 because I don't want them phoning me. I wonder if they'll tell me off for not putting in a valid phone number?

If you were in a CPZ no sign is needed for the yellow lines.

 

In any event some simple photos to show the fact that you were not on a zig zag but on a SYL will show that you did not commit the alleged contravention. A simple "the contravention did not occur" challenge is all that is required.

Just to let you know that ... it is a CPZ ... but the restriction is 1.30-2.30, which is not when the vehicle was parked! I am about to submit the "the contravention did not occur" message....

Get copies of all the fines and then dispute them all, maybe adding 8% county court allowance?

What is an 8% county court allowance?

I'm not sure if I'm brave enough, but will have in the back of my mind in case they get annoying.

Im well aware of how to deal with them ... on their rare 'visits' ...

How do you deal with them when they visit?

And thank you for forcing me to learn how to upload photos - this has also been the first time that I have used an internet based forum.

Only if you are sure you were not in a CPZ.

I will have to go back and double-check for CPZs, but I do know for certain that the cars on the other side of the road are parked legally, which is why I suspect it is not a CPZ.

I really appreciate the time and advice that you have give on this. Thanks.

Your photo 2 shows what I was attempting to describe above. Park over the words and that is a contravention at signed times.

Are are you saying the No Stopping on Entrance Markings sign invokes a Controlled Parking Zone, which automatically includes any single yellow lines. If so, how far does the CPZ extend, because there are yellow lines either side of both the sets of zigzags too?

If not, just to clarify, I haven't parked over the words, yellow zig zags look like this. (Link.) i.e. each set of zigzag markings includes words with zigzags at each end. There are two sets of zigzag markings on this road, each with words in the middle. Also, the yellow line (with the words) which link the two zigzags runs along the middle of the zigzags rather than along the edge of the road. My car isn't parked on either set of zigzags - which includes the words.

The sign in the photo should say something like this. (Left hand immage on link.)

Also sub-paragraph 22(3) of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (SI 2003/3113) states:

(3) The road marking shown in diagram 1017 or 1018.1 shall not be placed on a road on which is placed -

(a) the marking shown in diagram 1025.1, 1025.3, 1025.4 or 1028.2 (in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 650.1); or

(b) the marking shown in diagram 1027.1 in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 642.2A, unless there are times at which the restrictions to be indicated by the marking shown in diagram 1017 or 1018.1 apply and those indicated by that sign do not.

In any event some simple photos to show the fact that you were not on a zig zag but on a SYL will show that you did not commit the alleged contravention. A simple "the contravention did not occur" challenge is all that is required.

It is a bit weird that legislation relates zigzags to entrances (schools, fire stations, etc), whereas the PCN does not use the work "entrance".

Do you think that I should also mention the lack of sign linked to the single yellow line in case their reason for issuing the PCN "Stopped in a restricted area outside a school" includes both zigzags and single yellow lines that happen to be on school roads?

Photo 1: (showing car parked on single yellow line)

Photo 2: Just about showing that there are 2 separate school entrance markings (i.e. zigzags). Also, other cars indicate that it is not a CPZ.

Background: There is no sign indicating a parking restriction (as required, I think) by the single yellow line. (I wouldn't park on a yellow zigzag!)

Photo 1:

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y not i tinypic not tinipic

Thank you v much.

Use tinypic.com its simple, takes a few minutes and you dont have to waste time registering!!

Thanks for the advice. To be honest, all I could find on Tinipic.com was links to other websites.

I'll keep plugging away at flikr or keep looking for other options.

You should take some pictures and post them here as well.

First attempt! (Apparently the trick was to use a Guest Pass.)

Zoomed-in showing parked on single yellow - not part of the zig zag indicating a school entrance.

Zoomed-out, just about showing that there are two separate school entrances, each with zig zags. Also, there is parking on the other side of the road, so I suspect that it is not a CPZ.

Please help me with linking photos from flikr. (I have looked for the answer in the FAQs here and on Flikr.)

I clicked "share it" on Flikr, which gave me a link. I logged out of flikr and then clicked the link and it asked for a password. Does that mean the picture won't be accessible here on my thread?

If so, this might be obvious, but it is probably because I selected - don't share my photos. Is this the only way to proceed?

But, if I have to make my photo visible to all, then, what if I want to share photos about one thing with one forum, and photos about another thing on another forum, without necessarily linking the photos together (assuming that people can click on the link to the photo and then see all of my shared photos). I might be worrying a bit too much, but if someone can explain the way to go about uploading pics, I would be v grateful.

PS. Other users have asked me to upload pics!

I'll let you know what happens when I get a knock on the door.

I have uploaded photos to flikr.

Do I simply post them here by clicking on the photo button and then entering the web address of my photos?

But ... wouldn't this give you guys access to all my photos?

What is the secure/recommended way of uploading the photos?

some sign is that have since become withdrawn. you also have to check the updates since TSGRD http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/listofdrawingswithdrawnupdat4319

Lamma, the link didn't work for me.

But I did find this Traffic signs legislation

but ... I can't tell whether or not it is a summary of SI 2003/3113 or something different.

You should take some pictures and post them here as well.

I will try to post pictures - I think I read somewhere that I have to open a flikr account. Will try.

Bernie-the-Bolt: Thanks for the advice. I will keep it simple:

"The photographs show that the alleged contrevention did not occur."

May I ask one more question. Is a Controlled Parking Zone an area indicated by a sign as you drive into it - or is a controlled parking zone something else? I'm a bit confused about single yellow lines being allowed without a sign because how would one know what times parking was restricted?

I believe that when they do apply for a search warrant they almost always find a tv set. However, that might be because it is usually people who have a TV set that don't let them in when they come for a visit.

I don't have a TV, nor a tuner on my PC, nor do I watch live broadcasts on iPlayer. And ... I've had lots of letters from TV Licensing since I moved to a new property.

I'm also not required by law to respond to TV Licensing.

I'm also not required by law to allow them into my home ... without a warrant.

I don't respond to their letters out of principle, because about 10 years ago, I did write and phone, and the letters just kept on coming!

Part of me wants to stick up for myself and not let them in - but part of me doesn't want some sort of police record about a "warrant" having been served on my address.

So, do I give in, and let them in when they visit, or do I politely tell them to go away and risk the warrant?

Finally, apparently, my refusing them entry is in itself not sufficient cause for them to get a warrant, but what is.

I'm losing my nerve!

I have been looking through the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (SI 2002/3113)'[1], but I was after even more information!

1. Does anyone know if SI 2002/3113 been superseded by any legislation?

2. Also, SI 2002/3113 talks about the physical description of road markings and signs, and which signs go with which markings, etc.; but I would like to know which legislation actually covers the definition of being parked, so that I can see exactly what it says about being parked on yellow lines, etc. Is it simply the Highway Code or do you know if there is specific legislation?

Why?

I am planning to challenge a PCN, but want to be sure of my facts first.

Background: My PCN includes photos taken by a CCTV operator (?) 'served by post on the basis of a record produced by an approved device'! My car was parked on a single yellow line [2]. There were not any of the required 'no parking' signs [3] displayed by the side of the road. The confusion lies, because either side of the 'normal' single yellow line, there are two separate school site entrances, each of which have a separate set of yellow zig-zag lines, which are complete entities in themeselves as defined in [4]. The reason given for the PCN is "Stopped in a restricted area outside a school". I think the CCTV operator has seen all of the yellow zig zags and assumed that I was parked on one. For completeness, the signs next to school zig zags [5] clearly refer to 'entrance markings' [4]. Nevertheless, I wonder whether or not it is relevant that the PCN refers to being 'stopped ina restricted area outside a school' whereas the road markings and signs refer to parking restrictions on the 'school entrance markings'.

NB: I am not trying to get off a PCN on a technicality. I would never park on a school zig zag. My first thought when I got the PCN through the post was the embarrassment of having not realised I had been parking illegally outside a school. My second thought has been, "Wait a second, I can park there, can't I?"

Thanks for your comments!

[1] The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002

[2] Diagram 1017 in [1]

[3] Diagrams 637.2, 639, 639.1B or 650.3 in [1]

[4] Diagram 1027.1 in [1]

[5] Diagram 642.2A in [1]